New CG Fin from Denali

[Beeker]

Went skiing today with my ski partner @vonman (Ernie). After seeing him ride my 68" Quest with the CG fin, I stood in the boat pondering if I should take it for a ride or not. Being that i was happy with the standard fin so I thought. I did give in to Ernie and said yes I will give it a go. It was set up as he stated above. My reaction immediately after my first ride 28 off with a pumping fist in the air then pointed at Ernie and said simply WOW!! 32 and 35 off was just as AMAZING. Hit the turn, easy to keep speed, back to the handle with nice angle and away you go like you are hooked to the water, getting wide and maintaining a tight line has just become way way easier for me. What a huge confidence boost and just flat out fun, say hi to my new found friend the CG fin!!!

[bradb]

Adam’s

What is the wait time for a CG fin?

[AdamCord]

@bradb should be less than 2 weeks. We burned through the first batch in a hurry and the second batch is in production now.

[Roger]

Make sure you put the center screw in. A skier in a tournament at Palm Bay this weekend lost the entire fin on the edge change into 3 ball. Never saw a slalom ski side slide like that before :o She had a rather abrupt dismount after about 20 feet of side slide (she's okay).

[BlueSki]

I put the fin on yesterday at the stock long-shallow settings, less 0.050” in DFT in my Vapor. I took two sets and skied to my tournament PB. I loved the space that was created before the buoy, and further, the much more dramatic feeling of upswing. I always felt more of an “outswing,” but this was more of an upswing feeling because I was so wide and early. You can have my Denali fin when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

[BobF]

ok, ok, take my money already! Can not wait to try this in my ARC.

[carlm6298]

Agree with Bluesky.....fun!!!!! Thanku so much for a grt product

[Booze]

@AdamCord or @adamhcaldwell

What's the difference between the the c65-specific CG, and the 'universal' or 'goode' fin?

Thickness, hole pattern?

[AdamCord]

@Booze the pattern at the top of the Denali version is a little different than the standard shape to suit our fin block. It’s not difficult to modify a Denali fin to fit in a normal fin block. You normally just need to notch the top back corner and maybe take a little off the front of the fin where it hits the fin block.

[jipster43]

I found my new fin waiting for me when I got home on Monday (thanks @AdamCord and @adamhcaldwell !) and gathered up the courage to install the beast this evening. I am an absolute amateur with fins. I seem to torture myself once a year and apparently this is one of those times.

 

I have the fin installed, but my rear adjusting screw doesn’t come anywhere near the fin. Is this normal for this fin, or do I need a longer screw? I have a Mapple 6.0 if that means anything. All the numbers are “pretty close” to where I had my stock fin, but I am unable to find a tutorial on how to shorten my fin length or how to decrease my dft.

 

It would be pretty awesome if the Denali guys could make a video with step by step instructions on how to replace and adjust the fin. The current youtube selection is not idiot proof enough for the likes of me!

 

I have all the set screws tightened down, so I’m assuming it’s safe to ski on - don’t worry! I’ll take video to document any excitement caused by user error.

[jipster43]

After countless attempts to get a repeatable measurement for my dft, I am more comitted than ever to purchase a Denali when they come out with a 65” ski. All the other measurements are pretty straight forward, but that dang beveled tail is a bugger for the caliper challenged.

[Chef23]

@jipster43 if it is tight I am sure it is safe to ski on. If it feels okay on the pull out and turn in you should be fine. I look forward to the video just in case.

[JC McCavit]

@jipster43 I think that is normal, I have the same issue with the rear set screw for DFT not touching the fin on two different skis each with a different fin block.

[Than_Bogan]

@jipster43 Firstly, as I've noted previously, the CG fin is not very sensitive to even hundredths (much less thousandths), so if the numbers are "about right" you should be fine.

 

The rear screw does not hold anything in place, and in fact I purposely remove mine from the block and stick it in my caliper case. If I leave it in the ski, it may eventually back out and be lost. But it's quite helpful when making changes, so I keep it handy with my caliper.

 

I'm using a variety of prototype components, and sometimes testing "wacky" setups, so I also went and bought a longer screw for the back. Since I don't leave it in there, I just got a super-long one that is assured to reach even if I am testing DFTs of 1.3" (and that is not an exaggeration). As a minor bonus, removing it also prevents galvanic corrosion (but the other steel screws in an aluminum block still experience that).

 

Such a set screw is a fairly standard component. I'm nearly sure I got mine at Home Depot.

 

Also, you can get them at my favorite online store ever, BoltDepot:

 

Set Screws

 

Perhaps someone can remind us of the thread size, but if not I'll eventually look it up and edit this post.

[Than_Bogan]

Aside about terminology: In terms of the component names, the two top screws and the rear screw are "set screws." These aren't used to hold anything in place, but rather to make it easier to get minute changes by turning large turns of the hex wrench into tiny movements.

 

The three side screws are the ones that do all the holding. If replacing those, they are known as "socket caps."

 

Socket caps

[BraceMaker]

@Than_Bogan - purple low strength thread locker will do a great job of preventing that corrosion with out the difficulty in extraction that blue and red cause.

 

It prevents galling too on stainless to stainless applications such as stainless insert nuts in bindings like wileys

[Chef23]

Just the fact that the fin isn't very sensitive to fin changes makes it attractive to me. It takes me forever to adjust my fin and I struggle to repeatedly get the same readings. Something that if you got it to within 5/1000 would be nice.

[Ed_Johnson]

@Booze ... So have you tried the Mini-Wing yet and what were it's results ??

I am getting ready to put a Mini-Wing Ventral on my CG Fin today. The regular wing seemed like it had a lot of drag, even at only 7 degrees.

 

[AdamCord]

@jipster43 yeah some brands have slightly different DFT positions on the fins so you may need a longer set screw or you may not be able to use the DFT set screw. Luckily fine tuning is so 2017.

[tjm]

@MattP where did you end up with your settings?

[Drago]

Again, the long link makes this unreadable

 

[Than_Bogan]

I thought the LL issue was fixed weeks ago!

 

I'll try to fix those today.

[Bill22]

@Than_Bogan the long link did get fixed but not the extra long link. Seriously, not joking.

[Than_Bogan]

Dammit how did I travel to 1995?

 

Anyhow, fixed (I hope).

[JC McCavit]

The longer DFT set screw will not work in my situation, the notch in the back of the fin is forward of the allowable range a set screw can move. But as others have said, the set screw is not necessary, but I would add it's a nice luxury when setting DFT. I'm positive the Adams will improve the design after they recieve feedback from the first adopters.

[Than_Bogan]

Something limits the travel of the set screw? On the Denali fin block there are only threads, so a long enough one can go as far as you want.

[JC McCavit]

@Than_Bogan - Yes, travel is limited by the clamp that holds the fin. The back of the CG fin sits in the clamped area infront of the open space seen in this picture with a stock fin. I will post the same picture with the CG fin tonight.

 

 

[Bill22]

 

 

@JC McCavit it looks like this one. My set DFT screw just touches my CG fin.

 

Edit: picture taken before I snugged the screw down.

[JC McCavit]

@Bill22 - Thanks for posting that picture. My fin is real close to touching that set screw. I am back .035 from recommeded and the back of the fin is still in the area the set screw can not reach.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@JC McCavit mine is right at the limit where the set screw is bottoming out against the clamp and I thought if I need to go forward I could use a small nail or piece of metal between the set screw and fin to push it forward as needed.

[JC McCavit]

I have no complaints, love my CG Fin. I just wanted to note that future design change should include leaving a little more metal in the back notched area of the fin.

[Than_Bogan]

Oh wow I am dumb. Of course there is a limit imposed by the clamp.

[tap]

You can always just file the inside of the fin block down a bit to expose more of the tail end of the fin. Keep in mind that Denali is trying to accommodate every other companies' fin block, not super easy in an industry with no defined standards.

 

On another note, that style of fin block in the pictures is wonderfully simplistic in design, but not terribly robust. It has a design flaw that can result in a loose fin. If you're swapping fins in and out you should also check to make sure you're actually clamping the fin and not the set screws. Because the set screws are in the slot, if the machining tolerances drift out of favor you'll end up clamping the screws and not the fin. To check, make sure your set screws turn freely after you have your fin clamped tight. If you can't freely turn your set screws then you're not fully clamping your fin and it may want to move. If this is a problem just remove the set screws altogether right before you fully tighten down the clamping screws. I believe the CG fin is on the thicker side of life so this should not be a problem, but super easy to check so might as well. I've actually seen this a few times with normal stock fins.

 

And while you're at it, file down the sharp tip of your set screws to allow your fin to slide along the set screws instead of the set screws diggong into the fin. I have no idea why skis come with cupped (sharp) style set screws, ball points would make so much more sense.

 

 

[Weappa]

Kind of tough to take a file to a new $150 fin.

[jipster43]

My original fin numbers were:

DFT = .797

Length = 6.825 (tips)

Depth = 2.478

 

My CG fin numbers are:

DFT = .772

Length = 6.999

Depth 2.5

 

I’ve been banging my head against 14 meters for a few years now. I run it but inconsistently. I tend to come off the handle too soon. Just to give you an idea of my skill set.

 

I immediately felt comfortable with the fin settings. Nothing felt funky - it just felt fast! It makes a very cool humming sound - almost sounds like the roar of a crowd! When I came into 2 ball (my off side) @14 meters, it literally felt like I was on the 18 meter line. My ski (Mapple 6.0 65”) glided better and felt faster but still turned at least as well as it had with my previous fin - possibly better. And no crazy crashes to report. As long as I keep my elbows pinned to my vest out to the buoy line, I feel like this fin will help get me skiing 14 meters consistently by the end of the season.

 

Thanks Denali! I’m definitely happy with this purchase. Oh! Yes. My rear set screw worked its way out and is sitting at the bottom of our pond. Good riddance!

[Steven_Haines]

@AdamCord @adamhcaldwell just wondering what the time frame for delivery is on the fin and wing for a Radar?

[Ed_Johnson]

Just finished testing the CG Fin on the NRG, EVO, and Vapor Pro. Without question, it made every ski better. Biggest effect was on the NRG, and this will be my main ski now of the three.

Some overall conclusions are that the standard wing added to much drag. Not so bad on the EVO or Vapor, but significant on the NRG. Switched to a Small Ventral Wing and the ski came alive and equally as fast as the EVO, which was the fastest of the tree. It also made the NRG equal to the Vapor as far as less effort.

After numerous settings from short/deep to long/shallow on all three skis, two conclusions really stand out. 1st, with the CG Fin, there are NO bad settings. 2nd, tune your ski to the best it can possibly be with the standard fin/wing. Then set the CG Fin at those same settings with the smallest wing you can find. I even added 2 washers on my final setting with the NRG to give it killer onside turns. I replaced my small Ventral, because of it being so low on the fin, made it a little nervous when the ski was flat after running the course and waiting to pull out at the end. Hunted left and right, and a little unnerving. I used a straight mini wing and that problem was solved, just running 5 degrees.

I believe the Adam's have really hit a home run with this fin, and I thank them for that !!!

 

[sfriis]

@Ed_Johnson thanks for sharing - what is “small Ventral”?

[BobF]

Patiently awaiting arrival of the CG fin like a kid at Christmas...

 

@Ed_Johnson - I plan on using my current settings for the regular fin and transferring to the CG. Did you leave the dft the same as well?

[Steven_Haines]

The dft seems to be what everyone is talking about. Moving the fin back or reducing dft calms down the ski?

[Ed_Johnson]

@bf ... Slowly moved DFT Forward and is now at the most forward setting I can get .790. It really turns well in that position, just like the standard fin did.

 

@sfriis ... If you look at the picture Booze posted on page seven of a Mini Wing, a Ventral is the same wing, but the wings are angled down about 30 degrees, to reduce drag. Originally sold by Chet Raley and later by Goode. Worked really well on a standard fin position, however, it sits to low on the CG Fin. The straight Mini Wing works great though set at 5 degrees.

 

 

[bradb]

Where can I find a straight mini wing?

[Ed_Johnson]

@bradb... From Schnitz.. http://www.schnitzskis.com/finswings.html

 

 

[JC McCavit]

Has anyone had the opportunity to try the Denali S-wing on a non Denali ski with the CG fin, and if so, how big in comparison to a standard wing is the S-wing?

[Wish]

They are not hard to make from a standard wing.

[tjm]

@Ed_Johnson So what were the settings you ended up with on the vapor? and size ski?

[DW]

Or to @Wish comment, not hard to make. Vise, drill, file, grinder / sander, sheet of stainless.

[Drago]

.... tap, special short stainless bolts, chamfer bit....

[Ed_Johnson]

@tjm ... I believe the Vapor settings were 6.980, 2.450, .790 and 9 degrees, with stock boot settings for a 68" ski.

The CG Fin just did everything a little bit better using those settings. Nothing dramatic, just smother.

 

[customski]

I've got the CG fin on an earlier model Denali and very happy with the improvement.

I had a prototype CG fin also off the Denali which now fits in a D3 fin box, took meat off the front mainly and also some off the rear where it slots in. So if you can only find a Denali specific fin, rest assured its not too hard to make one fit in other brands.

Looking forward to dusting off the D3 with the new fin!