Syndicate Hardshell Pre-Release

[emwheaton]

Hey everyone-

 

1st time poster but I've been a follower of the forum for a couple years now. Has anyone had repeated issues with their Syndicate (or other brand) Hardshell binding pre-releasing? I had 3 consecutive passess last night where the binding released when it shouldn't have (at wake crossing), despite tightening the DIN all the way up to the max setting for release. This morning I moved the hinge pin/ screw on the release mechanism up to the second hole location per the recommendations on other threads. I also checked the release mechanism spring; no issues.

 

Did some testing on the dock this morning before skiing and the release definitely felt tighter, but not quite as tight as I remember from testing/setting it initially this year, despite the DIN being set almost to the max (I don't remember exactly what the initial setting was, but it was towards the middle/low end). It felt tight enough and I was pretty confident that it wouldn't release early again. Sure enough, it released after wake crossing on my first pass.

 

I bought the binding new this year and have been using it all season without issue thus far and haven't made any adjustments to it since setting it initially.

 

Has anyone else experienced this or haveany advice/ suggestions on what may be causing this and how to fix it?

 

Thanks for the help

[turbogoose]

When I first started skiing with my new Syndicate hard-shell, the toe would come half-way out of the toe restraint bar when I would take a spill. As instructed by somebody at HO( ???), I moved the heel release steel bracing to the forward hole...there are only 2 holes for adjustment. I have not had any issues since.

[Jmoski]

Double check the bolts holding the toe loop in place are locked in, and all other connectors. I had my toe bar bolt on a reflex loosen up which caused pre-releasing just as you describe it.

 

There is a tremendous amount flex with modern skiis so it’s not uncommon for bolts to loosen up.

[emwheaton]

There's no play in the toe loop, but after looking over the binding again, the heel support mold was loose on the plate, and one corner of the mold actually broke away entirely...

 

 

[skihart]

Have a look at the spring that actually creates the force to keep the release tight. I have heard of a few cases where that spring cracks or fails causing this type of issue with the reflex style release. I think perhaps @FWinter had that problem a few months back.

https://reflexwaterskiusa.com/product/reflex-750-spring-set

[aupatking]

I second what @skihart said. It’s good to inspect those internals anyway. I’ve seen some of those springs totally broken in two from corrosion and use. Though, your mating surface on the plate beam busted can’t help either. The early ones broke easily and often. I was told they had that sorted out, but haven’t seen anything different with my own eyes.

[savaiusini]

@emwheaton I just got off the phone with your brother in law. He's going to send me some photos so I can see what's going on. It sounds like you've tried all the common solutions, hopefully I can get a better idea with his photos. This is not a common issue at all. Most likely we will replace the entire system for you. PM me if you have any other questions.

[emwheaton]

Thanks @savaiusini, the support is appreciated. We've been really happy with the binding up until this happened. Thanks to everyone else, as well, for your input.

[Jmoski]

Ah - could be your plate has the 1st generation heel supports that were 3D printed.

 

The tension springs in the 750 silveretta bindings now come greased to help prevent corrosion.

 

My reflex had the same issue, in the picture on the left is the new carbon fiber replacement, on the right is the 3D printed heel cup.

 

 

 

 

[savaiusini]

FYI, we have moved away from the 3D printed parts. They are now injection molded parts and VERY durable. We have yet to see one break. If anyone has a HO Syndicate Hardshell with a broken 3D toe or heel cup, email custserv@hosports.com and our team will send you the updated parts.

[emwheaton]

Looks like we did have one of the 1st generation 3D printed heel supports. The new version looks to be a significant improvement.

[adam]

savaiusini : This is my second year on the Syndicate hardshells. The first year the 3d printed plastic broke and the toe loop bent forward creating a gap and I had a pre-release crossing the wake. Before I had the pre-release, I could feel it moving as I crossed the wake. I ended up going back to the Reflex until HO sent me molded plastic bottom contours and a new toe loop. I've been skiing it this year with the new toe loop and the molded plastic foot bed. The molded plastic foot bed is much better and more durable. The toe loop is bent and I'm feeling movement in the front binding when I cross the wake. I don't feel safe at all and am ready to give up on these bindings. They were a good idea, but I don't think the metal is thick enough on the toe loop. So far, I haven't gotten a whole season out of them without some kind of issue and I'm sure they are out of warranty.

[savaiusini]

@adam - Very sorry to hear of your issues. Since their introduction, we have sold over 1000 Hardshell kits and with respect to the toe hoops, we have had maybe 2% of people report the issue you are experiencing. Most people have solved the issue by repositioning the release mechanism to the front hole of the mounting posts. This pushes the boot into the hoop and takes up any slack that may have developed.

 

If you have truly bent the hoop, I think you'll be happy to know that for 2019 we have developed a different toe hoop which is twice as thick and also covers more of the toe of the boot. These new hoops are backwards compatible with the 2017 and 2018 kits and if you can hold out until we get the parts in stock, we'll gladly send you a new hoop at no cost.

 

Rest assured that we want you to feel safe with our products and as long as I'm driving the bus here, we will ALWAYS err on the side of the customer when it comes to issues like this even if technically you are out of warranty. Feel free to PM me with any other questions or concerns.

[jhughes]

@savaiusini I'm glad that you guys are offering replacement footbed parts. My Syndicate hardshell has been sitting on the sidelines for this exact issue so I just sent an email to that address. Hopefully somebody is monitoring it. I used the contact us form on the HO Sports page a while back and never heard anything. I've also noticed the Silveretta release arms rust quite a bit, for what it's worth. I have rust up by the release itself and down by the screws that mate to the plate.

[Jmoski]

On the surface rust on the 750 silveretta arms - I have that as well. I wonder if the new stainless 840 silveretta binding available through reflex will fit on the HO?

 

Overall, I am very happy with the syndicate shell.

[skialex]

@Jmoski it will fit, just buy the option for the supershell that has the same bases as the HO/Edge

[savaiusini]

@jhughes Austin on my team has already responded your email. He'll have new molded parts sent today once he gets your shipping address. I wouldn't worry about a little bit of rust on the release mechanism. If you are using in salt or brackish water, be sure to thoroughly rinse and dry after each use.

 

@Jmoski and @skialex We have purposely decided to continue with the 750 release for 2019. In prototypes, we noticed significant heel lift due a slight change in the geometry of the release arms. At this time, I cannot recommend that anyone switch to the 840 release on the Syndicate Hardshell system.

[adam]

Thanks savaiusini . I'll wait until you have the thicker version of the toe hoop and will be much appreciative if you could send it to me. I'll PM you as well.

 

Adam

[adam]

@savaiusini

 

Are the thicker toe hoops in stock yet?

 

Thanks

[savaiusini]

@adam Yessir! give our Customer Service Dept a call at 8009384646 or PM me your info.

[syndicate]

Or call 800-wet-hoho :)

[gapullin]

I know I'm late to the party with this, not to mention slightly off topic. I've converted to the HO Hardshells for the 2018 season, and have had no issues so far, but no hard falls either.

My concern is with the 2017 VMax boots and repetitive premature breakdown, where the rear sole of the boot separates from the upper. In New Zealand last month I used a pair of brand new 2017s that I had left there (never used) the fall of 2017. I finished my first set and discovered separation of the rear sole from the upper on my right (rear) boot. As you'll see in the attached photos, my New Zealand buddies have experienced the same issue. In their case, the failure occurred just after the warranty expiration.

Has anyone else experienced this problem, and is HO aware? My boots are out of warranty, but the failure occurred with the first use, which I think should count for something. I don't like pulling out the "loyal customer card", but I am: I've used nothing but HO since 2004, with a new ski most every year.

Thanks for the input.

[gapullin]

Sorry, not sure why photos didn't post...

[gapullin]

I hope my above comments aren't construed as complaining about HO quality or customer service, as that's certainly not my goal. Just wanting to get a gauge as to whether this has been an inherent problem with the 2017 boots...

[BraceMaker]

@gapullin the phone number is above, I do know there was. String of sole plate separation at one point but I think they will work with you if you had an involved product.