Getting back into slalom/boat suggestions

[rlyons124]

Hi everyone, first post here. I’ve been on the site for the past couple weeks reading about boat recommendations but I couldn’t seam to find all my answers.

 

Finally getting back into slalom after a long five years of being away. Need to get myself a new boat. I’ve had a 2005 MC PS209 and 1992 PS190, those are my reference points. My thoughts were to just buy another PS190 or that era because of the amazing wake but I figured I would ask around to see if there were any other recommendations.

 

We will be using the boat for 75% slalom, 20% pulling the kids on tubes and trainer skis and 5% wake boarding. Obviously I would love to have 24’ vdrive room with no wake but that doesn’t exists.

 

What would you guys say is the closest wake to the PS190 or better. An open bow would be great and a boat with more storage would be even better. I don’t want to sacrifice too much wake quality for an open bow or storage. Fuel injection would also be nice.

 

From what I’ve been seeing it looks like 1997-200? SN or 2003-200? response LXi? How do those boats stack up to the PS205?

 

My wife skis 15 off at 32 and I ski 15-22 off at 34-36. I would like to get to 28 or 32 off but honestly I don’t really see myself getting past 28. So super short line spray and wake really isn’t an issue. My budget is 20-25k but I have no problem spending 10k on an older boat with more hours that fits our needs better.

 

Thanks for anyone input. I’m really glad I found this forum!

[Wish]

Nothing better for slower speed longer line skiing then the bubble back SN for the money....nothing. Your wife will thank you.

[rlyons124]

@wish thanks for the reply. I think the bubble back is the 1997-2002 tsc1 hull, correct? Exactly what models had the tsc1 hull of that era?

[Wish]

1997-2001

[Wayne]

If looking at Malibu, Sunsetter LXI, Sunsetter (with Diamond hull) or a first generation Response LXI would be in your budget and fit your described use.

 

Another one that might work is the Moomba Outback.

[sodbuster88]

‘94-‘95 MC 205 fuel injection and killer hull.

[rlyons124]

@Wayne are all those boats you listed use the same hull, diamond? Do you know what years those were? I’ve been searching around for what years have what hulls and what they models are?

 

@sodbuster88 do you know if the 94-95 PS205 hull is the same as the PS190 hill?

[sodbuster88]

Yes they are generally the same, just a bit longer. However if memory serves me right....the PS190 hull changed for ‘95 and later while the 205 didn’t adopt the change until ‘96. So I believe the sweet spot is 94-95 in the 205 due to fuel injection if you want the open bow.

[escmanaze]

From 97 to 2002, CC made the ski nautique in an open bow version. That's what I have - mine is a 97. I love it. They are unicorns - hard to find, but if you find one, definitely take a look. They probably won't make it up to your price range though, best case an 01 or 02 would come close to 20k, but probably not go over - maybe if it was really immaculate.

 

After that, though, there is a gap. CC stopped open bow after 02, mastercraft 197s had pretty big wakes by then, so for open bow, the malibu is the best wake available between 2003 and 2010. Neither the LXI nor the LX are as good of a wake as your PS190, but especially the LX in those years should be at least pretty close - and it would fall right into your 20-25k price range. It would definitely have a better wake than a 2005 MC PS209.

 

You'll be tested on exactly how important you think open bow is because it will make your shopping much tougher if it is a requirement. My wife made it a requirement for us, so I ended up looking far and wide and forever before finally finding my 97 SNOB 500 miles away. Glad I have it now though, I love the boat. I have an open bow (yes a small one, and a step over one) and yet I still have a small soft wake for my terrible skiing self that can't get beyond 32 mph and -15.

[BraceMaker]

Prostar 205 can be EFI back to their introduction of you get an LT-1 engine. It's the base 5.7 that was carbed through 93.

 

Prostar 205 LT-1 is a great boat regardless. Bit heavy for the 5.7 with the 1:1 trans they feel sluggish compared to older prostar hull.

 

Great boats though, good examples of LT-1 equipped boats regularly 14K+

[BraceMaker]

@rlyons124 the 190 and 205 are different hulls but based on the same design with the 205 being longer and having bow seating.

 

In 95 the 190 was updated, the 205 stayed the same. In 96 the new 205 hull launched.

 

The 96 hull direct drive is a great cross over recommendation. As in 97 MC let you buy a 205 as an X-star.

 

It is the 96 version hull that in 99 was given deeper sides and a V drive and as the stars got bigger became an X2.

 

 

So if you are slalom enthusiasts buy a 95 or older 205. If you want more wakes buy a 96 plus direct drive 205 or xstar. If you want even more wakes over slalom go to a 205V or x star X2 etc.

 

 

 

 

[6balls]

TSC1 unless need a bigger boat...if you do the "Bu" Sunsetter skis/drives remarkably well for the size.

[Ski_Dad]

i think the early 90's prostars ski great - I've skied both 190 and 205 from that era. But a 1999-2004 Malibu Sunsetter and Response with the diamond hull also ski great and I feel ride a little nicer.

[UWSkier]

Versatility and room for family, it's hard to beat the Malibu Sunsetter LXi or Response LXi, both of which you should be able to find in your price range. The former especially is large enough for comfortably loading up the family for a day on the lake.

 

Comes down to use cases really. If you're a ski-from-the-dock and never have more than 3 or 4 in the crew user, the PS190 and TSC1 Nautique are great choices. If you like to spend a few hours at a time away from land and have crews of varying size, and/or want to be able to transition to wake sports without any ballast, look at the Malibus.

[rlyons124]

Wow thanks for all the great information. I will continue my search based on those recommendations. Does anyone know of any common issues with any of those boats (engine, trans issues or hull issues?)

[Rivvy]

Maybe worth looking into a malibu xti as well. Not to confuse you but they ski great and provide a lot of versatility. My neighbor has a 2008 that skis great and works well for his family.

[Wayne]

@rlyons124 Malibu has had a few different hills over the years and there are some model specific hulls. I’ll break them down a bit.

 

Malibu has two general hull designs, the wake and the Diamond. Some Malibu models could be optioned with one or the other. The sunsetter is a good example. The sunsetter LXI only came on the Diamond hull. The Sunsetter LX only came with the wake hull. The Sunsetter came with the wake hull except in 2002 you could option it with the Diamond hull.

 

Not getting too deep in the details but there are some design features of the Diamond hull that create a little more lift yielding a wake that is much nicer for slalom skiing. The wake hulls are missing the details that create lift so the hulls will displace more water and create a “bigger wake” more conducive to wake type sports.

 

The XTI was mentioned, this is in essence a Sunsetter LXI with an interesting seating layout. My memory is a little fuzzy on the XTI but it may have been a model that was available with either the Diamond or wake hull. So if you find one it’s something to check.

 

The Sunsetter LXI is a little bigger and has more freeboard than the Response LXI. These boats are not on the same hull but share similar hull design features. They had a little over lap in manufacturing time frame but Malibu stopped making the Sunsetter as I believe the slalom crowd went for the Response and the cross over people went for the Sunscspe 20 LSV or the VTX which were a V-drive configuration which for some offers an acceptable slalom wake but can hang with the big boy wake/surf boats.

 

If your budget was higher I would say take a look at the 20 LSV and VTX (on a Diamond hull, as these boats can be built on the wake hull as well). At higher speeds (32 MPH +) these boats have a fairly good slalom wake. If you drop below that speed the wake can really grow. I would never teach some one the slalom course behind one of those.

 

As you search I would probably keep the Sunsetter LXI, Response LXI, XTI (diamond hull) and the Sunsetter (Diamond hull) on your list. Malibu also made something called an iRide, it was a “lower cost” direct drive that might be in your budget, the only thing I cannot remember is if these were available on the Diamond hull.

 

 

[6balls]

Adding onto @Wayne post here is an xti near me.

 

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/boa/d/malibu-wakesetter/6546083786.html

 

You can see the interior layout is different...but it keeps direct drive configuration.

[UWSkier]

@Wayne with some good info.

 

There were two XTis. 21 and 23 footers. Avoid the 23. 21 was basically a Sunsetter with the funky seating and could be had on the diamond or wake hull.

 

One thing to consider with Malibus of that vintage is the HDS. It's a box around the drive shaft that was designed to let water in with the intention of sound deadening. They're prone to leaking on occasion, especially if the driveshaft has ever been involved in a nasty depth finding mission. They develop some small cracks and will slowly let water into the bilge if bad. Not a huge deal to fix, just a nuisance.

[rlyons124]

@Wayne @6balls thanks for the information guys. As far as the wake vs diamond hulls, how can you tell which hull the boat has. I would defiantly get the diamond hull. How does the response or sunsetter with a diamond hull compare to an early 90s PS190 slalom wake at 15-28 off. I’m not really concerned with super short line. These Malibu’s look beautiful and seam to have so much more room than my PS190. The only thing I missed from my PS209 was the ski locker in the back of the boat and open bow. I absolutely love the way my 190 handled and the wake, or lack there of.

[UWSkier]

I used to ski regularly behind a 94 PS190 and a 2002 Response LX. Wakes were similar but I'd have to give the nod at 15 and 22 off to the PS, but not by a wide margin. 28 was the shortest I skied either and I couldn't tell difference there. In my experience, the Response LXi from 2003-2006 is the best pre-TXi Malibu wake out there. Some say they liked the Response LX better so it might be a matter of individual boats, lakes, load conditions, etc.

 

Diamond vs wake hull and how to tell, see this link. http://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/articles.html/diamond-vs-wake-hull-r9/

[andjules]

If you want to do some intermediate to advanced-intermediate wakeboarding on a primarily-slalom boat, (like many commenters above) I think this is where Malibu really outshines the other boat companies, mostly thanks to the versatility that the Wedge provides. Unless (a) you're a really advanced wakeboarder, (b) you're really into wakesurfing, or © you or your crew or your significant other is dead set on the interior layout that comes with V-drives... I'd stick with a direct drive.

 

They killed the awesome Sunsetter LXi at the end of 2003, but introduced the slightly-smaller Response LXi the same year - they're both a little more "family": walk-through bowrider, wider beam. If you go out with your crew on a public lake and ski out of the boat for a couple of hours, you'll want one of these. If you mostly ski off the dock with a smaller boat crew, I'd stick with the Response LX.

[Wayne]

Regarding Sunsetter LXI versus Response LXI wakes, yes the Response is better but not tremendously so. I notice a difference but I don’t ski any better behind one or the other.

 

Unfortunately I’ve never been behind a PS190 for comparison. The Sunsetter LXI is equally as nimble on handling as any other tournament approved boat from that era. Malibu came out with the FXI which was short lived. It’s a “wide body” Response with more freeboard. Unfortunately they didn’t sell well and the people that have them now won’t sell them. It really was the recreation of the Sunsetter LXI.

[Lieutenant Dan]

@rlyons124 Of course this is all subjective (and furthermore I am biased) but several of my ski buddies who own ‘03 - ‘06 Response LXI’s and who like me ski 15 off to 28 off actually prefer the wake of my ‘01 Sunsetter LXI (softer bump).

 

We use ours for everything but surfing: slalom, wakeboarding/skating, tubing, Airchairing, cruising and it can hold up to 10 people (8 semi-comfortably).

 

I don’t know where you are located but there is a really nice one on OnlyInboards.com in Chattanooga that you should check out.

[andjules]

I agree with the two posts above: while they're pretty close, I preferred the (larger!) Sunsetter LXi to the Response LXi (although, at this point all Sunsetter LXis are 15-19 years old), and owned the former for several years.

 

@Wayne the PS190 is a great slalom boat, but not nearly as nice a family boat compared to Response LXi/FXi or Sunsetter LXi. @rlyons124 are you on a public lake? do you go out on the lake with kids for an hour or two, or just take sets off the dock?

 

@rlyons124 back to your question, you can tell the difference between a Malibu "wake" and "diamond" hull by the "lifting chines" at the outside edges of the diamond hull, which keep the boat higher/"lighter", resulting in a softer wake. Look at the back left corner of the white boat below (diamond hull) vs the back right corner of the orange boat (wake hull).

 

 

[foxriverat]

This sunsetter just came up on SIA http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=46077

[hemlock]

To @rylons124, forget about the wake. :smile:

All 3 event tow boats built in the last 20 years have good wakes.

Look for a boat that appeals to you in the driver position, seating all around, color, options, storage, trailering, all that stuff.

 

 

 

[Nole_Skier]

I have a 1999 Sunsetter LXI and am still a 15 off skier. I also regularly ski behind a 2016 200 and while I'm sure there is a difference, it's not noticeable to me at that length. The caveat being that I also keep 1/4 tank or less fuel and added 150 pounds on passenger side to level out.

[rlyons124]

@Lieutenant Dan I can’t believe the sunsetter actually has a softer wake than the response. What speeds are you guys skiing at. Is it a bigger but softer wake or the same size and also softer? Does anyone know how the sunsetter compares to the PS209? It seams like it’s better.

[UWSkier]

Sunsetter, specifically the LXi, has way better wakes than any boat that size should.

[rlyons124]

@andjules We used to ski right from our dock on a private lake. We are now moving near a big public lake, Table Rock lake (beautiful lake!), where we will have a slip in a neighborhood dock. I think it will be somewhere in the middle. We will probably take all the kids with us but go back and forth to the dock to switch out gear. Thanks for the pictures. It makes it really easy to spot one now.

[Lieutenant Dan]

@rlyons124 We ski between 30 and 34 mph. The wake may look a bit bigger but it is definitely softer ie is much easier to maintain an edge and doesn’t “pop” the ski. It might be because of the difference in weight distribution between the two boats. I have heard that putting weight in the prow of the Response LXI can help.

[rlyons124]

Two boats I'm looking at now. Would love to get everyone's opinion.

 

https://denver.craigslist.org/bod/d/2008-malibu-response/6534058311.html

This boat is where I live now. Obviously newer, tower, wedge, PP........... Has about 2k hours on an 08 so its obviously been a boat that has been ran and not sat.

 

VS

 

https://springfield.craigslist.org/boa/d/2000-malibu-sunsetter-lxi/6558757171.html

@foxriverat Recommended this one and the owner is on this forum and has contacted me about it. It's actually in the city I'm moving to next month, I'm going to try and go take a look at it soon. Looks like a pristine boat with low hours.

 

If all else is equal (condition, driveability, maintenance) which would you guys go with. I'm going to try and get out to ski behind a few Malibu's pretty soon to see how they all compare.

[Conor]

MB BOSS 190 is a great boat if you can find one.

[UWSkier]

@rlyons124 I stopped reading the first one at Hammerhead. With that many hours on it, it's probably fine, but those motors aren't known for their longevity the way the Monsoon is.

 

Advantages of the '08 Response LXi

Newer

Better PerfectPass with multi-line display. StarGazer and ZBox ready.

DBW and can be upgraded to ZO if you want to someday

Better wiring and connectors, less prone to gauge goofiness

Beefier alternator (unless the one on the SSLXi was upgraded)

More durable upholstery less likely to tear

Better quality carpet

Better sound insulation

 

 

Advantages of the '00 Sunsetter LXi

Better looking

Tandem trailer vs Single

Has mechanical switches instead of those dumb mux switches

Lower hours

Monsoon will run forever

No Cats

More space

Looks to be in much better condition

[andjules]

@rlyons124 I'd say no comparison, 99-03 Sunsetter LXI is a way better slalom (and maybe everything-else) boat vs PS209. And that's not me being a Malibu fanboy. I love a good Mastercraft "single purpose" boat (e.g. slalom or wakeboarding), but I'd say their attempts at hybrid/crossover boats have been universally 'meh'.

[andjules]

@hemlock I'd mostly agree about 3-event (or slalom-focused) boats in the last 20 years. But it's not as true of crossover boats. Most family-friendly crossover boats in the last 20 years put wakeboarding ahead of slalom, and were big-and-heavy enough that the slalom wakes at anything slower than 32 were often terrible.

[andjules]

@rlyons124 honestly, for your needs — and despite the fact that I love the Sunsetter LXi —I'd take an '08 Response over an '00 Sunsetter. I think the slalom wake, the wakeboarding wake, and the roominess are all slightly better on the Sunsetter than the Response, but it's negligible. And the tower is a nice touch.

The weird part is the hours. Is it a mistake? Has it just been re-upholstered? I've never seen a boat with 2k hours that isn't also banged up and aged in every other way.

[6balls]

I thought it may be a fair fight til I saw 280 hrs on the sunsetter and 1900 plus on the response. If that's truly the case the Sunsetter. As someone else mentioned a boat that size has no business having the wake and driving performance it does.

A friend has one...and I had never driven/skied one...and it was kind of a mind-bending experience. Great boats and a huge value for a really nice example asking less than $20K with EFI, wedge, barefoot boom, perfect pass all included.

[braindamage]

@rlyons124 I have an ‘00 sunsetter and couldn’t be happier. You can’t go wrong with that one. It looks really clean.

[HPskier1]

Thanks for all nice comments on my sunsetter lxi, I’m really struggling with the decision to sell her but I’m going to a vtx to please everyone in the family. I’ve used as an early morning slalom tug only, wiped down and cleaned every time. For the size and flexibility this boats been the best I’ve ever owned. With the right prop (which I have on her) I’d put this up against any wake. By the way I wouldn’t put a tower on this boats its one of the classiest boats I’ve ever seen jut the way it is.

[rlyons124]

Thanks for all the comments everyone, what a great resource this forum has been. Hopefully going to get together with @HPskier1 this weekend to look at his boat.

[braindamage]

The other thing is that these boats really hold their value. You can use for a summer or two and if you want something different I bet you will sell it for same as you paid as long as you take good care of her.

[Ski_Dad]

That sunsetter is cleaner than mine and mine is in great condition.

[HPskier1]

Sold it in 48 hours :'( , well move on to the next boat pick up the VTX next week. Hopefully I didn’t make a mistake.

[UWSkier]

@HPskier1 congrats on the sale, but have you skied the VTX? What year VTX did you go for?

[rlyons124]

Does anyone have an opinion on the early 2000s nautique 206 vs the early 2000s sunsetter lxi? I was really looking for a sunsetter lxi but I'm having a hard time finding anything decent right now without going across the country. I don't want to get desperate but I might have to open up my options a little.

[FSSPCat]

If you wanted to drive up north, there are a couple of LXi’s for sale in Alberta and B.C. And with the dollar, it would be cheap.

[rlyons124]

FSSPCat Canada would be a haul for me. Don't know if I have that much time to make it up there. Where would you search for boats online up in Alberta and B.C.

[FSSPCat]

https://www.kijiji.ca/b-british-columbia/malibu-sunsetter/k0l9007?dc=true

 

There is a couple there.