New CG Fin from Denali

[Ed_Johnson]

@bf... EXACT same settings includes DFT.

 

[bhs]

Fin arrived last night and I se my XTR up to Goode factory with the exception of the DFT.

6.760

2.501

.673

 

and here are my observations Than....

 

What I don't like...

 

This is not a Denali issue and I don't think they could change this and make the fin work for all the brands but, because of the way the top of the fin is cut, the set screws on my Goode fin block are of no use. I am set screw dependent and it made it really hard to set up the fin.

The other issue is the old fin was .095 and the new fin is .088 thick. The thinner blade slides easier in the clamp. Again making it more difficult, for me, to set up. This is not a knock on Denali, its just on observation from someone who struggles to set up a fins.

 

What I like...

 

I struggle keeping the handle in off the second wake out to the buoy as I tend to load/over turn at the ball. I went out an ran 22 and 28 with more space before the ball and it felt like the ski and handle just stayed with me. When I went to 32 I over turned 1 and 3 but i got right back on the handle with plenty of space before 2 and 4. I wasn't punished for my mistakes. It really changed the ski! I only had time for a short set but I look forward skiing on it some more.

 

Another observation, the ski hunts on the glide after the pull out. this is something new and it was a little unsettling as it was twitchy.

 

More tip?

 

[Than_Bogan]

@bhs I probably would give it another set. Twitching may just go away as your body figures out the place to stand.

[BobF]

Interesting observation on the fin in the D3 clamp. Was trying to shorten to 6.830 per Bruce's advice. With my current dft, I can only get it down to 6.870. The top of the front fin cutout seems to be hitting the clamp's front tightening screw. Will probably notch the top of the fin at some point, but for tomorrow's sunup set this is it.

 

Update: Much better with less tip! Now at 2.516 and 6.870. Feeling a little narrow offside at my hardest pass (could be me - today is 7 days in a row). If the weather holds out, going to try shorter and a little deeper for a coupla sets.

[skiep]

Got my fin yesterday. Mounted it to my new 67"Connelly GTR 6.823 2.530 .750 8 deg WOW!

[jimbrake]

Installed my new CG on my D3 EVO last night. Had to grind down the back tab and a tiny bit of the front tip (the portion that is up inside the ski) to get it to fit into the D3 fin block. Got it in, set it to same settings I have been running on my stock D3 fin, and will test tonight. I've been battling my start at 35 all year. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's the opposite of great. I expect I'll run 38 tonight.

[A_B]

The eagle has landed. Skied a set with it last night. As desired, it made the big 69” ski turn a whole lot better and held angle across the wakes. Running deep and short setup a fuzz back from stock.

[bhs]

I just read Bruce Butterfield's comments about the wing on a CG fin in another thread and now I am wondering if I have to much wing. I am using the standard Goode wing at 9.5. Any thoughts before I try and get two sets in tomorrow?

 

 

[BlueSki]

Just have your gauges and be prepared to reduce the wing a degree or so between sets. I found it to help like many others here but I was 5 or more sets in before making the change and was still ecstatic for the first 5.

[JAS]

Skiing 2018 Vapor ‘68. Setting are deep/short . Set up CG same as existing minus .03 dft. Mini Schnitz foil@5

Onside noticeably sharper with snap, offside is slower with less tip engagement. Overall feels like more drag

 

Which way to go with adjustments? 61 degree water

[AdamCord]

@JAS try bumping the fin forward to where you were before if you’re going to use the smaller wing

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@bhs you will know on your first gate pullout if you have too much wing. Have a screwdriver in the boat and don't be afraid to eyeball a wing angle reduction on the fly.

[A_B]

I am running a self-modified medium size wing that has the trailing edges turned up.

Normally at 9 and using 7 intitially. Felt prettty decent.

 

Used the caliper ruler against the bottom of the ski as a spacer for the wing angle gauge.

 

[BuoyChaser]

LFF On 2019 67” Vapor 67” so was at 6.870 2.505 .770 9deg and on CG went with 2.502 6.881 0.740 8.5deg as it was borrowed did two sets in 78-85deg water. Felt immediately glide on 0 ball, stayed on outside edge like never before. One ball tip stays down and snappy turn. Anxious for mine to arrive.

[jimbrake]

LFF on 67 D3 EVO. 6.94, 2.45, 0.74, 7 degrees standard wing. Ditto what @BuoyChaser said - one ball tip stays down great and I got out of that side fast. My offside 246 was similar, but less consistent. Just a little tougher to control on that side with more ski in the water. Will probably back out some tip. Love the onside. Made it feel foolproof. Which is nice.

[BuoyChaser]

My order# is 289 still waiting for arrival, friends who were #281 were delivered on 09/04.

[AdamCord]

@BuoyChaser we’re slowly getting better at this. The second batch went out last week and the third batch just arrived from the machine shop so we can start getting those sent out.

[Bdecker]

@BuoyChaser - hands off my fin! Just 4 sets on it so far but I like what I’m feeling.

[BuoyChaser]

@Bdecker better check your fin before each round at the New England Slalom Championships tomorrow in Wolfeboro NH especially when you taste PURPLE .

. . looks pretty nice on the 2019 Vapor as real men ski NEON http://www.usawaterski.org/rankings/View-TournamentsHQ.asp?pvar=TourInfo&TourID=19E023&olrds=disabled&rg=1&sl=on&tr=on&ju=on&wb=&ws=&wu=&bf=&kb=&hy=&sExclude=no

[HighAltitude]

Adam,

I'm number 233 and haven't received mine yet. Any idea what's going on? -Marc

[AdamCord]

@HighAltitude looks like USPS is just being slow. PM me Monday if you still don't have it.

[Wish]

Last Mon being a holiday may slow things a bit with shipping in process I would guess.

[phauswirth]

Order #229 got mine on Thursday

[Steven_Haines]

es muy bueno!

[mbabiash]

So I tried the CG fin on my EVO for several sets. 7 degrees was awful. 5 was the ticket. Same fin numbers that were on the original set up.

It’s definitely interesting. Faster cross course but shuts down very fast too.

I feel like this fin took away from the greatest attributes of the EVO.

With the CG fin the ski turned really hard and had great angle. Almost too much but held that angle really well. What I like about the original fin is that it would turn a little slower but build angle late. Maybe for a shoreline skier this would be beneficial but at 22,28 and 32 it was too much.

[Midvkski]

68" 2018 Vapor - 2.50, 6.86, .777 CG fin settings radar wing at 8 deg. overall ski was stuck in the water fantastic in the turns, but really felt too much drag and had to work really hard to get across course. Went to 5 deg on the radar wing the next set still had some drag across course. Next time out will be with wing at 7, .785 to try something and get it to free up. Thoughts?

[AdamCord]

@mbabiash @Midvkski try forward and shorter to free the ski up. I’d suggest starting at .020” of each.

[S1Pitts]

@AdamCord and all ballers. I am currently @ 0.880dft and really enjoying what I am feeling and the way the ski is performing. What is the furthest forward that has been used and is there a cross over point where things get crazy? Thanks

[Than_Bogan]

@S1Pitts Nope. I've been over 1.1. Totally fine if other parameters work with it.

[Than_Bogan]

@AdamCord You'd send @mbabiash forward? Isn't he describing an over turn and needs some resistance to that? I would have suggested back or more-so longer based on my read of his symptoms.

?

[AdamCord]

@Than_Bogan adjust to get speed/load right first, adjust for the turn second.

[thager]

@AdamCord Physics wise, what does moving the fin forward do?

[Drago]

Brings the tip up/ water will break further back . Speeds the ski up, more so into on-side turn

[block]

@AdamCord I am skiing on a 67" Pro Build Senate. My CG is set @ standard settings -.30DFT. Binding 30 1/2 depth - 2.465, Length - 6.960, DFT - .775 - .30=.745, I am Left foot forward.

The ski feels good but tends to over turn on my on side (1,3,5) especially as the line gets to -35. @2,4,6, is great.

Should I change my settings or just work harder at being patient, letting the ski come under the line w/o pulling my arms in.

 

Johnny

[AdamCord]

@block when you say the ski over turns do you mean it feels like the tail is sliding too much through the whole turn, or is it more like a late/hard/abrupt finish?

[block]

@AdamCord not really sure. The approach to the buoy is really , then at the finish the ski goes farther than it needs to go, i pull my arms in to get tension and it hesitates and goes.

I don't think it is sliding too much through the whole turn. Maybe just a bit aggressive at the finish.

 

Thanks,

Johnny

[AdamCord]

@block try moving the fin forward .03” to where your radar fin was. I think with radars at least, pulling the fin back may be unnecessary.

[B_S]

Hi @AdamCord , are the Denali fins shipping yet?

[Than_Bogan]

The more I learn about the setups, the more amazed I am about how precise one needs to be about ski behavior before being able to address it with a setup change. When I first read @block's issue, I immediately mapped it to an issue I've had with certain setups, and I that I know how to fix. But then Cord's question made me realize I had made an assumption about what @block meant that (as it turned out) was false. The recommendation that I almost gave (go deeper) might well have made his actual issue worse.

 

I need to remember the idea of 5 Whys when trying to help people with setups!

 

But anyhow, if you are tail-sliding all around your on-side turn, go deeper :).

[block]

Thanks Than_Bogan, That is what I was thinking until I read Adam's Reply.

New way to think about it..

Johnny

[Horton]

I've already reviewed the ski so I'm not going to do this long form and I don't review fins. I need to confess quietly that since I put the CG fin on my Denali C65 I've been skiing by far the best of my life. I'm pretty sure it's just a coincidence and I give @AdamCord none of the credit.

[block]

HaHa!!

[Than_Bogan]

Don't forget to also give none of the credit to @adamhcaldwell, who invented the diagonal holes.

[block]

Yes, I love the fin. It's a fantastic product. It is a little aggressive as I have it now. Hopefully an easy fix.

 

Johnny

[Horton]

@Than_Bogan I'm okay giving some credit to Caldwell just not Cord

[Drago]

Seems like @Horton would be the most qualified to review fins...

[Horton]

Well I'm not taking my current fin out of my Denali. I have told @AdamCord if he sends me a second one I would do some comparisons/testing on a different ski. I'm super curious to try a normal shape fin with the asymmetrical vent holes.

 

Two more weeks of tournaments and then I will be somewhat interested in this kind of shenanigans

[Drago]

I’ve cut up and reshaped several of my fins but I have no time to test them

[JC McCavit]

When will the S-Wing be available for purchase?

[Than_Bogan]

@jcmccavit I am merely an Assistant Test Dummy, but fwiw I have not heard of any plans to produce and sell the S-wing separately.