Ski Upgrade - Carbon Omni VS Senate Alloy, 67' or 69'?

[Kentjacobsen92]

Hi All,

 

I'm looking to upgrade my ski from a 69' Fluid Zion to something more advanced. I'm 178cm (5.85 ft) tall and weight around 95kg (209 lbs), and at the moment i complete passes at 46kph (28Mph) with a PB of 5@49kph. I've been free skiing my whole life but have only been doing the course for 6 or so months, so i'm hopefully going to continue to improve. Currently my Zion feels sluggish and i have to really work to get it turn how i want it, hence the reason for a ski upgrade. I free ski every weekend and get to a Slalom course 2-3 times a month. My goal this year is to get up to 52kph (32mph) passes

 

My first dilemma is what size ski do i choose? 67' or 69'?

Most ski guides/charts put me just in the 69' ski as i'm just over 200lbs. However i've read on some BOS forums that at higher speeds a smaller ski is more suited. So, i don't want to buy a 69' ski then outgrow it, and inversely i dont want to buy a 67' and it be too small that i sink while i turn (especially at my current slower speeds).

 

My second dilemma is which Ski do i get, an Omni carbon or Senate Alloy?

I've heard great things about both so i'm not sure about how they compare to each other.

 

I appreciate any feedback,

Thanks in advance.

Kent (Aus)

 

[Ski_Dad]

they are both great skis - i have 3 friends on the Senate and our family uses the HO CX and TX skis (which are precursors to the Omni)

 

my suggestion is to go with a used ski b/c you will probably want to upgrade in a few years anyhow.

 

I'll let the other guys tell you what size, my gut is 69" but I've been wrong on that before.

[76SS]

I can't give any insight to which ski but, at your weight and speed I'd go with the 69.

[Jetsetr]

My Alloy Senate is a great ski, with your weight 69 for sure...

[HighAltitude]

I feel like my Omni is more stable than my Senate when it comes to crossing the wake but both turn equally well. I added a Denali fin and the Omni is simply amazing with it. The turns feel very symmetrical. You are probably a better athlete than me but I feel like you need confidence in your crossing to set up a good turn (especially at your speed and line length). I don't think you can go wrong either way but my recommendation would be an Omni if you can't try each one on the water. The biggest problem I see with equipment recommendations is what is perfect for one person is simply not the right fit for another person. I see this all the time in the many sports that I play. Nothing can replace actually skiing on the ski for a few sets.

[Garn]

First of all, at your weight and boat speed - 28 mph - definitely go with a 69". If you go shorter you will have a ton of drag. You won't be able to get much width. Everything is just going to be work for you if you get a 67". As for an Omni vs a Senate, I cannot speak from personal experience about the Senate - I'm sure its a good ski. But I ski on an Omni and I think it is a true gamechanger. I actually went from the Syndicate Pro to the Sydicate Omni. I think it is the best ski I have ever skied on. First of all, it truly is easier to get up on. Due to its design (clean edge technology and speed skin - both unique to HO) it is effortless to ski on. Where before I was beat after 6 passes, with this ski I'm ready to do double that. Its fast and turns with very little effort. Because of how little drag the ski has it is effortless to gain width at the buoy. I really can't say enough about this ski.

[BraceMaker]

Used skis might be hard with him in Aus - for instance good luck finding a used Fluid Zion in the US.

 

For the most part with skis buy what you need now not what you hope to grow into. So for instance you miiight be able to go down to a 67" ski at speed you also are stuck with a ski that won't let you ski slower.

 

 

[aupatking]

The sizing is tough. You’ve got some things to consider.

At your height a 69 is a lot of ski. Most of the charts go by weight but remember the handle is a fulcrum that all of your body and eventually the ski needs to pivot around to get the ski back under the line. The taller you are, the more “lever” you have to bring the ski around. The shorter the ski, the less you need to bring around.

I don’t have much info or experience with the Omni, but the Senate is, in essence, a wider platform Vapor, which turns exceptionally well. The 69 will turn for you and will be fast, but may be more ski than you need at 52kph. At that speed I’d say the 67. At your current speed, the 69 may be what you need. Either length, the new 2019 Senate is an awesome ski and if you are looking at a 2018 they are every bit as good.

Just for reference, the Carbon Omni and the Graphite Senate are probably the more “apples-to-apples” comparison as they are both Carbon wrapped Polyurethane cores.

[skidawg]

67” senate pro worth the extra cheddar

[Hallpass]

I'm no expert, but if that's your bodybuilding photo, then I think your overall strength and conditioning probably need to be factored in. I understand that weight is weight, and heavier weight will bog down at slow speeds. But, with your height and weight measurements, that is often someone, like me, with a spare tire around the middle. Different game than someone young and no doubt very strong. Maybe I'm wrong, but thought I would throw it out for those more in the know than I am.

 

[Garn]

Holy shit! I didn't look at the picture. Is that you?!?

[Joelh]

Maybe try a connelly carbon v in a 68 they are put in the same category as the senat and omi

[gsm_peter]

@skidagw

Why is the Pro so much better compared to a regular Senate (carbon)?

Does one really benefit already at 52kmh?

[Kentjacobsen92]

Thanks everyone for your input! Extremely insightful, and i'll be looking at a 69' for the time being, and i have a lot to think about regarding which ski to get.

 

A couple of people have mentioned the Senate Graphite, is that basically like the HO Omni Syndicate? the Senate Alloy and Omni Carbon seem similar, so i'm guessing the Omni Syndicate and Senate Graphite are similar also?

In regards to this, i've heard that the Omni Syndicate doesn't handle rougher water as well as the Carbon. and since the river i ski in can get a bit choppy i was leaning more towards the Carboon/Alloy.

 

Thoughts?

 

And yes @Garn that is me haha, the tan was not fun to scrub off haha.

[DangerBoy]

@Kentjacobsen92 The Senate Graphite is similar to the Omni Carbon in terms of construction at least. Both are a carbon fibre layup over a PU core. The Senate Lithium is similar to the Syndicate Omni in that they are carbon fibre layups over a much lighter and more responsive PVC core. The Senate Pro has an even lighter and more responsive PMI core. HO doesn't offer an equivalent to that.

 

AFIK, the Senate Alloy is now a full carbon layup (it used to be a blend with fibreglass) over a PU core but I think there may also be some wood stringers in the core that the Senate Graphite doesn't have? Otherwise, I don't think it's a whole lot different than the Graphite except the Alloy doesn't come with a fully adjustable fin whereas the Graphite does and the Alloy may be a bit softer flex but don't take that as gospel. Maybe someone could chime in on that.

 

If you're looking at the Omni Carbon or it's closest Senate rival then I would suggest you look at the Graphite rather than the Alloy as that would compare most closely to the Omni Carbon in terms of build and features. If you're thinking of maybe throwing more dinero out there then maybe consider either the Senate Lithium or the Syndicate Omni as they are similar builds.

[Windsurfnut]

I can't comment on the Omni, but I've owned the Senate Alloy, Graphite and Lithium. Sold the Alloy and kept the other 2. If you ski more then 50% open water/public course then Graphite. If its mostly closed course or calm public course, Lithium.

Graphite is my favorite all around Senate, but when the conditions are good, the Lithium is a weapon.

 

[boatboyoz]

I am 90 kgs / 200 lbs. I used a 69" HO CX (non carbon) to progress through 49, 52 and into 55 kph. I felt that it was too big at the higher speed and upgraded to a 68" ski which I am very pleased with. I probably could have used a slightly wider 67" ski to progress through the slower speeds, however being older I wanted a little less load at the slower speeds. In summary I could have used either size ski.

[Boatman]

I had the exact same delema last Summer. I demo'd both skis. I really liked them both but bought the 69" Senate Alloy over the 69" Carbon Omni because I trusted it more. More predictable I guess. I am 5'11" @ 210# and ski 15 off at 28-29 mph. My goal for this year is to get to 32mph. I'm also 66 years old. While at the boat show, I asked Brooks Wilson for a recommendation based on these statistics and he suggested the 69"Alloy over the other Senates. A softer flex would be easier to improve with more forgiveness. Good Luck! you won't be disappointed with either ski.

[Frank_MA]

Last year I demo’ d a Senate Alloy and Senate Graphite. I have the same weight as you, 95 kg. I really liked them both but bought the 69" Syndicate Omni over the 69" Senate because it was more effortless and a little bit more stable. With your weight up to a 32 mph speed you need defently the 69" .If you start skiing with 34mph you can switch to 67” but the 69” also works well up to 22 off" for me. Today i would by the Carbon Omni because i think it works as good as the Syndicate at this level of sking.

[Lobonator]

I only have experience on the Senate. But I've heard great things about the Omni series from a bunch of people.

 

Jmac and Brooks got me set up on a radar vapor last year, and I'm sold on radars same shape between models platform.

 

Especially when youre just getting into the course (like myself) the difference between layup and core, is not going to make a massive difference how the ski feels and performs. BUT, the shape absolutely will. With radar, all skis share the sames shape as the top of the line vapor, but get incrementally wider to suit different conditions/speeds.

 

The Senate will rip turns like a vapor, but will give you more support for learning and when going slower. Get a Senate!