Need advice on bindings

[Corne]

Hey Ballers

 

So I'm in the process of upgrading my old ski to a new D3 NRG and was wondering about bindings. I've been in double Connelly Stokers for a long time, had some hard crashes over the years and never pick up an injury from these boots. I'm scared to move away from the familiar but obviously will do so if there is merit.

I have 2 options:

1) get the same type/shape boot

2) take a risk, get something else and maybe never look back

 

Option 1: Was looking at HO Animal bindings (same shape) but here are my concerns:

- I didn't see any good reviews about the new HO animals so not sure about them?

- Size wise my old Stokers were too small. I have a size 10.5 to 11 foot and although the Stokers were LR (10-11) it killed my feet for at least a year before it started to settle. Taking this into consideration should I go for the HO (11-12) ? I have contacted HO a couple of times about this earlier in the year but sadly they never responded :/

- Wiley's or D3 Leverage as alternatives?

 

Option 2: Move away from rubber to something else...Not sure what though?

- I'm not a fan of hard shell and I wont go there specially from rubber

- Don't know what would fit on the NRG

 

If you still ski in rubber or have moved over I would love to hear your thoughts

 

Things to note:

I live in South Africa so this will be a once off purchase (no testing/refunds etc)

 

Thanks all

[OldboyII]

The biggest advantage of rubber - it never gets stinky ))

[Orlando76]

I’m not surprised about HO. The only time I can get a response from is if I complain about them on this website. Sadly I’ve tried contacting them too much. I too was a rubber guy. Had many great successful years of releasing from old school Animals and Wiley’s. Then one day my Wiley didn’t release, maybe too much salty food the night before. Destroyed my leg. I reluctantly switched to Hardshell with a release when I went back to skiing and it is no doubt the best decision I’ve ever made in my gear. I told the guys yesterday morning I wished I switched years ago. The performance from a Hardshell is incredible, convenient, comfortable, exact setting every time. But I too talked your tune. Whatever you do, don’t switch skis and bindings at same time.

[jeromezz430]

2 weeks ago,i change from a 2002 Connelly F1 with storker + RTP to a 2018 Vapor Ho annimal + RTP.

 

 

2002 Storker L and i switch to 2018 HO animal L 10/11

 

 

HO annimal is very confortable just a little tight at the front of my ankle but just need to break'in.

 

hope this help

 

[PacMan]

I'm on animals and in the same predicament you are. Thinking of switching but unsure what to get. I'm currently leaning towards a fluid motion setup. (Hardshells) fortunately I have a friend with syndicate hardshell front binding I'm gonna try first to get an idea what hardshells feel like.

 

I had one problem with my animals three years ago, I didn't release properly from the front and sprained my ankle badly. However the new animals don't have laces like mine (I keep my rear boot as loose as it can be) so not sure how comfortable or how well they release.

 

Have you looked at the T factors from D3? They sound to be the best evolution a rubber boot can be.

[Justin_C]

I went from rubber to the radar strada boot (now the vapor). I love those boots. May give you a bit of a happy medium between rubber and full on hardshell. They have a removable, moldable liner and seem to release very well as long as you use them properly and don't over tighten the top laces.

[bananaron]

I have skied on wileys high wraps for years.However, I switched my front binding to a radar vector and really enjoy the switch.I still have the wileys for my rear binding and enjoy both bindings.It took a short time to get used to the change however things are fine now.

[Zman]

I went from the Animals to Radar Strada 6 years ago. And, now on the newer version, the Vapor Carbitex boots.

A very easy transition from rubber boots. You will likely ski better and your feet will be very comfortable. I think they are safer too. Just be sure to follow instructions for lace tension.

[Corne]

@jeromezz430

Does that HO animal have laces or not? I think I will only be able to get the HO 2019 models and they don't have laces so its a different boot then but not sure

 

@PacMan

Yeah I've read that the new HO animals without the laces aren't as popular because you can't adjust the tension like the ones you had so you need to get it right size off the bat I suppose

 

@Zman @bananaron @Justin_C

Was thinking something like Radar boots with laces

 

Thanks for the replies so far

Keep them coming

This is very insightful thank you

[MDB1056]

Seriously consider D3 tfactors. LOVE them far more than Animals - dual front laces are easy in and out, they give amazing support, and release well on a fall. I was on HO's forever but am not going back

[JackQ]

I 2nd the T factor recommendation, I could not give a stronger endorsement. I used HO animals for 10+ years, then 5-6 years ago they had them built in China and they did not fit or were as robust as previous version. So I tried the T factors, much more comfortable and my feet no longer cramp after 7-9 passes. The provide more lateral support but release well forward and backward.

 

I am in the minority, but hard shell binders did not improve (or hurt) my performance one bit, and I never felt safe, and did not like having one more thing to fiddle with.

[Chef23]

The move from Wileys to the Radar Strada was pretty easy. The newer Vapor Carbitex bindings are much stiffer so the transition might be a bit more difficult.

 

The two best skiers on our lake ski on T Factors and swear by them.

 

I am all for getting a new ski and new bindings but when you get everything resist the urge to throw the new bindings on the new ski and go skiing. Put your old bindings on the new ski and get the ski dialed in then change bindings. Changing bindings is frequently much more difficult than changing skis. When I upgraded from my old Strada to a newer Vapor Carbitex binding it took me at least 5-6 sets before I could ski back to my average. The first set I could barely get the ski to turn on one side (I forget if it was on or off side).

 

 

[kc]

My son and I both skied the old HO white animals for years. He switch several years ago to T-factors, and I went to Vapor boots. We’re both happy with our current set ups.

[Kwoody51]

I was on double stokers for a number of years. Tried Wiley’s wraps as they looked like the stokers but didn’t like the closed toe, too tight. I’m now on a T factor in the front and a HRT in the back.

 

Love the T factor for all the reasons others mentioned. Similar to the stokers but better lateral control. Knock on wood they have held tight when needed and let go when needed.

 

HRT in the back took some adjustment but it helped me kick the bad habit of stomping down with my back leg in the turns thus using my front leg as you are supposed to do.

 

Get some T factors - should be an easy transition!!

[Corne]

Seems the T factors are quite popular...

Anyone on the D3 Leverage bindings?

or the

Radar Vector BOA Bindings?

[jeromezz430]

@Corne my HO animal don't have laces.

no risk to break laces and no problem to over tighten and get injured .....

 

but for sure it give an old style to this new binding ....

[Chef23]

@Corne we ski with a guy on the Vectors and he likes them but not the BOA. I haven't been in them though.

[OldboyII]

@Kwoody51 Do tfactors release only through elastic laces like let say Radar or material of the boot may help to release if laces are too tight?

[skialex]

The new Leverage and Animal both come with a soft rubber non laced overlay. Both boots feel different than the previous models.

I would consider the T-Factor, I have friends that tried the new models when they couldn’t find any laced overlays as spare parts and finally moved to T-factor or other options.

[MDB1056]

I've taken some world class falls and my tfactors have released just fine. I don't use the laces much at least for tightening as the medium bindings fit quite snug without any tightening. I do use a lot of slime to get my feet in though but once in they are comfortable, and again do release just fine for me. Not one of those things you want to test, but we all do fall. Double tfactors feels very well connected . Can't go wrong with them IMHO

[PacMan]

I've heard that there are or used to be an issue with part of the vectors wearing in a spot that you couldn't replace as a separate part so people ended up needing to replace the binding. Not sure if that is still the case but deffinately worth looking into if your considering them.

[Kwoody51]

@OldboyII top laces are completely loose, so much so I might as well take them out. If laces are too tight, on the top I could issues with releasing as there is no give on the side. The tongue and heal are rubber so some give but nothing like a double high wrap, all rubber binding like stokers or Wiley’s.

 

Bottom laces aren’t that tight but tight enough to hold the clip in place. I have a 11.5 size foot and am running the large. I have to use slime to get foot in. The rubber is tight but not so tight foot cramps.

 

With significant use the inner rubber can start to peel/ chip off the tongue and back of the binding which would probably be costly to replace. While it’s doesn’t look new it doesn’t affect performance. See pics.

 

[MDB1056]

@Kwoody51 - what binding is that?

[Kwoody51]

@MDB1056 this is an older rear T factor.

[Corne]

Wow this thread is booming along nicely

 

So far I'm leaning towards the t-factors ...seems proven but still open minded towards the leverage bindings

 

@MDB1056 "world class falls" good to know your ankles and knees survived

 

The reason I've always loved rubber apart from the fact that I grew up with them (age given away lol) is that I also had some world class falls and always walked away from them so I'm probably rubber biased. I also need slime to get my feet in but it pops out easily when I take them off or take a dive.

 

2 things to note is that rubber boots generally don't come up so high on the ankle (rigid wise it loses strength) than the more modern bindings and is a softer more flexible material. Hence my small mind would think it comes of easier in any direction but has a bit less feet stability as a con vs more modern bindings

 

@Kwoody51 What's your experience? Is the top of the t-factors still flexible? I've never seen them but it looks like its part rubber part material and fiber/plastic at the back? I can't really tell from pictures on the D3 website

 

What about the D3 Leverage bindings guys? Don't forget these

[ozski]

T-Factor = awesome

[skibrain]

@Corne I had EP plate bindings in the 80s, owned a couple sets of Wiley’s with some rebuilds in there for about 14 yrs, then demoed D3 Leverage bindings a few times which I found hard to get on. Med is my size but about broke my ankle trying to get them on/off. Large too loose. (This is the old ones, not the Leverage Blackout. I don’t think I’ve heard any feedback on the Blackouts). I bought t-factors and have used them four seasons.

 

Front laces make them easier to get on than rear-lace Leverage (and I always use soap too). T’s are stiffer laterally and pretty flexy fore and aft - I think that is what makes them great. My learning curve was pretty quick transitioning from Wiley’s. I think the lateral stiffness provides more edge control than all-rubber. Helps the ski feel a little more stable and on rails than softer rubber bindings.

 

I have flat feet, size 10 and bought size L t-factors instead of expected Med. I snug the front lace pretty tight to hold my foot tight against ski, and never adjust/loosen that. I own extra plastic slide clips and extra lace/bungee. Never had to replace laces. I rebuilt front binding with a new heel piece after three years. I Replaced a sliding lace clip when a friend trying my ski pulled it right off and lost it in the lake. But I had a spare. ?

[Highland_MI_Skier]

When I got my NRG installed Leverages from another ski. A year later changed to T-Factors. A big improvement over the Leverage. Overall more supportive and comfortable. 9.5 foot - M binding.

[lakeside7455]

I have Radar Boa bindings with aluminum plates front and back and love them. I come right out of them on any super hard falls and the new Boa design added Carbitex to sides, so a bit more responsive and super comfortable. I feel very safe and still get performance, and the comfort is best out there.

[jhughes]

@Corne The old Leverage bindings were amazing bindings. IMO the ultimate evolution of a "classic" highwrap waterski binding.

 

Unfortunately they switched the overlays to the "blackout" overlay. This overlay comes up lower on the ankle and is made of EXTREMELY soft rubber. It feels almost like a soft latex, very floppy and stretchy.

 

I put the new overlay on my old Leverage and it's basically made my entire ski season a mess, that's how different it is from the previous overlay. Maybe the new entire Blackout binding has other additional design changes/stiffening to accommodate the different wrap material, I don't know. What I do know is old binding + new wrap is giving me trouble.

[Wayne]

I transitioned from Animals (the older lace up style) to Radar Vectors (on my 3rd set now). There was a little learning curve for tightening the laces but once I figured that out the switch was easy. Basically tighten the lower lace as much as you want, but only tighten the upper lace so it still has some stretch so you release.

 

If you do go with a Radar binding I highly recommend getting a Radar Sequence plate. It has more adjustment than the individual plates and just makes binding adjustments so much easier.

[MDB1056]

Tfactors....nuff said

[Corne]

@Highland_MI_Skier @jhughes @Wayne thx for the info guys !

 

@lakeside7455 thank you, that is very comforting to know because I'm looking at a D3 or Vapor and the Vapor comes with the Vector BOA bindings. I have a size 11US / 10UK foot. Seems I should go XL (10-14) as the standard is (7-11) if I go for the Vapor and not the D3 ski

 

@jhughes that doesn't sound good. Rubber should still be relative firm... I never understand tampering with something that is working. Would suck taking the blackouts and then I hate them. t-factors so far I guess

 

Nothing as bad as having a good ski and a bad binding :/

Thx to everyone so far

Please keep posting your experiences, nothing as informative as user reviews :D

[Cent]

T Factors are my favorite over HO, Radar,Goode