New CG Fin from Denali

[Stathis Ventouris]

@AdamCord my experience so far with the CG Fin is that is very sensitive to wing angle and I ended up at 5 degrees (suggested standard wing angle 8 +/- 0,5). Everything else is the same as standard fin settings with the exception of fwdbk which is set 0,005 back from standard (0,718 from 0,723and the ski works fine ( ski GOODE XTM).

[BraceMaker]

Be curious to why the fin angle has greater impact?

[Bruce_Butterfield]

As a general rule, on any fin not just the cg, the lower the wing is on the fin, the more effective it will be.

 

I believe there are 2 dominant reasons for this: 1) the farther away from the bottom of the ski, the more laminar (less turbulent) the water flow over the wing will be and 2) the lower wing has a larger moment arm to drive the tip lower in the water which increases overall drag.

 

Somewhere in the bowels of the BOS archives is an old KLP article on the effect of wing position on the fin. Well worth searching for if anyone is interested in wing/fin theory.

[Skierx]

@Bruce_Butterfield

[sfriis]

@AdamCord - thanks for your help - fin works good on same settings as original (wing 5) - ski feels lighter and faster - now I only need smaller fine tuning - as it turns a bit to fast/"narrow arc" (32 off/34mph) compared to old fin and my likings (I want a little larger arc - so will try back 0,01) - off course its also a matter of adopting to the faster ski ....

I think this fin will help me getting 35 nailed this season.

amasing how much this fin changes the ski.

Please continue your good work on skis and fins :)

[Bill22]

@AdamCord Is there a tweak to help the ski cast out more going into 2/4 RFF. On both sides the turns feel good. Currently at 2.443 6.931 .752 7 deg.

 

Also, do you adjust the setup when a skier is at the bottom of the weight range of their ski?

 

I am 132 lb on a ‘16 Vapor 66, w/ RTP, currently running 28off at 32mph.

[ozski]

So at the end of the season here I have had a few sets on 2.500 6.865 .800 8 degrees - with my boots pushed as far forward as I could get them to go so need to measure but the ski felt pretty dam quick last set and turned really well both sides. I was not able to get past 3@-38 but skiing once a week I was pretty happy with the overall feel. Still loving what the fin does for the KD and I could never see myself going back to the stock fin. Just for fun I threw the fin into the old Quest and it felt much better side to side but the gap between the D3 and the KD is so vast I did not want to spend the time to adapt so the experiment was over. I still think the CG fin is a significant advance and a dirt cheap performance upgrade, what it does for your offside is worth the price alone. I recall messing up 2 ball on a 38 this season really badly and still going out the gates early, I've never had a ski setup that could do that until now.

[AdamCord]

@Bill22 The cast out will depend on what it's doing. Is the tip too low, or does the ski just feel stuck underneath you? If tip is low go shorter and deeper. If the ski is stuck under you push the fin forward.

[chris55]

@adamhcaldwell @AdamCord

I have a Mapple T2 and can I put your CG fin in my fin box ? I ask because it looks like the fin box is narrow....

Thank you

[AdamCord]

@chris55 we have quite a few customers with Mapple skis using the fin. You’ll need to loosen the mounting screws that attach the fin block to the ski. Then use a flat screwdriver to open the block a few thousandths. Install the fin from the bottom of the ski to avoid scratching the fin.

[chris55]

Ok, thank you for the info !

[S1Pitts]

I felt I was picking up right where I left off last fall which was basically in a rut where I was stagnant on progression. In the interest of shaking it up I thought why not go in a totally different direction? NEVER tried longer/shallower in my life.

C-65 67" - Bindings 30.5/18.0 - cg fin depth 2.442 - length 6.970 - dft 0.830 - wing 7.0 standard radar. No washers under fin block or offset with set screws in clamp. Water temp a brisk 45.8 F

 

Did not have access to a course to prove it out but an open water rip indicated this was a new animal. First thing I noticed was the ski hunting I was experiencing on pull out completely disappeared.

36 mph was perfect by all accounts. Ski flows fast and effortless with good angle - carries speed out of the turns right into the white water with a nice low tip and no bad tendencies on either side. Ran up the line right to 38 and never felt this comfortable on a ski ever and it just seemed to get easier to ski as the line shortened. >Have I reached fin setting utopia???

 

34 mph where I normally ski was virtually the same on side (LFF) - offside the ski feels like it is not carrying the speed out of the turn as well which is throwing the hook up to the boat off a bit. It really feels like my back leg / calf is dragging hard and just bleeding too much speed and does not seem to be overturning, or tip rising.

 

I am reluctant to change anything till I ski it more and hopefully get it into a course soon. I am looking for input where I might tweek for the off side. Sorry no video as I am the lone skier on our lake right now and getting a driver is hard enough let alone someone to video.

[AdamCord]

@S1Pitts I ran similar settings but even longer and shallower quite a bit last year. That setup works. As crazy as it may sound, you might try going even shallower to get the ski to carry more speed through your offside. Part of the magic of the CG Fin is that it will let you make big depth changes without punishing you. Try dropping the depth down to 2.43 and increasing the length to 7.01 to see if that lets the ski carry through your offside better.

[Than_Bogan]

Are you dialing in a fin without any buoys? Does that work!?

[S1Pitts]

@AdamCord Thank You for the input. I am really enjoying your product this year. I was running the front binding @ 30.75 but I did have a few OTF wake crossings on both sides so I moved it back and that seems cured.

 

@Than_Bogan

My theory is if you cannot ski fluid in open water you will never manage the course demands.

Once the ski feels like it has flow without bad traits I hit the course and fin tweaks are minimal if at all and I focus on what I am doing. The spring marathon 40 to 50 consecutive turns for 4 or 5 runs down the lake really bolsters the endurance too. Of course it helps I have and open water site that is 99% glass every time I hit it - 7 miles long and the only boat on the water!

I have always been a strong advocate for open water training to compliment the course. I have ski friends who are course only skiers that come here annually for 2-3 weeks every summer. They always return to their home site and ski PB's after some ski tweaking and marathon skis in open water training.

[Skierx]

@S1Pitts That long/ shallow set up worked really well for me too. Did a ton of Fin tuning last Summer under the direction of @AdamCord . 67" c-65 LFF 30.65"FB reflex RTP 7.01 , 2.432, .784 DFT 7` S wing . Also a great short/ deep set up that worked equally as well but easier to get angle off the ball was 30.65" FB 6.781, 2.520, .760DFT 7`S-wing .

[scuppers]

Do you guys make this in the radar vapor thickness?

[ozski]

@scuppers I've helped a guy set one up in a Vapor, took some grinding but it works fine.

[customski]

I got one into a Vapour without too much hassle, dont be afraid to file a bit here and there but thickness was ok. (16 Vapour)

[aupatking]

I used one on a 2018 Vapor with zero issues

[scuppers]

How did you all like it in the vapor. Was there an improvement?

[Dylan_wick]

@scuppers @AdamCord @adamhcaldwell

 

I just put mine in to my 2016 Vapor (thanks Purdue waterskis and Denali Skis for sending them to All-Stars). My first set on was amazing. Turning on my offside was incredible and surprisingly easy. I also finally felt like I could crank my inside turn without the thought of blowing out the tail. This fin is some thing special. I'm fairly confident I can be getting way farther up the line with this ski.

[customski]

@scuppers

I had the fin before i tried the Vapor so i cant compare. I just put the fin on any ski I'm trying. I like it best on a Denali though. They go hand in hand.

[S1Pitts]

@Skierx

I tried your short deep numbers and I also tried my numbers before going long shallow. For the c-65 I am going to run the long shallow as it just seems to be working the best for me.

I tried a long shallow set up on mt 2015 vapor and it was one of the wildest rides I have had in years. Going to have to rethink that one.

[Gar]

Plus one on long and shallow.

[Horton]

Denali makes fins?

[Ed_Johnson]

The Long Shallow numbers are something I posted months a go, and they are still working better than ever. Totally consistent and faster than ever in 80 degree water.

 

 

[rfa]

Curious about two seemingly divergent perspectives on fin dynamics.

From @AdamCord (May 6)

"@Dano leading edge position doesn’t matter..."

From @SkiJay (May 19)

"DFT isn't a measurement I worry much about. I'm more focused on how DFT affects the fin's leading edge location...".

Do these opinions reflect inherent properties of your respective fins (CG, WT)?

Or, do they reflect your own generic perspective/understanding on ski/fin interaction and dynamics?

I could speculate, but you both know best. Thanks

 

[S1Pitts]

@AdamCord I slowly worked the numbers towards your recommendations posted to me on May 24 and with each move I could feel something great was about to happen. I ended up just a bit longer At 7.030 length with depth @ 2.430 and 0.830 dft the ski has become everything I have read about and was hoping for. Here is the kicker.......NO WING.

In my haste to get back behind the boat I failed to tighten the wing screws and afterwards realized my error. I tightened it down at 5, 6 ,7 deg and the ski never felt like the ski I rode with the loose wing so I pulled it off and it was back.

Thanks so much Adam and to all others try without the wing....you might be as surprised as I was.

 

[Skierx]

Hmmm, Thats interesting.Happy It's working good for you. I ran the S wing all of last year. This winter I played around with the flat wing for a few weeks & it seems to carry too much speed into the ball. Put the S Wing back on @7° and it just works. I think the more efficient I'm becoming at the GUT approach to skiing, you know, swing the rope around the pylon faster. Keeping the elbows pinned to my body off the second wake & yawing the ski in the direction of the boat instead of rolling the ski first . You end up having much more speed & time, even waiting on the buoy . It's a little strange seeing the course that way. I feel the S wing is very helpful in getting the ski to shut down just in time to make a nice easy turn which means better angle more speed into the first wake . Repeat until the exit gate.

[S1Pitts]

@Skierx

I am finding the ski will shut down and bleed speed so long as I get forward sufficiently but what I really like is just how much speed I am carrying thru the turn and back towards the wakes. I also have been working on the GUT approach and am finding that I can actually feel it happening because it all seems to flow naturally now.

If I was only 20 yeas younger....

[NikolG]

Ordered and paid for a a CG Classic on 6/21. Emailed on 6/27 asking for status of order. Still have not heard anything back. Hasn’t responded to PM on BOS either ?‍♀️

[mbabiash]

Typical

Get a whisper fin way better and youll get your fin quickly.

[ballsohard]

@mbabiash sounds like the same experience that people have talked about having with US gear handles!

[mbabiash]

I’m sure it’s a good product just like us gear but nobody wants to wait around in the middle of the season for a product that you pay that kind of money for.

I know the Adams are busy guys and make great stuff but it’s a tough sell

[AdamCord]

@nikandsteve sorry for the delay. I am in the middle of moving my family out west, and Caldwell is in the middle of running 3 businesses and breaking records. We typically ship fins once per week but are behind. Your fin will ship with the batch next week.

 

 

@mbabiash thanks for your great input

[ozski]

@mbabiash you can also get whisper fins on SIA now so you can draw your own conclusions about why that might be.

[S1Pitts]

I too waited for a fin an unusually long time when the CG fin first became available.

Realistically it took what would be a full season of tuning and rebuilding my form to achieve the success I am now having. Are my results that much better? Maybe a 1/2 pass or so but what is most important to me is that I just skied a lot of sets 4 days in a row and I am not beat up to the point of wishing for death. I ski smoother with a lot less effort and a lot more consistency now. This is giving me the opportunity to slowly improve each day.

WORTH EVERY MINUTE OF THE WAIT, THE COST AND THE EFFORT

 

I have seen both fins offered up for sale used. Both the fins are revolutionary and unless you are someone who as a skier is an athletic mutant or have access to some high caliber coaching /set up persons then tuning and re-learning is not an overnight thing.

Both fins are an instant improvement over a traditional fin but to get the absolute best from your ski /fin/binding combination it takes time on the water. Unfortunately some are not willing to travel that road.

 

I salute both fin camps for they have made many skiers lives a happier place.

[BraceMaker]

Can fin owners register on the Denali forum?

[MJE]

Set up CG fin on a 2019 Vapor. DFT +.020", FL -.020", FD +.010", 9 deg STD wing worked well on both stock S/D and L/S fin settings. Liked S/D better with the standard fin but prefer L/S with the CG fin.

[Spock]

Anyone got any experience with a CG fin on a Goode Rev6 please?

[Adam Caldwell]

@Spock - There certainly are - Just bumping this to help get you an answer!

[Horton]

@AdamCord @adamhcaldwell you guys know if this thread gets over a hundred thousand views you owe me a bottle of Scotch, right?

[AdamCord]

Everyone needs to stop viewing this thread asap

[Horton]

@AdamCord I should pin it to the top of the page

[Rednucleus]

@adamcord - Pro tip - buy a really cheap scotch and pour it into an expensive bottle. I have an acquaintance that puts a pretty good dent in my scotch and it works great! (Hopefully @horton won't see this.)

[Adam Caldwell]

@Horton Maybe you'd be a good test dummy for the Smoke Wisky.

 

https://denalispirits.com/

 

 

 

 

[Adam Caldwell]

opps wrong thread.

[jbwann]

Anyone on a 2017/2018 Nano One XT using the CG fin?? If you are getting deep into 35 / 38 would love to know your fin stats. Anyone?? thx!

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@jbwann start with the same L and D, but DFT shorter by 0.030 and start with 7 deg on the wing.