Who is going to Nationals?

[Horton]

Hell has frozen over and I am going to Wichita. You guys can hassle me all day every day in the MasterCraft booth.

 

Sooooo who else is going?

[Zman]

Going. First time.

[gjohnson]

I’ll be rocking the mic all week

[MarkM]

I’m in

[JWebSki]

First time as well

[mbabiash]

Come ski with me @Horton if you get done time.

[schroed]

I'm going. I got my wind practice at regionals. I should be all set for Wichita.

[Horton]

@mbabiash time? Are you kidding me I'm going to be there for a solid week.

[Horton]

@schroed you are still a terrible terrible human being but yes your windy regionals ride was impressive.

[mmosley899]

Yep, I'll be there all week in the MOB booth. Come check it out.

[klindy]

Be there all week from the board meeting to the final bell. ACJ on a different lake every day. Say hello!!

[Booze]

I'm in!

 

[Texas6]

Do planes fly into Kansas?

...kidding!!!!

[AdamCord]

@schroed you aren't kidding about the wind

 

 

[Horton]

ok we are all going to party at @mbabiash's house. Except @schroed. He is not welcome because he is a terrible human.

[skihart]

@Horton ask @mbabiash to cook you up a steak dinner on the BBQ. The man has talents.

[mbabiash]

Thanks @skihart that was a fun evening at the boarding school but the company was way better than the food.

 

[Triplett]

@AdamCord all crosswind... yay?

[mbabiash]

@Horton I would totally have a party over here but the wife would kill me.

[skihart]

@mbabiash just tell her it was all Coop’s idea. I am pretty sure he would roll with that if you promise to take him back to @theboardingschool

[JeffSurdej]

Entries are up over last year so that’s good. 684 as if this morning

[Horton]

@JeffSurdej what can I do to get @schroed disqualified? This tournament is only for good humans right?

[richfoster]

I'm in. Closest one for me. Only a 2 hour drive. Nice site. Great people!

[Kelvin]

Will be there at the board meeting on Monday. Hopefully skiing on Wednesday if my back cooperates. Then sticking around to webcast America’s Cup.

[lpskier]

Come see me at the WOW Sports Compete App booth! I’ll be there all week.

[eleeski]

Looking forward to seeing a new site!

 

Eric

[mmosley899]

@mbabiash better send her on a vacay... Looks like the party is at your place!!

[schroed]

I'm trying to figure out who's going but the seeding report on USA Waterski's website for Nationals keeps crashing. I'm guessing Horton has been hacking the database to try to get me out of the tournament and improve his seeding.

 

@JeffSurdej - Do you know if the seeding report is working on USA Waterski's website?

 

Also, I'd like to request the disqualification of @Horton based on rule 7.07.D which states "Any contestant (or his representative) or official whose conduct is deemed unsportsmanlike or whose conduct may cause discredit to USA-WSWS, either on or off the tournament site before, during,or after the tournament, may be disqualified from participation in the tournament." -- Clearly his harassment is unsportsmanlike and his hacking of the USA Waterski database has caused discredit to USA-WSWS

[klindy]

@schroed I can arrange that,

[Horton]

@schroed I'm pretty sure trying to destroy a man's boat before he even gets to drive it or ski behind it is the worst kind of unsportsmanlike conduct

[JeffSurdej]

@schroed it is down,m working on it as we speak, 700 entries of this morning, most since 2010, 57 open skiers, last year 15 open skiers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jody_Seal]

@JeffSurdej

How many of those are mandated open skiers??

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@JeffSurdej and how many of those are throwing their hat in the ring for an extra ride in the America’s cup qualifier? That’s a good thing, we just need to be clear on the how and why so the statistics are understood.

[JeffSurdej]

@Jody_Seal I’ll check when I get home. I don’t think it’s many too be honest. Most of those on the list would ski open anyways but there might be a dozen that are there b/c the have no choice. @Bruce_Butterfield bruce I would say most of them are doing it b/c of America’s Cup but that’s what we wanted. There wasn’t much incentive before to attend as a pro or open skier. Hopefully this tourney changes that. When is the last time we had 14 open men jumpers. Hell in the last 2 years most of the men’s jumpers only skied the night jump and not the nationals.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

I'll be there most of the week, come by the Radar booth and say hey! Scoop up a 2019 Vapor while your at it!

[Jody_Seal]

@JeffSurdej

I guess your idea of an open skier and mine are quite a bit different. On the US rankings list there is a 20' disparity between the top 4 true open jumpers that jump 6 foot vs the mandated 5 and half foot jumpers!! kinda like tackling dummy's!

What ya going to do when you have a mandated skier skiing in two events at one time due to overall? We had that pop up at our regionals.

Sorry the level 10 mandate is still very unfair and unnecessary.

[Jody_Seal]

Just a Brief thought on how absurd and unfair the level 10 mandate is!

The slalom side of this mandate aligns with what it takes to be qualified at the world championships in any of the age brackets including open and that is #15 on the world standings list.

 

(Note) the current world standings list is dynamic and changes from week to week as does the AWSA rankings list..

 

Will start with open men: IWWF #15 is Carlo Allais with 3@10.25/3@41. The lowest mandated skier is Tom Brantly at 1.5@10.25/1.5@41! Ok a buoy and half difference!

Women: #15 on the IWWF open womens is Alisa Shevknova 1.5@10.75 /1.5@39. lowest mandated women skier Kasidy Hawkins with .5@10.75/.5@39, a one buoy difference!

 

Now where the level 10 ideology mandate becomes Absurd is in tricks and jump!!

 

#15 on the IWWF open jump list Emile Ritter 64.5M/211' on a 6 foot ramp. lowest Mandated US open skier Cole kalkbrenner with 58M/192' (on a 5 and half foot ramp in a class C tournament.) Almost a 20' difference! AND all the mandated 5 and half foot jumpers scores are 20' shorter then the top four 6' US jumpers!

Tricks:IWWF #15 Nick Bennatti 10383. US lowest mandated open trick skier Stephen Brooks 6780 in a class C! A 3,603 point difference!

 

Not going to go into the Masters divisions as the same pattern exists in the mandated skiers there also. If we are to mandate skiers into the open/ Elite divisions at least put together a balanced mandate across the board that matches world open elite levels!

 

As far as the amount of mandated skiers in the open division this years nat's is not relevant as it pertains to this years America cup entry's. the last couple past extra nationals events (night jump) entry criteria was a different system and not based on the nationals entry requirement. So we are not comparing apples to apples.

[oneski]

I’ll be there...Skiing in Men’s 5 slalom on Wednesday.

[eleeski]

@Jody_Seal At least there's a few skiers in the MM tricks division at Nationals. Of course, I'm not guaranteed to win - having some skiers to compete with this year.

 

To your credit, jump is different. Speed and ramp height variables make it a lot more difficult. I haven't got a good solution.

 

I just know that falling halfway through my hand pass still gave me a point total that beat ALL the Men's divisions except Open (and Boys) at Regionals. MM seems to work for tricks.

 

I got a letter last fall saying I was mandated but the list now shows that I'm not currently mandated? Still proudly honoring the division by choosing to ski it!

 

I hope we can figure this out so people are happy and the MM (and MW) divisions are full.

 

Eric

[JeffSurdej]

@Jody_Seal I dont disagree with you on T and J, I have said from the start that using 3% is not a good way to do this and this is evident in T and J due to the low # of participants. I think the idea around L10 and forcing some level of skier into open is important for our sport as the # of complaints of sandbagging over the years has led to loss of members but the way we are doing L10 at the moment is not as good as it can be and we are learnign as we go, here is what I would change.

 

1) eliminate overall from L10 mandate, a skier must be good enough in their individual event to be forced into L10

2) get rid of the one score in class C, it must be an average at least to go into L10, anyone can have a break out day or get a hold of one big jump, but a skier should have to average that score to be forced into L10

3) Use IWWF rankings to set the L10 rating.

 

Now there are some of these proposals by Skier Qualifications Committee being brought up at the Monday board meeting...Not sure if this will past well but here it is

 

SQC Report

 

2019 LEVEL 10

For this analysis, we used the US Ranking List for Ski Year 2017 (“US17”) (the latest year with complete data)

and the May 2018 World Ranking List (“WRL”) (http://www.iwsf.com/wrl_0418/index.htm).

For each division/event, the choice highlighted in Yellow is the preference of the SQC.

Open Men Slalom

The current 2018 cutoff is 6@39off.

Choices for 2019:

1. 6@39off – Top 3% of US skiers (14) based on the US17 list and is #42 on the WRL.

2. 2@41off – 9 US skiers based on the US17 list and is #25 on the WRL.

3. 2.5@41off – 9 US skiers based on the US17 list and is #20 on the WRL.

4. 3@41off – 7 US skiers based on the US17 list and is #15 on the WRL.

Open Men Trick

The current 2018 cutoff is 6600 points.

Choices for 2019:

1. 5740 points – Top 3% of US skiers (14 Skiers, 11 Non Junior Skiers) based on the US17 list

and is #94 on the WRL.

2. 7670 points – 6 US skiers based on th

2019 LEVEL 10

Open Men Overall

The current 2018 cutoff is 2956 NOPs points

Choices for 2019:

1. 2956 NOPS points – Top 3% of US skiers (7 Skiers/5 Non-Junior Skiers) based on the US17

list and is #60 on the WRL.

2. 3235 NOPS points - #35 on the WRL. Represents fewer than 5 US skiers (2) and will

eliminate OMO from Level 10, as would any score over 2956.

Open Women Slalom

The current 2018 cutoff is 6@38off.

Choices for 2019:

1. 5.5@38off - #25 on the WRL and (9 Skiers, 8 Non Juniors)

2. 6 @ 38off – Top 3 (5.75@38off) based on US17 list, (7 Skiers/6 Non Juniors) and #20 on

WRL.

Open Women Trick

The current 2018 cutoff is 5700 points

Choices for 2019:

1. 5700 points – Top 3% of US Skiers (11 Skiers/7 Non Juniors) based on the US17 list and #42

on the WRL.

2. 6487 points – (7 Skiers/5 Non Juniors) based on the US17 list and #32 on the WRL

3. 6855 points – (6 Skiers/4 Non Juniors) based on the US17 list and #25 on the WRL. This

will eliminate OWT from Level 10 unless we include Juniors.

Open Women Jump and Overall

Not Applicable since there are less than 5 Skiers based on Top 3%.

Master Men Slalom

The current 2018 cutoff is 1@41off

Choices for 2019

1. 1@41off – Top 3% of US Skiers (19 skiers) based on US17 list and #7 on the 35+WRL, #10

on the 45+WRL and #6 on the 55+WRL

2. 2@41off – Because # 1 is too low!

2019 LEVEL 10

Master Men Trick

The current 2018 cutoff is 4310 points

Choices for 2019:

1. 4310 points – Top 3% of US Skiers (5 Skiers) based on the US17 list and #11 on the

35+WRL, #4 on the 45+WRL and #1 on the 55+WRL

2. 5000 points – Anything more than 4310 will eliminate MMT from Level 10 due to less than 5

skiers.

Masters Men Jump and Overall

Not Applicable since there are less than 5 Skiers based on Top 3%.

Masters Women Slalom

The current 2018 cutoff is 1.5@38off

Choices for 2019

1. 1.5@38off – Top 3% of US Skiers (6 skiers) based on US17 list, #8 on the 35+WRL and #2

on the 45+WRL

2. I know #1 feels right, but I want to be different.

Masters Women Trick Jump and Overall

Not Applicable since there are less than 5 Skiers based on Top 3%.

[usaski1]

Going! 3rd nats for me.. I'm hoping for some regionals redemption... its pretty bad to blow your opener on your own lake... but.. I was not the only one!

[unksskis]

@JeffSurdej how are some able to jump in Open, and thus America's Cup, with no scores and an average of 0?

[JeffSurdej]

@unksskis example please?

[unksskis]

 

[unksskis]

@JeffSurdej please note the bottom 3 skiers

[JeffSurdej]

@unksskis Archie is in wrong division, he is skiing IM, Storm is OMJ rated, not sure why it has him with 0 here.

 

casey mommmer may very well not be qualified to ski in it

 

[Jody_Seal]

@JeffSurdej

"I think the idea around L10 and forcing some level of skier into open is important for our sport as the # of complaints of sandbagging over the years has led to loss of members but the way we are doing L10 at the moment is not as good as it can be and we are learnign as we go,"

 

In this year alone I have seen more "Sand-Bagging" then ever before! Men 3-4 and 5 skiers pulling up right in front of the mandated score. trick skiers putting together runs that just stop shy of the mandated score. I think the southern region has now suffered the worse in participation due to the mandate. I had a very long sit down with Mr Bedsole and he is affected: "Why Mandate a 55 year old skier to ski against a 35 year old skier?" Mr Bedsole continued saying he could and at this conjecture would rather take his wife on a cruise rather then go ski nat's. But that seems to be the consense of many a southern region and other regions skiers.

 

"complaints of sandbagging over the years has led to loss of members"

Were the affected mandated and potentially mandated (close) skiers polled about this?

No!! they were not. Why??

In this years national open men jump there are 5 mandated jumpers were they asked if they wanted to be mandated?

Nationals Open men slalom every one of those mandated skiers are regular players at "Pro events"

Open men tricks entered at nationals mandated 5 skiers. there was a time when open tricks could not be even entered unless a skier skied over 8500 points or were an open overall skier. were these 5 mandated skiers polled ? Don't think so!

MM tricks: I know bedsole was not polled and he did not enter guess he decided a cruise was on the plate. Oh! but wait!! Russell is entered!! probably because he actually has a choice !! open or MM.

I guess I could go on with the numbers it is pretty easy to obtain but the statement: "I think the idea around L10 and forcing some level of skier into open is important for our sport as the # of complaints" is truly one of bias and the complainers were influential squeeky wheels that got the grease.

 

Some suggestions!!:

1.You are mandating skiers into Elite divisions at least go off of Elite level numbers. It was suggested at our regional meeting to use #15 on the world rankings list. why #15? it represents what it takes ski at world championships in all levels and individual cases.

2. Mandated skiers should not have to ski respective regional tournaments just like open division.

3. If further ability competitive ideology is present, rather then mandate- create a championship level where divisions are mixed, seeded and scores go to their respective divisons for overall. another words take men 1,2 and 3 (2019 new rule for jumping in men 3) run seeded 5 ' skiers then seeded 5 and a half skiers. I know Corbin would like to ski against Stephen, Graham, Johnny B, Quinn and many others under true ability level competition rather then these guy's being tackling dummies for Freddy and Zack (professional athletes ).

4. The Florida federation has conceded not to recognize level 10 for it's 2019 state championship and is working on providing a platform such as described above. Also talking to many members and southern region council it will be discussed and voted upon at the winter meeting whether or not to adhere to level 10 mandate for its 2019 regional championships and again a platform for true competition will be discussed.

 

 

 

 

"I think the idea around L10 and forcing some level of skier into open is important for our sport"

We continue to make rules in the name of The sport or to increase participation but bottom line is we continue to make rules that drive skiers away, Why not take a realistic competitive approach rather then A socialistic one size fits all approach.

 

 

Jody Seal VP/Florida Federation! yea I said I would not but I did!!!

 

 

 

[Chad_Scott]

And on the same opinion. @JeffSurdej As we discussed the “organization” forced many of us into level 10. I still don’t understand why we don’t share the same benefits of the level 10 Open. So are we not all the same. Only one portion of level 10 is slated for mandatory attendance at nationals. Also why are there class C scores utilized for the MM level 10. There is no class C scores for the open divisions of level 10. Are we level 10 (but not really) as I said to you in person. Don’t see how it can be different. Level 10 is level 10

[Chad_Scott]

Correction mandatory attendance at regionals to attend nationals.

[Horton]

This was a fun thread... do I need to move it to the politics section? Can't we all just talk crap about @schroed for trying to sink my boat?