If you could design a new boat, what are the most important things?

[Wish]

@DynaSkiPete i suspect a platform large enough to allow a skier to have both feet on either side of the ski as well as spanning the distance of having both feet in the ski would be functional. How big is the one pictured? Can a platform on each side be made any bigger?

[BraceMaker]

Is there a world the outboard could slide slightly forwards into a "pocket" in the back of the hull so the platform could still be large but not as far back?

[ALPJr]

@BraceMaker that's sort of what the later model Flightcraft OB's have. Glastron made an anniversary GT160 a few years back that was sort of like that too. For me with dbl boots I like to be able to sit/rest on the gunnel, then lift my ski from platform and lower my butt down onto the platform and then go into the water.

[6balls]

@bananaron no. When I do divest she stays in the family it’s that important.

Free skied it at 28 off a few days back to break in the muscles for the season.

[DynaSkiPete]

I measured the existing platforms. 22" by 16". They could be made bigger but the question is what is the minimum size that would work? I don't own a double boot slalom ski or have anyone that really slalom skis so keep that in mind.

[Wish]

@DynaSkiPete what would be the max size you could build all things considered.

[DynaSkiPete]

Tough to answer. There are never simple answers which is why I want to know the realistic minimum size. Many people have space limitations in their garages or boat houses so that is a factor as well. The load on the platform is another consideration as they have to be braced. They also have to look good or there is no point to making them.

[slow]

I’ll take a bubble back with zero off trick mode slalom.

[A_B]

Copy of my ‘99 SN with new power and ZO.

Pretty simple.

[Jordan]

Often wondered about a platform that flipped up and over the gunnel so that you climbed in and out over the side of the boat, then flipped it in once the skier was in the water.

[6balls]

@jordan like the tray table in the exit row of an aircraft? Not sure it works but I always love outside-the-box thinkers/ideas...kudos to throwing something out there. We triple panda recipients gotta stick together

[Jordan]

@6balls something like that....triple panda award winners rock!

[Wish]

Are we getting close to outboards having enough to do the job?

 

 

[Jordan]

Lots of power and torque but I read somewhere that this engine weighs around a thousand pounds. That's a lot hanging on a transom.

[Ckrueg]

Mercury just released a 300 hp v8 outboard that weighs only 505 lbs. That would work well. I would think 300 would be plenty. My 94 ski centurion has 200 and it has tons of power. I don't have a picture but the swim platform setup on those is great for an outboard. The side platforms are angled to allow me to stand and put on my ski, and use the rope gaurd as a handle. Plus the boat has a jackplate allowing me to walk from side to side in front of the engine.

[DynaSkiPete]

The power of an outboard is measured at the prop. The power of an inboard is measured at the crank. This makes for a huge difference. A 250 hp. or larger outboard has way more power than you realize and also uses way less gas than a V-8 inboard.

[6balls]

I never thought power was the issue on my outboard. It can relocate many joints in your body if not careful with the hole shot. Tracking, shortline wake, top-level speed control.

Good insights from @dynaskipete on where power is measured. I was unaware of this but always did kind of wonder how my boat does what it does on 225 hp...now it makes sense.

[UWSkier]

Want outboard porn? Check out Seven Marine. 627 HP at the prop anyone? http://www.seven-marine.com/motors/seven-627sv/

[DynaSkiPete]

I just pulled my son barefoot at 39 mph then my wife at 13 mph swivel skiing with my 150 Evinrude outboard. It has electronic shift and throttle so no mechanical cables. I fail to understand why people have difficulty driving properly set up outboard water ski boats at a steady speed? Maybe the key is properly setup? 17' 6" Boat has a 3 blade 15" by 16" stainless steel prop and transom shims. Top speed is around 51 mph on the GPS. Wake is tiny. Sips gasoline. Now we are not slalom course skiers but we do everything else other than wake surf so far.

[BrennanKMN]

I might be in the minority, but I just couldn't own an outboard. Just too ugly to me.

To each their own.

[Ilivetoski]

@DynaSkiPete when you’re talking about holding speed, I’m curious how exact it holds speed. For most people holding within +\- 1mph or so is probably pretty good, but I’m probably gonna assume it’s nothing close to Zero Off which would be a deal breaker for most tournament skiers

[ALPJr]

We used to have a 16' Checkmate Starfire c/b with a 140hp OB. It was propped for skiing and when trimmed right it was a very solid pull. Required focus and finesse driving in the course and worked well for us -15 to -32 skiers. Fuel use was about the same as our 92 MC 190, 1/2 to 3/4 gallon per set. Looking back the only thing that I would have changed in that boat would have been installing a rear facing observers seat

[DynaSkiPete]

Speed does not vary by 1 MPH pulling her swiveling. My GPS Speedometer reads in tenths. The RPM's is 2350 steady going west. When I go east on the lake I drop to 2300 RPM's or 2250 to get the same speed range of 13 MPH. I say range as the speed fluctuates between 13.2 & 13.7 usually. If a driver tries to hold the speed at the exact tenth of a MPH they tend to see saw the throttle along with the speed as the 25 or 50 rpms changes causes a slight speed change. My wife can tell if the speed is about 1 mph faster or slower. Trim is all the way down with transom shims. The large lake we live on has a dam and water does flow very, very slowly towards the west. Wind is also a very slight factor although we don't ski if it is too windy or there is a lot of traffic on the lake.

 

There is no speed fluctuation pulling John bare footing at 39 MPH which is 4900 or so RPMs depending upon the trim level. Motor trim can adjust the speed a couple MPH at faster speeds.

 

The 17.6 and 20' 1" Dyna-Ski Boats at 84" beam are 12" wider than the old 18' Hydrodynes. I also own an 18' that has a 150. The new boats have taller sides and a slightly different hull shape which makes for a good dry rough water ride. The modern outboards have so much torque that speed variations are greatly reduced from even 3 years ago. Oil and gas consumption goes down every model year it seems.

 

By adding a lot of weight to the 17.6 or a 20' it has more mass and mass improves tracking and speed holding. We add weight when John wants to wakeboard using fat sacs. Placement in the boat is somewhat important.

 

The noise of an inboard is not pleasant to many people. More and more lakes around Wisconsin are starting to regulate noise especially loud music. Big fines.

 

I have thousands of hours driving 17.6's with 150's. A speed control type of system is like cruise control on a vehicle in that it reacts to changes after they happen which is slower than a human mind is capable of doing which can anticipating and act accordingly. So I'll wager that a great driver is better than speed adjustment systems but many people including skiers are not very good drivers. Just steering the boat keeps them on edge.

 

These are my opinions based on 46 years of driving and skiing behind outboards. They have improved massively. Whatever boat does the job you need is the best boat for you.

[Jordan]

One note to horsepower measurement at the prop versus at the block. On an outboard, that matters because there is a fair amount of parasitic loss going through the angle changes and gears going from the block through the lower unit. this would also be true in an I/O. Not so much in a direct drive. no angle changes or conversions from vertical to horizontal in the driveline. Pretty much straight out.

 

One big thing is the propping. inboards are running 12 or 13inch pitch props, That provides a lot of torque. Outboards are most often running between 17 and 21 inch pitch.

[DynaSkiPete]

I should have mentioned I have electronic engine controls. Fine speed control is a snap with the electronic controls and more difficult with cable controls as they have resistance (drag), age and wear. I suggest manual cables be replaced every other year unless you are running more than 50 hours per year.

[ALPJr]

@DynaSkiPete I think New England is a good market for your boats. Lots of lake and ponds that locals trailer boats to for a morning or evening session, or weekend getaways. Lots of skiing families and clubs that enjoy multiple events. There's a club in MA has a 6 event fun tournament - barefoot-endurance and figure 8, show ski-mixed doubles, slalom, trick, jump and wakeboard. Another club, the second oldest in the country has a very active membership and promotes all events. That's just a small slice of many ski sites.

[OTF]

For any boat over 50k the first thing it should come with is a full time driver.

[DynaSkiPete]

I was hoping to get some suggestions for a realistic size for a platform to put on a slalom ski. The couple owners of my boats that slalom report no issues using what is on the existing boat. Please get your tape measures out.

 

Most outboards we sell have 15 pitch 4 bladed props. Any V-6 outboard will pull the handle out of your hands starting in the water easily.

[skiboyny]

price that regular people can afford!

[andjules]

@DynaSkiPete you're saying your slalom customers don't have any trouble putting a double boot on one of your half-platforms? Is that true for the 17' as well as the 20'?

[DynaSkiPete]

Same platform used on both boats. I have two owners in particular that I know slalom mainly. I pay attention to what people want. I love realistic feedback. I cannot work miracles though.

 

New Dyna-Ski Boats are way less than new inboards so I guess I don't know what regular people can afford. A dollar range would be nice. Keep in mind that most outboard water ski boats can be pulled with a small SUV or even a mini van. It would suck having to buy a vehicle just to pull my water ski boat.

[6balls]

I agree for @DynaSkiPete those that ski dbl bindings chime in on platform size. Being a toe loop guy I can make the small platforms on my outboard Centurion work. I'm a righty so I keep one foot out and on the platform while I get my front foot in, then easily step into the water. The ski has to be diagonal on the platform.

 

Very important that the ski platform is horizontal. My boat they pitch down a bit toward the lake. So for a dbl binding skier what would it take to get back there, soap it if rubber bindings, get your feet in there and hop off. It still won't be an inboard platform but what would work?

 

My two cents Pete would be as big as is possible given motor clearance and doesn't look stupid. I don't think going behind/around the motor is really reasonable. Make sure it's horizontal and up out of the water even with people in the boat...but close enough to the water that it's easy to get up/out after a set.

[h2onhk]

@DynaSkiPete how far could $30k go on a 20 open bow family skier? Motor size and options with trailer. I think that's a realistic price that most would deam affordable when shopping for a "new" boat for skiing. Ski it again has 196's and MC 197's in about that price area and those always seem to move fairly quick. And they usually have anywhere from 500-1200 hrs on them.

[DynaSkiPete]

Comparing new boats to 20 year old boats I will never understand. Used boats often sell for less than asking prices too. People are desperate to sell often and the available used boats are many. $30 K goes a good part of the distance for a new Dyna-Ski. New outboard motors are expensive so buyers can increase the cost quickly. Then most people add a lot of options to the boat and the price climbs.

[vtmecheng]

Whether you like it or not, used boats are part of the competition. It's no doffediff from the car buyer. What can I get used and new? Is buying new worth it? If I can get a used boat, in good condition, that's better than the new option but for a better price then that's what I'll probably do. If I can't do much better on price then I buy new.

[DynaSkiPete]

Some people are always going to buy used stuff which is good for sellers. Comparing prices for new and used is still crazy. Warranty is important to many folks. Our owners tend to keep their boats forever. So our boats hold their prices well if you can find one. The outboard motors are the only thing that goes down in value.

[Wish]

We talk about how our sport is becoming elitist with unaffordable $100k+ plus boats and a shrinking population. At first I thought Pete was sounding a little defensive (tough crowd on BOS sometimes) but now I think Pete is just the kind of shot in the arm this sport needs. If we want to grow and his boats provide that opportunity I applaud his efforts. And he's listening. Will an outboard ever pull/track like an inboard...ah no. That's just physics. Are there clear advantages to his brand...yes. But at least another option is out there for what seems to be enough of a population that's keeping him in business and people on the water...thinkn that's a good thing.

[6balls]

@wish agree we talk about expanding the sport...how many of us began on outboards? Get people in the water having fun.

[eleeski]

@Wish I liked your post despite one serious error. As an engineer, outboards CAN be designed to "pull/track" like an inboard. Whether the flexibility of an outboard SHOULD be thrown away to match an inboard is another question.

 

Of course in a world where brand M is so much worse than brand N despite the pulls being realistically indistinguishable, nobody will initially accept an outboard pull. So I guess you are right...

 

Eric

[Wish]

Hate to ask and probably shouldn't but HOW would an outboard track (I'll give you pull) like and inboard?

[Ckrueg]

As long as the steering setup is solid (hydraulic) it should track well. The lower unit on an outboard is at least the size of a rudder.

Also for outboard swim platforms my centurion is perfect for an outboard. I have no trouble with my double bindings, and the surface is almost even with the water

[Wish]

Can we see the rest of that boat? Those platforms look plenty big enough.

[DynaSkiPete]

I wonder if I'm the only real owner of a boat company in this group? Any boat company executives?

 

I don't expect to sell any boats to anyone in this group. I'm just interested in gathering any information that I can. Price is right, free unless you figure my time.

 

Sorry but the tracking of a water ski boat inboard or outboard is not just about just having hydraulic steering. There are many factors that get into the mix. Hull shape and weight are two of the bigger things. Hydraulic steering just allows a person to steer the boat easier. If any of you ever skied behind one of our twin motored new style 20' closed bow boats you'd be shocked by how true it tracks. Two motors in the water along with the weight (mass) of the boat is amazing as far as tracking and hole shot go. I'm now wondering a little how the wake would compare? I know the bubbles are greater with two motors. Imagine the pull with 600 hp. or more? I doubt one skier could slow the boat so speed control would not be needed. Any one interested in giving it a shot?

 

Imagine how the three motored, 20' 1" long, 7' wide boats accelerate? We have pulled 72 people but some of the skiers fell building the pyramids.

 

 

[Wish]

Pete. Had not thought of 2 motors in that regard. I can see how that would make tracking better. How much weight do you think is needs to compensate for the weight or 2 outboards on the back or just to make it more solid in general for tracking? I'd love to give it a go. FL is a bit far though.

[Jordan]

@DynaSkiPete don't know if you are the only boat manufacturer here. Mark Overbye (Gekko boats) used to post here at one time. Not sure if he still drops by or not.

Not real sure about what is or isnt happening with Gekko.

[6balls]

If my centurion had tighter hydraulic steering (it's got some play), it already has tracking fins thru bolted to the pylon and enough negative angle on the transom that the stern is pushed up and the bow down that it track fine.

I was a bear to pull as a 220 lb power lifter at 36 mph into 35 off...and my Dad accomplished it while hand timing himself with a stopwatch in his throttle hand.

Wake shorter than 28 off, however, was much better on the inboards the outboard got stiffer the shorter it got...low but stiff. No spray at all. No 22 off bump, and longline/slow speed for kids was fantastic.

In short, the outboard can track just fine until you get to 32 or 35 off, at which time you won't want the wake anymore.

Having said that the Flighty didn't track as well as the Centurions, and the the Sanger tracked like a monster but the nose lifted a bit with every slalom pull. Both had better wakes than the Centurion but paid in other ways ie) tracking/bow lift. The MC Barefooter had no tracking fins. Can't comment on a Dynaski. Would like to ski one sounds like fun.

[WIRiverRat]

Dynaskipete,

What does the interior layout of the 20ft boat look like? The other day I was discussing a new boat with a newer skier who is just getting in to running the course and he wants to get a crossover boat for the family. He was thinking about a V Driver Mastercraft which will not be a great slalom wake. However he really like the seating arrangement of the wrap around seats. With an outboard I would think that type of seating arrangement would be possible while still giving a better pull than a V Drive. Maybe this is the do everything crossover boat.

 

Living in Wisconsin and having show skied behind dynaskis I am now very curious to slalom behind one. I have never slalomed behind an outboard except a 74 bayliner many years ago.

[vtmecheng]

@WIRiverRat asks a great question. The Dynaski site is limited on pics. I'm not a fan of the rear sun deck and would rather have the open space with a wrap around seat.

 

Also, a quick recommendation on the site. The pics of boats trimmed way up so the nose points to the sky aren't flattering for the average boater. It makes me wonder how much bow rise the boat gets when trimmed down and I question the actual hole shot. I'm sure those pics are cool to some but not to me, I suspect other skiers have the same reaction.

[DynaSkiPete]

I don't want to be accused of promoting my boats here, I'm just trying to answer your questions. I also have a blog which has more pictures of most everything and lots more information. www.dynaskiboats.com

 

Since someone asked here is a picture of the wrap around seating option. It can be ordered in all models. This is a 17.6 Open Bow.

 

 

It is unlikely anyone has skied behind a true new style Dyna-Ski as the old Hydrodnes and ski team "Dyna-Ski" knock offs the hull is 9" shorter. The 9" made a huge difference in the boat performance.

 

The 20' Barefooter is the same as the 20' Open Bow just without the sun deck. Interior area is huge but storage is a lot less obviously. People seem to value storage over passenger space. There is also storage next to the motor well. The right side has the battery and oil tank while the left one is for wet stuff.

 

 

 

 

The website has a variety of pictures on it for all skiers. The twins and triples can be made to tail stand very easy using motor trim. With two or three motors the driver can also force the bow down at any speed. Doing this induces bow steer which is dangerous even if you know about it. A single motored boat has very little if any bow rise. It can be fine tuned some using the trim or adding some weight in the very nose of the boat. Ski teams tend to add a lot of weight under the bow to help pull more skiers with minimal bow rise. Some drivers like a little bow rise. Not something you can do easily with an inboard.

[vtmecheng]

Sorry @DynaSkiPete, I wasn't clear. Can the 20.5 family skier come without the sun deck? That one doesn't show the option on the site.

 

I've always viewed bow rise as less desirable since it obstructs view, even if for a second, and reduces hole shot. Maybe it's just me.