Robert Pigozzi & Sacha Descuns Run 41 at the Botaski ProAm/Big Dawg!

[Drago]

@ozski Sarcasm

[bishop8950]

@Than_Bogan insightful post. Your “nerd skills” remain welcome and appreciated here.

 

Even if clusters are more common than people think, I wonder in the historic data set of our sport, how many times have we seen a natural cluster vs one of the tightly controlled variables being off?

[Butcher]

@horton shame on you . Those types of comment without being there is very bad for our sport . The Botasfamily is one of the greatest promotors for the sport in Europe . The only site in Europe with two new nautiques.Everything is homologated every day . All is checked and will be checked again before approval. Is it so hard to wait for that in place of this kind of rubish ?

[skibug]

Oh the DRAMA!!! :)

[MillerTime38]

@Than_Bogan 4 41’s from 4 different skiers in a day is like flipping heads 100 times in a row.

[liquid d]

Oh, don't get your panties in a wad folks!

Did Franco Harris actually make the immaculate reception?

Was Jorge Orta actually safe at first?

Did Park si Hun beat Roy Jones Jr?

Did Dez Bryant make that catch?...(yes, he did dammit)

Waterskiing has hit the bigtime! This is good news. You can argue, and have fans on both sides of the fence with their thoughts, and have a great sport! Remember, the world keeps turning, your kids keep growing, and the course is glass....go ski!

 

[MillerTime38]

@Than_Bogan 4 41s from 4 different skiers in a day would be like flipping heads 100 times in a row.

 

[skibug]

@liquid d hit the big time? I am sure you are making this statement in jest. I think there are about 22 people (sarcasm) that actually care about competitive slalom skiing results to pitch such a fuss over it.

[skibug]

Wouldn't it be so much simpler to get rid of most of the rules and just say....(and this is not in jest):

 

go whatever speed you want

make the driver a part of the competition (maybe you bring your own and it is a team thing, driver ranking, etc.) and allow them to "help" the skier, boat guides are just for reference

get rid of needing to go through the start and end gates (relative to the skier, still need them for the boat ZO/gps speed)

get around as many buoys as you can at the shortest line length possible

 

This would actually expand the competition pool, bringing in the top amateurs to the mix. Making it a driver/skier team thing would expand the number of participants at tournaments, etc.

 

I would consider myself an above average skier; but, I will never ski in a tournament. I consider myself an advanced driver (I can pull skiers through 39 off) and would entertain participating as that element of a team.

 

Bring on the hate for us innovators!!

[MattP]

Today’s webcast.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=myMY-xDpxt8

[andjules]

I have heard Europeans make occasional criticisms about generous driving at some of their local tournaments, but I've never heard any one cast doubt on the Botas' site, nor Ricardo Botas' driving (I don't know if he was driving these passes or not; but he's usually behind the wheel at important Intl events hosted in Europe). The guy has built a great site and a great reputation.

[WaterSkier12]

Liquid d

 

That ball hit the ground before Harris corralled it, and

Orta was clearly out, Worrell was on the bag and Denkinger was blind!

;-)

[Than_Bogan]

@MillerTime38 Hah! But no. 2^100 is an incomprehensibly large number.

[dbojan]

Is it possible the new Nautique is that much better of a pull?

[VONMAN]

New Nautique + new Zero-Off software upgrade = 41off??? Who knows?

[The_MS]

Is 41 easier at 36 then 34? I would think speed would help. If we have guys running 41 twice in same event here in the US at 34, I dont see why its a big deal if the pros are doing it overs seas. I used to think 3 @ 43 was not possible. That was due to being in the boat for many of CPs attempts at the WR. These guys are growing up knowing that 41 is runable. We thought 39 was impossible when we were younger. I agree with @VONMAN

[slow]

Seems to me if you’re a moderator of a site and make accusations you should present all the facts and people to back it up or wait till you have them.

[eleeski]

Here's the real story: Nautique was paying these guys to sandbag behind the 200 and other manufacturers. Once the new boat was released, the skiers were free to ski up to their potential.

 

Those skiers who didn't get paid are complaining about the new boat, of course.

 

And Regina is rocking the Malibu still.

 

My sources are very reliable - IPA channeling is always right.

 

Eric

[wawaskr]

Wow, Nautique is the boat to buy if you want to ski your BEST!! :p

[BraceMaker]

@wawaskr That's the sort of stuff that caused me to cancel my waterski magazine subscription years ago. 5 tips to improve your wake crossing. Buy a new Malibu. Buy a new Malibu....

[wawaskr]

@BraceMaker kinda like what I have been reading here lately....

[MillerTime38]

@Than_Bogan that’s exactly what I am saying so unlikely you might call it impossible

[MickeyThompson]

I read this forum almost every day in hope of reading inside information about pro skiers, pro events, or just any general information about the elite in our sport. Thank you @Horton for providing that.

@Horton please don’t let the negitive comments keep you from providing those in-sites in the future.

[Horton]

@MickeyThompson I call it as I see it. Sometimes it's popular and sometimes it's super unpopular.

[eleeski]

If there is hard evidence of anything, it belongs here. Speculation and innuendo don't belong - especially from a moderator. "Something not right" is not hard evidence and can be very damaging to some innocent people.

 

Lots of views because of a contrived controversy isn't popular or unpopular. It's wrong.

 

Belittling exceptional performances instead of enjoying the athletics - it's just sad.

 

Got to watch the train wreck.

 

Eric

[LeonL]

I don't know the schedule or format. Were those preliminary round scores? Have the finals been run? Were there finals or just "rounds". Were the scores posted on page one of this thread the final placements?

[Horton]

https://www.iwwfed-ea.org/classic/18ESP001/

[BraceMaker]

Hasn't the webcast announced Will Asher? Went out on the lake and it changed?

[ghutch]

I'll throw a dime into the mix instead of 2 cents fwiw. Maybe the 1st skier who ran 41 yesterday jazzed everyone else up letting them know 41 was possible and this in turn upped all the other skiers confidence and aggressiveness to run it. Seeing that line run had to be hella exciting and got everyone fired up. Just throwing this thought out there. But I tend to agree if Horton posted it on good authority the skiers themselves said something was wrong, maybe it was.

[ConPexEr]

@MattP you should do that math and see how these scores compare to scores for these skiers in the past few years.

 

 

[MattP]

@ConPexEr I can work on it. Currently out of town but will take a look tomorrow.

[CBR51]

I find it hard to believe that Jon would post on Instagram running 41 and getting 1@43 ( as posted in another thread) if the pro’s didn’t think it was legit! Awesome skiing!

[rico]

The only possible explanation is that the site skis really good, the boat feels good and the driving is great. The questions is whether it is that much better than other sites for skiers to up their scores by 2 to 4 buoys?

 

I think it is likely that any of those 4 skiers runs 41. What makes it unexpected is that they all did it at the same time.

 

@Mattp Sacha did fun 41 in a record twice in 2016. It wasn’t World or European record but it should be a French record. The scores are showing on the international waterski federation site.

 

Other questions people will wonder now the door is open:

 

- what prop used on the nautique?

- what space shuttle mode was used on one of the 27 hydro gates?

- Were regular or switch ropes used?

- Was the Bimini on?

- Water temp?

- did they use gas, ethanol, lpg?

 

Last thing will anyone dare post a survey to ask ballers if they think scores are legit?

 

 

[rockdog]

@CBR51 Travers you realise has been sponsored by Nautique since birth right?

[Than_Bogan]

Warning: Math that no one cares about!!

 

You were warned.

 

Let's say that each of these skiers has a 1% chance to run 41. That seems low to me especially since two have done it before. If they are completely uncorrelated, then the chance of all 4 doing it is 10^-8 or 1 in 100

million. Not super likely.

 

100 heads in a row has a probability of about 10^-30. It's impossible to overstate how different these numbers are. The former will occur more than a billion trillion times per occurence of the latter. That's not a billion or a trillion, that's a trillion TIMES a billion.

 

Exponentiation is even less intuitive than clustering...

[eleeski]

@Than_Bogan Does that mean I CAN win the lottery?!

 

Not to nitpick but there were 4 rounds so it's one in 25 million. Ten times better than winning the lottery. People do win the lottery.

 

And if you consider the long odds of actually being where life is now, comparatively, running 41 should be common. Next year it might be...

 

Eric

[DefectiveDave]

All I'm hearing are some anonymous accusations of something not being right. Show me a lapse in the tournament procedures or proof of something specific and I'll listen. I agree that suspicion is healthy given past events, but I'm inclined to give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

All of these guys appear capable of running 41' off, and a few had already done it. Yes, it seems low probability they would do it all at once, but low probability stuff happens all the time. Regardless of the final outcome here, time will tell us if these scores were a fluke or indicative of things to come.

[Horton]

@DefectiveDave do you think journalists should be able to keep their sources anonymous?

[mwetskier]

@Horton -journalist or not, anonymous sources are not in *any* way ' proof ', and unproven reports gathered *only* from anonymous sources are no better than flat out rumors. that said even flat out rumors deserve their place in the public dialog. as always, imo.

 

[CBR51]

@rockdog Yes. Probably true. But I still don’t think he would do that risking loosing respect if it were not true from fellow skiers. Just my thought?

[Horton]

@mwetskier there is no proof of anything. All I ever claimed is that skiers on site said something seems wrong. No one has claimed to know what is wrong. No one has claimed to know that happened (intentional or accidental).

 

I have actually heard a lot of conspiracy theories but I know that most conspiracy theories

turn out to be false. The fact remains that the scores are unusual.

[Zman]

Did anyone post the final scores?

[Drago]

@Zman Horton posted the scores 10 hrs ago ^^

[APB]

Did anyone including skiers or officials enter a formal protest? If not I’d say scores are as solid as ever and onto the next! I only saw insta posts from happy skiers so far, nothing negative aside from these threads.

[MillerTime38]

@Than_Bogan heads 100 times in a row would be 1/2^100

[LeonL]

The final round scores seem more in line, and no one has really addressed that.

[BraceMaker]

 

[BraceMaker]

 

[aupatking]

What makes -41 too easy? Is the wake that much better? These guys have been skiing these Nautiques for a while, so that’s unlikely. It doesn’t appear -43 was any easier than normal.

How much can a driver help at -41 without eventually taking the boat away, or giving the skier slack? I suppose there’s boat path video because this was a Pro event. So, I seriously doubt there was anybody swerving other than the skier. And with video, we’ll end up seeing that.

Was the ZO tweak a very slow side of time tolerance?

You guys need to lay off Horton. He clearly said Pro skiers at the event were saying it. Not onlookers or bystanders. I just wonder, did one of the guys who ran -41 say that? To me, that would be the true qualifier of the statement.

To give an anonymous voice to a participant is perfectly acceptable, and the only way whistleblowing works (not that this is what is happening here).

[MrJones]

(FWIW) I was speaking with a skier from Europe yesterday. They don't follow BOS and were unaware of any controversy. They said that this was an extremely good side where people commonly had PBs and the high scores were not surprising.