Denali C75 Review

[Deanoski]

@jipster43 Cant wait to see how you ride that ski

 

I will be in Bozeman oct 2

 

 

[jipster43]

@Deanoski Awesome! Steve pulled me through my 28’ off pass at the Winlock tournament and we chatted about skiing at the swamp. One of these days! Can’t wait to show you our setup. Hopefully the Denali will be getting me further down the line by that time - that is - hopefully my hips will be better connected to the handle!

[rico]

 

[S1Pitts]

@rico

What size?

[rico]

Big boy size L. First ride in 3 days

[smilinjim]

Just an FYI. If your at a total loss as to where to start your setup, measure your current fin length and depth. Set the new fin to that L&D with a DFT of 1.0 swing 7.

 

We have had good results with this method 2 out of 2 skiers so far. both med and small sizes.

(This of course assumes that your current ski is set up well)

[thager]

I find the concept of widening a ski for different sizing brilliant! Insert a plug into center of mold where least shaping required and mold away? Everybody gets the same bevels as the original.

[AdamCord]

@thager we talked about trying to do that but it would have been really tough to pull off well. We make our own molds and our process is fairly inexpensive compared to other companies so we decided to just make a mold for each size. But that's basically what it is, each size is identical except for some material added in the very center of the ski. The settings, including boot position, carry over perfectly from size to size so that shows that the concept works.

 

I normally ride a medium at 34, but I can jump on the small with the same settings and it just feels a bit more planted and is more work. I can do the same with the large and it feels more free and rides higher. Pretty cool.

[DangerBoy]

It'll be interesting to see if any of the other ski manufacturers adopt the Denali sizing model for any of their next models. I'm also interested to see if at any point, any of the bigger companies ever offer to buy Denali out in order to get their talent, designs and/or patents. Of course, such offers would likely be kept confidential so if something like that did happen the only way we'd ever hear about it is either through rumors or an official announcement if the offer is accepted by Denali.

[Skierx]

@DangerBoy that's a dangerous statement about a buyout and grabbing the talent. As much as I'd like to see the Adam's prosper, that would inevitably bring up halt to the creative juices that Flows out of those two. they may get away with their creativity at a big company for a while but eventually the big companies gets its own ideas. Probably why Andy left O'Brien skis. Just a guess. Denali has so changed the water skiing world in their step away from a conventional ski. This ski is so far away from that in every way imaginable all I can do is thank them for their efforts. And I'm glad I get to ski on one.

[Horton]

@DangerBoy @Skierx

 

 

[ballsohard]

The rolling panda!!! ? @Horton

[B_S]

@Horton I think the legalization of marijuana has a lot to do with some of these posts.

[jipster43]

I set my ski up and got out on it yesterday. I’m a donkey when it comes to fin tuning, but I followed the Denali recommendations for my speed and rope length and got close. My dft wound up 2/1000” longer than advised. The only other hiccup I encountered was my carbon sequence plate didn’t work with the rear holes. I’m not sure why, but whatever. I just moved my Radars over to dual plates and called it good enough for the likes of me.

 

My first pass started with an unnerving twitch and search as I was spinning into the course. I pulled out for the gates and the ski seemed to want to remain on the cutting edge. I glided just like Adam Caldwell and turned into the gates. Upon crossing the wake I began second guessing my fin set up, went flat and that bugger started bucking, darting, shutting down, and searching all at once! I made three buoys at my opener (ahem... 15@32mph) and then stood up freaking and waited for the pass to end. More than a little puckered.

As I sank into the water I was wishing I had brought my Evo with me. I wasn’t too keen on getting back on this monster and risk injury, but Justin said his C65 did that too and it likes to be on edge at all times. So I risked it and took another pass. This time I went from edge to edge like my life depended on it because it kinda’ did. And whamm-o! Instant gratification. I kept it there for the rest of the set, it was all I could do not to chop on my last pass.

The next set I was cold and hungry but stoked like only surviving a near death experience can stoke you. I pulled out for the gates. This time the ski rose up much better and I ran the opener easy breazy. Ran up the rope to 28 and had a great start but came off the handle at 4 (off side), nicked the buoy and skied inside 5. About 4 buoys shy of my pb - on a ski I was still very unsure of and intimidated by.

Going flat after the wakes is one my m.o.’s, so this ski is sure to cure me of that like an East German gymnastics coach. In the end I had never had so much fun skiing in my life. Hopefully it will all sort itself out into better form and eventually more passes.

Thanks Adams’!

[jipster43]

On another note I’ve been looking forward to this ski not only for the skiing experience but also for access to the Denali technical forum but have been unable to join it as of yet @AdamCord @adamhcaldwell

[AdamCord]

@jipster43 sorry about that the forum is a bit difficult to administer. If @Horton would give us a private section of this forum that would be much easier ;)

[DangerBoy]

@B_S , @Horton I do not see what is so ridiculous/crazy about wondering if perhaps other ski companies may look at and adopt the Denali C-75 one length/multiple width ski design philosophy for at least some new models of their skis. It's a very interesting departure from the status quo and no doubt has some tangible advantages over the conventional one width/several lengths philosphy that has pervaded the industry's way of thinking for pretty much ever. You can panda me all you want but I believe other companies are going to at least look at doing that with some future ski models and I think it's interesting to wonder if any of them will actually adopt that concept on at least some future ski models/lines. If you think it's crazy to wonder that then please tell me why.

 

I also don't think it's crazy to wonder if perhaps someday one or more of the bigger ski companies may want to own or licence some of the innovations the Denali boys (or SkiJay for that matter) have brought to market and patented (e.g. various aspects of their fin designs), IF those innovations prove to be very successful and IF they point the way to where future innovation and performance gains can come from. There's really so little difference between the skis each of the companies put out from company to company and year to year, they all must be hungry to find any idea/innovation that can give them a substantial leg up on their competitors. Well, now Denali and SkiJay have really shaken things up or at least raised some eyebrows with some radical new ideas and designs. It remains to be seen how much of a game changer any of those innovations will turn out to be but what I see is those innovations potentially providing fertile ground for future exploration in fin and ski design and development. Does anyone want to take the opposite point of view on that and argue it?

 

I then respectfully ask, if it is possible that Denali and/or Skijay have patented something that may have an important role in some aspect of future ski/fin design innovation (I'm assuming they've applied for some patents here - please correct me if I'm wrong), then is it crazy to wonder if instead of paying to licence something Denali (or SkiJay for that matter) has patented, the interested ski company may instead choose to try and buy Denali or WhisperFin outright and get everything? I know waterski companies don't have a lot of money but stuff like that happens all the time in many other industries. Small start-ups with good ideas get bought out by bigger more established companies every day.

 

All I said is it will be interesting so see if any of these things will happen. I didn't make any sort of judgement on how likely any of them are to happen. I just wondered out loud if any of those things might happen and said it's an interesting thing to ponder. Is it ridiculous to think like that?

[Ed_Johnson]

FIRST IMPRESSION....When you physically see this ski for the first time, you instantly know it is different than all others. I was blown away by the depth of the tunnel. You have to actually see it to believe it. I only have 3 sets, but have to agree with Horton as to how do you describe that. It normally takes me about 10 sets to get a ski exactly where i want it and then I rarely ever touch it again. One thing for sure, I can actually feel specifically each change I have made and understand why.

 

My first set was between two thunderstorms with 15 knot x-winds, and it went through rollers like a knife. Very impressive.

 

Next 2 sets was experimenting between the flat wing and S-Wing, and the associated drag effects. Also finding the exact balance point with binding setup. Like I said, you can actually feel each change you make like no other ski I have been on before. Instant feed back. This is a really positive attribute. Can't wait to get it totally dialed in.

 

I feel the best part is that once it is dialed in, you will have total consistency.

 

It is also impressive that two Guy's in there shop can build a better ski than all these large company's. Thank you to the Adam's !!!!

 

PS: It was only one hour after Fed-Ex delivered the ski that Adam Cord called me to talk about setup. When was the last time you bought a ski and the designer personally called you ??

VERY IMPRESSIVE !!!

 

 

 

[Horton]

@DangerBoy it's just not the way the water ski industry works. I know all the players personally and the scenarios you've laid out seem very far-fetched. If we were in a much bigger sport like tennis or mountain biking I think your proposals would be much more plausible.

[Than_Bogan]

2nd set on a c75, ran -35 for the first time this season.

 

In a "normal" season I'd run -35 in almost every set by mid-season, so I'm not sure how much can be read into this, but nevertheless relative to my injured body this ski seems to have almost instantly made me better. In fact, the site where I happened to be skiing yesterday is one where I've really struggled to run -35 in the last few years, even when healthy.

 

I'm also doing a semi-lab-rat move and testing the Small at 6'2" 170. So far it doesn't feel "small" in any way. Very comfortable support and easy to make speed.

[Chef23]

@Than_Bogan I was hoping you were testing a large.

[rico]

I received my Large C-75 and rode it for the first time yesterday when I wasn't feeling that good (too much Memorial Day drinks the night before but manage to get 3 rides to discover the ski.

 

I usually open at 28 and run 3 buoys at 38 on average.

 

I ran 28, 32, 32, 35 and the ride feeling was definitely different. The ski is slower that the Radar Vapor I have been riding but does not feel slow. It took me a while to get my center of mass forward on the ski and trust that it will carry my 210 lbs. Once you do, the ski is amazing.

Second set, I got used to the ski and ran 3@38. One huge difference to other skis is that it will turn no matter what.

 

Third set I adjusted the fin based on Adam's feedback and turned 4 ball at 38.

 

I am still figuring out the ski and need to work on gate pull out and turn in but I am very excited to ski the C-75 again this week... I will post my progression on the ski.

[BlueSki]

I am over 25 sets in and was probably slow to make adjustments because I was still posting good scores. With Adam’s help, I feel great with the settings and the ski. I could talk about how it creates space, transitions easily, and makes for a great ski ride; but the college team was practicing at the lake today and one of the women on the team said, “You are sick! It was so fun to watch you ski.” So the real review is that if you get a C75, you might be cool again to college women, even for just a moment.

[Not_The_Pug]

Man @Rico still hungover from Memorial Day? :) Must have been a hell of a party!

[Rednucleus]

@BlueSki careful what you say - with reviews like that the price of the ski is going to go way up!

[jipster43]

I have mostly skied conservative sets - not tournament sets, but on my eighth set I tied my PB. I haven’t felt any weirdness since my first pass.

[Bdecker]

Had the opportunity to watch @Than_Bogan on the ski this weekend for his second set on the c75. Ski comes around beautifully and he ran a low drama, low effort -35. I was shocked when he told me that was the first one of the season. Hoping I can get him to come up to the pond soon so I can try it!

[rfa]

@Chef23, sorry @Than_Bogan's C75 is not a large. Therefore, it really should be tested by a 145lb skier...If you agree, I know a little guy...

[9400]

Y'all should just order a large and a small. I have not seen a person yet that decided they didn't want to stay on it once they took a ride.

[PatM]

I may have to take a trip to Denali's Northeast headquarters (Pagan Cove) to demo the ski.

[Chef23]

@9400 unfortunately I am not in the skiing condition to evaluate anything right now. Since I ski with Than it was more of a dig at him. @rfa on the other hand should definitely do it.

[Than_Bogan]

WTH. This thing has got faerie dust or something. 3rd set on it I'm rounding the 3 ball at -38, which I would have said I had NO chance to do with my semi-functional back and corresponding lack of offside pull. For those counting, that is essentially 4 buoys better than I was a week ago. (And the c65 I came off was a great ski -- when healthy I went deep -38 on it regularly.)

 

My current settings are (to 0.005" resolution):

28 15/16 (a bit ahead of some due my awkward stance)

1.030"

6.805"

2.520"

7 S-wing

[Zman]

@DangerBoy. Whhaaaat? B)

[Milford]

Picked up a Large C-75 2 weeks ago and have approximately 10 sets on it. Really wanted to explore this ski, so started with bindings at 28.75 and moved them all the way up to 29.25 and back to 28.5 in 1/8 increments. Have settled in at 28 5/8. Next started playing with fin. Started at 6.90 2.49 1.04 7. Tail needed more holding power and I was looking for more acceleration into first wake, so moved to Horton's numbers of 6.804 2.528 1.05 8. These numbers are great until -39. Wanting to be able to move onto the front of the ski on offside turn and tail is a bit too loose, so moved to 6.795 2.550 1.01 8 bindings still at 28 5/8 and this seems to be where I need to be. Riding Goode double hardshell's. Matched my season PB first set on the ski and have been having some really good looks at -39 since getting on it. Now that I am settled in with numbers that seem to fit my style, can't wait to spend some more time seeing how far I can push it. Denali has a private user forum that you have access to when you buy a ski, which helps because valuable information is being shared by everyone on the ski. Haven't tried the long shallow settings yet, but will probably stick with the short deep since that is typically what I have been skiing with over the last 10 years.

[VONMAN]

Well I drank the cool-aid and did it. Third day out on my new Denali C-75, large ski.

I'm 69 years old, 195LBS, right foot forward. Free ski at 34mph, course at 32mph. on a good day run into 35off and on a great day 1 or 2 at 38off. Had a C-65 and tested the CG fin in the winter of 2017. (retired living in Florida). Loved that ski but was totally blown away by the C-75.

I've always been on a 67" ski, so a 65" had me worried. Easiest ski I've owned for deep water start. Offside turns are automatic! The way the tail slides and sets you up for your pull cross course, magic! Best offside ever! Great speed and angle. All you have to do is work behind the boat and come off the load, not the handle and you are wide. The tip never comes up the ski justs turns and goes without slowing down.

I've tried some short and deep fin settings but couldn't get my onside turn to feel good. So I ended with long and shallow. Depth and length are what I was using for my D-3 EVO.

Length (tips) Depth Tail (head) Wing (large normal) Front boot

6.900 2.424 1.10 7 29.25

So far this setup suits my style. Did three long sets free skiing at 34mph and never fell, blew out the tail, got out of shape. Ski felt great under my feet. Couple of more times out to tweak the fin and I should be ready for the course. Science, who knew how much fun it could be!

 

 

[rico]

Okay so I guess I was so excited to ski on my Denali that I completely screwed up the boot placement. I was at a pretty much 28 1/4 instead of 28.5. I move them today to 28 and 5/8 and the ski came to life and is amazing. I ran the best 32 off ever, tip down, ski is predictable and creates space.

2 rides today with 5@38 ride one and 5, 4,5, 3,5 and 5 @38 ride two. I think I was so excited I kept screwing up but I feel 38 will come.

[Horton]

To be clear - @rico's ski was at 28 5/16". I had to explain what 5/16" was.

 

I told @AdamCord the ski needs to come with metric and imperial settings for the French people.

 

Pretty sure NASA lost a mars mission the same way.

[VONMAN]

Boot placement is critical with Denali skis and what I've found that your movement is forward from stock settings. When I ordered my C-75 large ski, I had to tell them what boots I was using. I thought that was cool so the inserts would allow me to find the perfect placement for my D-3 leverage front boot.

The stock starting point was 28.5", but because of the placement of the inserts my boot would not mount to that number. The best I could start with was 29" with plenty of room to go forward. At this point the front boot is at 29.25" and the ski is rocking. May try 29.5" next time I go out, just to see. The point I'm trying to make is you can make big moves with boot placement with a CG fin. My boots on my C-65 were 1" forward of stock with a CG fin. For me, going forward made all the difference in bringing my onside back to match that great offside turn.

[Horton]

@VONMAN are you running the long shallow fin settings?

[VONMAN]

@Horton Yes I am.

[jimski]

If you guys with the c75were a to measure progression by balls

How much better are you skiing compared to you previous ski ?

 

[Horton]

@VONMAN

I think this should be addressed by Adam but I suspect that the long shallow settings go with bindings further forward that the the short deep. I am still at 28.5 with short deep.

[Ed_Johnson]

@Horton ... I only have a few sets on my Large C75, but what I found was Long/Shallow worked great thru 32 off, however, for the short line lengths, short/deep works better, especially if you need to scrap. My Reflex is 29.25 and feels great there.

 

[skispray]

@AdamCord @adamhcaldwell I’ve read the C-75 was designed for 34 mph. Do you intend to design a ski optimized for 36 mph? Or have you concluded that the C-75 works as well at that speed as 34? I know there’s been some good skiing on it at 36.

[AdamCord]

@skispray there’s not really a market for 36mph skis unfortunately. That being said, I’m skiing the best of my life on the c75 at 36, I just have to drop down to the smaller size. We’re thinking about making an XS for 36 since I’m 180 riding the small at that speed. Anyone much smaller may find the small to be too big. Off season project.

[BraceMaker]

@AdamCord that's an interesting statement. All along I sort of assumed the 36 mph segment was the target but is it just too many options for 36 mph skis already between the major players? Or is it disposable income in skiers aged M3 and up?

[BlueSki]

@jimski, to answer your question about buoy count, I am a 22-35 skier and was running most, but not all, 32s before the Denali and typically getting 2 or 3 at 35. But, I ran 35 on my old ski the day before my Denali arrived - nothing will make you question a new ski purchase like getting to 38 for the first time on your old one. Now that I have the fin dialed in with Adam's help, which ended up being within 0.01" depth and length of my old ski, I am running 32s with more space, getting to 4 @ 35 consistently, and have run 35 again. So the improvement has been consistency of a higher buoy count, which has improved. Unfortunately, although it was a ton of fun to ski all those times, I have not taken it to a tournament so none of it counts. Nevertheless, I'll say the same thing about the ski that I said about the Denali fin I put on my old ski, you can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

[jimski]

@BlueSki that’s fantastic

I’m hearing similar results from some one up here that bought the ski

[MattP]

@AdamCord at 160 skiing at 36 I would be interested in the XS!

[VONMAN]

@Ed-Johnson so what numbers did you settle on for short and deep fin settings? Front boot and wing angle.