Robert Pigozzi & Sacha Descuns Run 41 at the Botaski ProAm/Big Dawg!

[DefectiveDave]

@Horton,

 

Anonymous sources can remain anonymous, that's their prerogative and I support it. Furthermore, they can be informative and break a story. However, they can't be the basis of a final judgement.

 

I'm simply saying that it's too soon to jump to conclusions.

[Wish]

Just how close were these guys from running 41 as a PB?. 1--2--maybe 3 buoys tops. How many have run it in practice more then we know or think? Stars have lined up before in athletic events where the impossible became possible. Maricle On Ice 1980

[disland]

If something was "off" wouldn't they have gotten more than 1@43?

[DanE]

@Wish Pigozzi was the only one who hasn't run 41 before and he had 4@41 previously.

[Chef23]

@disland I think even if something is off running 41 is incredibly hard and obviously 43 that much harder.

 

One thing that is curious to me was that the scores in the BigDawg division weren't that high. Not sure if that was because of the skiers there it seemed many of the top skiers beside Sund weren't there.

[Than_Bogan]

@MillerTime38 Yes. And that's about 10^-30.

[eleeski]

On a related note, Chris Froome was cleared to race the Tour de France today. Accusations, innuendo and controversy from improperly leaked information has severely damaged his reputation. I'm sure the public outcry will continue but WADA reached the official conclusion.

 

Without specific discrepancies (which were there for Froome) and more importantly, without specific violations confirmed by IWWF the controversy part of this thread should not exist.

 

Congratulations to the athletes for their exceptional performances.

 

Eric

[Andre]

@DanE

...and that 4 @ 41 was impressive at the Masters! That score on Robyn Lake is amazing thinking all of the great skiers that have been there over the recent years!

 

Edit:Was 2 @ 41... still good! Thanks @Gloersen

[Drago]

@eleeski Completely off topic, but I have to say,Not Even Close to Being Related...

No accusation:Froome failed a doping control. No question.

No innuendo:Froome failed a doping control. No question.

Damage to his reputation is because he failed a doping control.

The controversy is how it was dropped without his fulfilling the necessary requirements to prove how his body contained twice the Upper Limit of the drug.

They have accepted the explanation of "I can't explain". Basically the equivalent of Floyd Landis saying he has a naturally high synthetic testosterone levels.

 

[LeonL]

@Drago lmao. Naturallly and synthetic! Whoever Floyd Landis is, he's a brainiac obviously.

[DanE]

@Gloersen @Andre

The 4@41 was at Travers LCQ

[Andre]

@DanE

Aaaaaaaaaaah,you're totally right .It was the week before the Masters and the LCQ.

 

[UWSkier]

This whole thing seems somewhat libelous to me. This tournament was run by highly respected, upstanding members of the ski community who also happen to partially make a living running a waterski school. Unsubstantiated assertions of possible impropriety (intentional or unintentional) without formal complaints or an inquest don't belong on the internet IMO. If skiers felt somehow cheated, let them make their case.

 

Until I see something that says otherwise, I say kudos to those skiers who went out and slayed this weekend in Spain! Wish I could have been there to see it live and I'd love a chance to ski there someday.

[UWSkier]

of course, the previous is just IMO and not intended to be a shoot-the-messenger or anything of that nature...

[skierjp]

I would shoot the messenger. Very unprofessional!!!!!!

[slow]

Which manufacturer has the most different athletes to run 41@36 on thier skis.

[Horton]

@slow irrelevant and off topic

 

Without checking the record... I think HO, Connelly, Mapple, OBrien and Goode each have two. If CP ran 41 on Monza, then HO has 3. this is close but I can't care enough to actually check the records. CP is the second score for about 1/2 of this list.

[Horton]

actually O'Brien might have 3. again way off topic.

[slow]

Thanks for the off topic info

[Dirt]

I don't have a dog in this fight. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think anyone has questioned the integrity of the Botas Family or anyone in particular.

 

It sounded like they were saying someone may have made an error. Do a bunch of PBs deserve scrutiny? Were skiers saying it felt too easy?

 

Will this cluster of 41s repeat? Maybe the new Nautique is that good. Maybe no dip/trough makes a huge difference at 41 and 43. Time will tell.

 

Did the scores get better as the drivers got more practice and skiers got more

comfortable with the drivers, boats and site? Did conditions get better or worse after the cluster of 41s? How many and what percentage of skiers exceeded their average?

 

The topic and controversy is interesting. Is this any different than sports casters talking about cork bats, doping, underinflated footballs, controversial calls by umpires, tennis nets too tight or too loose, etc?

 

Libelous? I think more people will want to ski there behind Ricardo in a Nautique chasing a PB.

 

 

[Dirt]

As a precaution I am confiscating Hortons passport and advising him he is no longer welcome in the EU or New Jersey.

[ForrestGump]

You know, just because horton runs this site doesn't mean he can't have an opinion about something. No "safe spaces" are needed in waterskiing.

[AdamCord]

@Horton is reporting what he heard from skiers who were actually there. Also is it really that crazy to be skeptical when there have been no 41s run all year by anyone not named Nate, then 4 different people do it at one tourney?

[LeonL]

There you go. @AdamCord succinctly sums up the previous 4 pages of this thread.

[bkreis]

will and jon have been waaayyyy overdue...pigozzi has been knocking on the door ALOT..and descuns has also been overdue...I have video of the TC, from after the tournament, with him saying the course is within a cm of tolerance...so GREAT skiing to those four guys!! nice to see people progressing and pushing each other to get better!!

[rico]

Is it possible that all those skiers had great days at the same time including Tgas running 5@41 and Neveu running 4@41 3 times? Unlikely but very possible.

 

Is it possible that the TC or someone made a mistake and don’t even know It? Unlikely but possible.

 

Let’s see how many 41s go down next week- end!

[HighAltitude]

Pathetic! Either man up and file a protest or say congrats to those who skied awesome. To state "something was off" and have it posted by somebody else is pretty weak.

[Chef23]

@HighAltitude I am not sure what there is to protest. From what I have heard nobody is saying they were treated any differently than anyone else that was skiing in the event. I don't believe there was anything nefarious going on. I do find it curious that so many skiers skied at the top of their capabilities in the same event. Combine that with skiers that were on the site communicating to Horton that things didn't "feel" right make it worthy of discussion.

 

It sounds like the conditions were the same for everyone at the event so I don't think it calls into question were the results (who won) fair.

[Drago]

@HighAltitude My understanding is skiers that skied well said something was off.

[HighAltitude]

The problem is... a post like this casts a "caveat" on somebody's performance. I'm not a great skier by any means, but I hate to see this in any sport. Having taught probability and statistics in college, I can say without a doubt that this sport would tend to cluster it's PBs. The site, boat, driver, equipment and conditions are a factor in this sport. A 2019 SN could account for everything or...it could count for nothing.

[9400]

Looks like they were using a section that stayed on the tow bar, my guess is that a non switch rope was used on a switch section. When perfect pass and accuski were in their early days we had a tournament using boats with each. I was in charge of the ropes and noticed 2 top level women skiers (that had skied numerous events at our site) were skiing a pass better than I had ever seen them ski, I went to check to make sure they were using the right rope for each boat. They had gotten them mixed up so we restarted the event. Not saying that happened here but it could have.

[MattP]

@bishop8950 well said!

[UWSkier]

@bishop8950 great post, and I agree. Extra scrutiny when something exceptional happens is warranted. However, there was a declaration made in the post that started this whole thing that skiers were saying these scores weren't legit. That's a hell of a statement to make without proof IMO. There's a pretty big chasm between "something seems off. Let's investigate." and "these scores aren't legit."

[Chad_Scott]

This is a site to keep up with what is going on. Everyone is jumping on @horton for reporting what he had heard. I am pretty sure @horton is not the only person in the ski community to hear that the skiers were commenting on how the passes felt to them. Most of these guys know what a normal 41 off feels like. Horton was only reporting that a few of the guys had reported that the 41s seemed easier than they are used to. Horton wasn’t in Spain only reporting the information he had received. Isn’t that exactly why most of us look at this site. For information regarding what is going on when we can’t be there. Was Horton not supposed to report the rumblings he was hearing.

[bishop8950]

Thanks @mattP and @UWskier. I have Chiefed a handful of tournaments including a record tournaments with Pro Skiers. If I saw a cluster of exceptional scores I would be thinking "ok, whats going on, lets investigate". I am not making any implications of what went through the minds of the recent officials. My point is its ok to question.

[Horton]

@Chad_Scott thanks

[bishop8950]

Crap, I mistakenly deleted my post of 10:00am 7/3. It said

 

@9400 a great example of how a tournament hosted at a site with high quality people, a perfect course, perfect driving, perfect ropes and perfect boats could produce exceptional results through simple and unintentional human error.

 

Upon learning of extraordinary scores from any event, I expect most peoples responses to fall in one of the following three camps:

 

1) Great Job and congrats!

2) Really? Are we sure?

3) No way, I don’t buy it, didn’t happen, I don't need evidence

 

Of course we all have the right to choose our camp. Debating which camp is the right one is futile. The part about this that bothers me is those that insist 1) is right 2) is rude and 3) is just flat out wrong. I am in camp 2) and think about it like this:

 

Were the scores possible? Yes.

Were the scores exceptional? Yes.

Did they happen in sanctioned events? Yes.

Is it still possible something was amiss? Yes.

Are the scores valid unless proven otherwise? Absolutely.

Is it reasonable to question the exceptional results? I think yes.

 

This said, we should be carefull from keyboards thousands of miles away and leave it to the hardworking officials of the events. But, if we as members of the community don’t maintain a culture where its ok to question results, the integrity of scores and records will be at risk.

 

[ConPexEr]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BksdExHgq8B/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1su4hbrlwpll6

[BraceMaker]

Crap is the creaky rowboat offline?