Manon Costard rear binding

[Jaypro]

What is Manon using?

 

[BraceMaker]

Bicycle inner tube on a really basic rtp?

[Wish]

Home made RTP with heal strap.

[sheskis7]

The heel strap off a trick handle works great, lasts a long time

[skibug]

I use a kite board foot loop, they are made of bungy with a padded sleeve.

[mmosley899]

Something that could break her leg...or sprain her ankle.

[dchristman]

It's a slingback slipper, obviously!

[mwetskier]

the most important thing a rear binding can do is keep your back leg from flopping around and dragging in the turn, so it looks like her set up will work just fine.

[mmosley899]

@mwetskier I disagree, the most important thing a rear binding can do is let your foot come out freely if your front boot releases!

[Horton]

That's strap makes a lot of sense. If I were to use a kicker I think I would do the same thing. The thing I like about it is it increases the consistency how tightly her foot is in the kicker.

[Stevie Boy]

Agree with @Horton one reservation though, I use to modify my rtp so that my foot was real deep into the rtp, then I had one of those moments when the ski went out in front of me when I was on the back of the ski and in the air, front foot came out rear did not, the ski propellered and done my knee real bad.

But Manon is a much better skier than I am.

[OldboyII]

Year ago I was about to make a strap attached to rtp with dual lock or velcro (for safety reason) may be will make it this season. Do not like fore-aft movement in rtp.

[skialex]

@OldboyII dual lock will raise your RTP 5mm, you will definitely feel the difference, not saying you shouldn't try it.

[OldboyII]

@skialex I mean strap will be attached to rtp via dual lock or velcro.

Planning to make strap not much stretchy so it will disconnect when needed

[Horton]

so Reflex front Wiley rear is a deathtrap?

[skibug]

Been using this set up since 2007 or 2008....but I have Fluid Motion Evo series FB. I cannot count the number of times it has saved me from a one in one out situation, and probably certain injury, especially on tail blow outs. It has never been the culprit of injury (knock on wood) up to this point. I have almost always come out in an OTF situation and when I didn't it was of no consequence due to the inherent looseness of an RTP. I would not ski an RTP without some type of heal strap.

[BraceMaker]

Would anyone be interested in having a custom footbed for their RTP? That being a milled out EVA blank of either a right or left foot that you would have to cut the eva and glue it onto the plate and replace your rubber top strap? This would be a custom "cup" with a perimeter of ~1/2" or so of foam such that your heel would have a pocket to sit, some arch/foot contour and you could cut/sand it to the dimensions you wanted. Just curious.

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton Obviously that was partly sarcasm, but no. Waterskiing just isn't that dangerous.

 

However, it's certainly possible to have a setup that makes it safer, and it's even possible to have a setup that makes it pretty unsafe. Imagine for a moment a front boot that is set much too loose and a rear boot that cannot release. It's pretty certain that eventually that will cause an injury, although even in that exagerated case, it might take a while to get hurt.

 

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the Reflex/Wiley setup you mention. I think it may even be less safe overall than the famous @Wish setup that was completely non-releasable. But in the grand scheme of risks, I wouldn't say it's super-dangerous.

[BraceMaker]

@Than_Bogan I've seen the tight rear loose front result in a tib/fib fx of the back leg AND the tail of the ski split open their scalp. So for sure that's not a good recipe. My thought with dual non-release is your only real injury is going to be front ankle fractures from pegging the ball or Achilles related injuries on nose grabs but I think it would be relatively safer from the huge traumatic fractures.

 

I used FM quattro dual boots in both the single plate and split sole plate configuration and there was only one front ankle injury which I suspect would have been prevented if the front boot had a reflex style check strap. After pegging a ball my cuff was physically stuck on the lower ears of the shell and I had to remove the ankle joint screws to get the cuff returned to proper position.

 

[jimski]

We've been using this for years on our handle pass trick skis and no one has ever noticed ?

[Stevie Boy]

I like the Marahajh Heel cup idea would be better if it was moulded plastic and less height, something a bit more robust, I might have to get the Polymorph out and see if I can manufacture something.

I do not have one but I suppose you maybe able to 3d print something.

[Chef23]

@jimski the torque on a trick ski isn't nearly as great as the what you see on a slalom ski. It is probably still more risky than a regular RTP but less risky than it would be on a slalom ski.

[skialex]

@OldboyII not a bad idea at all. Just don't rely on dual lock's adhesive. Use bolts, washers and nuts (or rivets) to attach one side to the plastic loop bases and and the other on your not so stretchy strap.

Make a few, you are gona lose some anyway.

[dchristman]

For those that don't read manuals, here's what Reflex says. It seems that many use this setup, but I wonder if they even know that Reflex advises against it.

 

[Horton]

@dchristman yes it would be unsafe to use a full-height stiff High wrap binding with reflex. You hardly if ever see that. Reflex plus R Style or lose Wiley or a kicker is pretty standard and as safe as anything. I am perplexed that anyone thinks Manon's binding is odd or unsafe

[skibug]

not odd and definitely safer than without rear heal strap

[skibug]

 

This is what I use. I use the middle screw that holds down the rubber toe strap and slip either the middle or forward hole in the nylon webbing of the Dakine strap over that screw (on both sides); then clamp/sandwich everything back together.

 

 

[skibug]

The Dakine straps are meant to be toe straps for a kite board or something of the like. In my searches for an image I found these actual heal straps, called Duo Heal Straps, that looks like something that would work too.

 

 

[Horton]

@skibug that looks like something completely different. What Manon has on her binding makes sense to me because it looks like it gives her some security but she can step out easily if she wants. those Dakine heel straps look like you would not be able to get out without reaching now with your fingers and popping It Off. That seems super dangerous.

[Booze]

@BraceMaker - Regarding the molded footbed question, yes. I've been mulling over an attempt to create one.

What seems to help me is a bump or ledge that my toes can fit over and gain traction. With my favorite or 'best' plates, the fit and position of the toe strap allowed some of my toes to go past the edge of the plate and that ledge helped hold my foot secure.

(I use safety grip tape on my plates)

 

 

[BraceMaker]

Wiley's also has an option they call a CBO boot https://www.wileyski.com/product/cbo-rear-on-universal-plate/

Which is essentially the single overlay soft/lower version of their normal slalom boot. More of my concern for various rear boot options with hardshell fronts is that you've added a mechanical failure point (the release) to the front binding. This opens you up to the possibility of it becoming dislodged, being not fully engaged at the dock, or in the case of the reflex you can have it levered off the ledge. If it lets go incorrectly and your back leg is stuck in any sort of a binding that can be bad news.

[skibug]

@Horton Been using them for 10 years, no problems. Maybe I am just really lucky. I have come out of them numerous times when OTF and front binding releases. You have to set it up so that you have very little tension on it when your foot is in it. It is just enough to keep your foot in when you are in a situation that could lead to one in one out, Like your tail blowing our or you get pitched forward at the wake because you go flat early. I would argue that Manon's has to be flipped on and off with your fingers too, it looks pretty snug on her foot.

[keithh2oskier]

@Gloersen that belongs in the why the internet is great thread. ouch

[UWSkier]

Mon Dieu!

[Tom351]

You can see the entire fall in this clip..she took a huge slack hit at the very end:

 

 

 

 

 

[dchristman]

It looks like her back foot stayed in quite a while after the front released.

[keithh2oskier]

how did she not snap in half? That's brutal. What a tough ass competitor.

[vtmecheng]

Ouch! Sometimes you just need to let go. Now if I can just learn when...

[j2nh]

Was she okay? That was nasty. One in one out is everyone's nightmare.

[dvskier]

All of the top women can take a hit pretty good. She knows what she's doing. I'm sure skiing with Freddy helps also.

[ScottScott]

Yes, like @dchristman said.... front foot released, rear foot stayed strapped in pulling the ski tail up and over her. That rear foot holding on may have contributed to the extremity of the face plant too. That was an ugly face plant. At that speed that had to have hurt. She needs an HRT.

[jipster43]

I love my radar strada rear boot. Tight lower laces. No upper laces at all.

[eleeski]

A hardshell toe kicker is what she needs!

 

Eric

[BraceMaker]

Is that an HDPE frame to shove a boot into?

[eleeski]

The front boot is HDPE custom made for my intuition liner. Clips hold down the foot and a rubber band gives a snug feel on the ankle. Releases better than my old Radar while feeling similar.

 

The rear boot is a cut down rollerblade shell that I can kick into, liner and all. It allows lots of ankle movement but keeps my foot from slipping around. I'm pretty used to the feel of a liner so rubber banding the liner on feels right. Movement, possible one foot starts, comfortable feel and safety - it seems to work.

 

I don't use a heel strap for my trick ski. I still do stepovers. Releases when using a heel strap are very dangerous. The snowboard clip to keep the Reflex on the ski is common for those using heel straps for tricks.

 

Eric