Perfect Pass on an outboard

[Andrew9909]

Hey Ballers

 

Looking for some info on my Perfect Pass Digital Pro 6.5. I have one fitted to my 1996 Johnson 225 outboard. I love it...until recently when my marine mechanic decided to redo the mounts and now it doesn't work properly. Now when I switch it on, it auto tightens too much and pulls the throttle out of idle. The mechanic says I need to recalibrate the servo idle position in the set up, but I can't find that anywhere in the setup process. The Perfect Pass tech says I need to eliminate the cable showing where it connects to the throttle arm. In theory he's right, but I'm sure before the mounts were changed it was the same as it is now. And they are used to fitting to inboard engines only. Who's right?? Does anyone here have knowledge of a set up for an outboard? I've heard Greg Hind makes mods to run these units on outboards.

Some photos included to see what I've currently got.

 

Please help. My boat is sitting on the trailer during our southern hemisphere summer!!

 

 

[GregHind]

Interesting setup. How about a photo with the throttle at idle (in neutral)

[skihacker]

This is a bit of a guess but doesn't the pp servo auto tighten at key on every time? Maybe just needs a little more return spring on the throttle?

[GregHind]

The auto tighten should not be able to pull it past idle at idle setting on the hand throttle. There should be no cable showing at idle, the brass hex must be against the thread. Give us a photo at idle and I will help

[Andrew9909]

These are photos of the throttle at idle position. It sounds like I need to modify the bottom fitting so the brass hex touches the thread as suggested. This would make it work at idle and I guess would need an on water test to see if it ran ok with speed. What confuses me is that I am sure the servo used to anticlockwise turn first then clockwise turn during auto tighten. And there was always cable showing by the hex nut. Is there anyway to 'set' the idle position of the servo or is my memory bad and it just always auto tightens clockwise until the cable is tight? Many thanks for your replies!!

[Mateo_Vargas]

Wouldn’t the clockwise/anticlockwise thing be backwards in the Southern Hemisphere?

[GregHind]

That’s why it won’t idle, it’s dangerous as is. Don’t worry about the auto tighten or servo that isn’t the problem.

 

When your throttle is set to idle the engine should be physically forced to idle. It should not be able to be in any other position.

 

How did it look before the mechanic changed it all?

[GregHind]

I run PP on an Etec 225 which uses the same push throttle configuration as your engine. My setup is very different but I can see how your would work.

 

You just need to do 2 things.

1. Close the gap so no cable showing

2. idle on your hand throttle must force the engine throttle to idle. No help from PP, servo or anything else. It must physically force it to idle.

[Andrew9909]

Thanks Greg.

 

I think I'll modify it tomorrow so no cable will show. I'm pretty sure it should fix the problem. Unfortunately I can't remember what the set up looked like before the 'up grade' . I've had the boat for 10 years and it's worked perfectly so I've not paid much attention to it. The mechanic decided to 'fix' it without me asking him too. I'm pretty sure he's not seen a set up like this before so his advice hasn't helped at all!

Much appreciate your expert advice.

I'll let you know the result!

 

[Andrew9909]

Finally managed to get a day to test my new set up. Works perfectly with no cable showing now. Thanks very much @greghind for your advice.

[H2oskierh]

@Andrew9909 @GregHind I really appreciate the posts with pictures of an installation of PerfectPass on a Johnson outboard. I have a 1989 Barefoot Sanger with a 200 HP Johnson outboard that is similar to what you have shown. Your post inspired me to take a stab at doing my own retrofit with a reasonable amount of confidence that it would work out. I am an engineer and I ended up going a different route with my installation for a few reasons.

 

1- I did not want to affect the behavior or connections to the throttle linkage in any way.

2- I did not want to add a spring in such a way that would affect throttle feel or cause the throttle linkage to want to pull the throttle control closed.

 

I had a custom linkage created by a local machine shop (aircraft aluminum part shown in pictures). Cost=$80 US

 

The rest of the bits and pieces that I assembled onto the linkage are brass and stainless parts that I was able to find at a local hardware store. Cost=~$20 US

 

I wanted to post the pictures of my installation so that other people might benefit.

 

 

 

 

[GregHind]

@H2oskierh thanks for the pictures. Do you have a before shot? What are you buoy times like?

[H2oskierh]

@GregHind The linkage on my motor was the same as Andrew9909. There was a black plastic piece where I installed the custom linkage. Refer back to his picture. (Copied below)

 

 

I do not have a Z Box, so I don’t think I have any way to know buoy times? Most of the lakes in my area with courses are man made and none of them allow outboards. I am primarily using PerfectPass for free skiing. Most of the people I ski with are used to skiing/driving inboards with speed control. I am the odd ball that grew up skiing on salt water with outboards.

[buechsr]

if it doesn't matter, then its irrelevant, but you don't need Zbox for buoy times, just star gazer, which it appears you have. Just need to map course(s). Glad it worked out!

[H2oskierh]

@buechsr thanks, I see that now. I should have pulled the manual back out. It’s not a screen I had stumbled across yet. I am still getting familiar with some of the menus and settings.

[Parkemnz]

Hi, I'm just looking at fabricating a PP setup for my Yamaha push type cable system. When PP lets cable out to increase speed do you keep advancing the throttle to account for this? Seems like there is still a fair amount of forward throttle management involved.

[WoodySkier]

I think the solution is to buy an inboard with Zero Off

[Fast351]

@Parkemnz Perfect Pass does not ever "increase speed". It reduces throttle from where the hand control is set. Basically when you pull your skier up, you push the throttle past where it would need to be for the set speed. Perfect Pass increases the distance from the end of the throttle cable to the throttle blade in order to decrease the amount of throttle commanded from where the hand throttle is set.

 

[Fast351]

BTW, cool setups on both these outboards! Well done!

 

[Parkemnz]

@fast351 thanks for the reply, I understand what you're saying, but when PP decreases speed on these outboard set ups I'm anticipating the hand control will move? so if an increase in throttle is necessary I'm assuming the hand control will need to be pushed forward by the driver. The DD boats I've driven have only required the throttle to be at full with no other input other than PP, hence my question.

[Jibbo]

@Parkemnz for a Yamaha you will need to create a bell crank mechanism for the PP throttle cable to still be able to pull on one end of the crank while the other end pushes the Yamaha throttle. We have had one on a Flightcraft with a 175 Yamaha and worked great.

[Parkemnz]

thanks @jibbo, so the PP cable would be on the opposite side to the throttle cable (unlike the systems above)? Did the driver still need to continually advance the hand control to maintain speed?

[Jibbo]

@Parkemnz it worked like any other PP once the bell crank was used for the throttle. Put the throttle down and leave it.

[GregHind]

@Parkemnz Yamaha & Evinrude throttles take a bit more getting your head around. They both work the same (see the photos in this thread). No the hand throttle does not move.

 

It can be done with a bell crank or as per the photos here.

[ALPJr]

Super ingenuity in this thread. Maybe someone can post video of the boats running?

[Parkemnz]

thanks @greghind, have it all mapped out, now I just need to build it and test it.

[Parkemnz]

So, it looks my modification works, the brackets aren't pretty, but function over form in this case, tested it in the driveway in RPM mode and it seems to be behaving as it should.

[BC_Skier]

Agree that these are all really cool setups.

I have a 1993 Ski Brendella Barefooter with a Suzuiki 225 on it and had to go another route as well. Previously posed in the Skiing Behind Outboards thread that popped back up this spring. https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/365633. But since this popped back up I will post here too.

 

I could physically not find a spot under my motor hood that had enough space to mount the Servo and figured that even with a super long servo cable i would still have to make some kind of bracket under the hood anyways. So i bought a second short throttle cable and made a simple sliding bracket to put inline and mounted everything behind my back seat.

Spring below the short throttle cable to the outboard is to help close the throttle when the perfect pass backs off due to the extra resistance created by the bracket and cable

 

Zip tied it to a spot that kept it aligned as best as possible to the original cable path

 

Mounting location of the servo motor.

[buechsr]

How are you outboarders getting the RPM signal? Reason I ask is that I have a bad signal at the dash on a Malibu (It will read correct for a while then go haywire, then go to 0). Yes I've inverted the signal, and I've already bypassed the factory harness so now using the 3 wire rpm harness not typically needed on Malibu. in any event, been told last resort is to pull the rpm signal from the engine. Where would I do that? At the coil?

 

Thanks!

[VONMAN]

When I put PP Star Gazer Wake S in my 2015 Mercury 200 Pro SX it was a easy install. The only hard part was finding a place for the servo under the engine cover. Cable connection was easy because Mercury uses the same cable for both outboards and Inboard outboards. So when I ordered my system I ordered a Mercury V-6 I/O 200hp application for my 200hp V-6 2 stroke outboard. Also deep in the sub-menus you can set it to a 4-stroke V-8, V-6, I-4 or a 2-stroke V-8, V-6, V-4. Pick V-6 2-stroke and you are done.

Servo under the engine cowl, Gage head on the I/P, control module under the dash and antenna on top of the dash. Easy Peezy, and it works great. Overall boat times are +/- .03 max.

[BraceMaker]

@buechsr Tach feeds are usually from the coil neg post on old inboards, hei will have a separate tach output. But many outboards use magnetos due to a lower charge output from not having a true alternator.

 

This means many outboards you take the signal from the stator. Usually tach signal is color coded grey and from a stator it may be a yellow wire with a gray stripe but youll want to reference your manual for that information.

 

Usually there is a terminal block, the yellow gray will come in and a gray wire will go off from this to the loom and engine harness as a tach signal then that yellow gray feeds the rectifier.

 

What you describe could easily be a charging issue too like a bad stator dropping off, still have voltage when the tach feed goes out?