what is this score?

[Horton]

[Than_Bogan]

I can't seem to figure out where we are in the course, but anyhow zero additional points for that buoy.

[Horton]

fall is past 5 ball

[liquid d]

he gets the 1/2

[Zman]

4-1/2 and a new world record, for her.

[Than_Bogan]

Then 4. Curious what you guys saying 4.5 are seeing or if maybe I'm viewing something with artifacts. But in the frames I can see, the ball is entirely behind the ski in the first frame where the feet are even with the ball. Wouldn't consider it a close call from video. (Obviously in real life at full speed I'd score 4.5, but the video says otherwise.)

[Zman]

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Definite 1/4. Still going outbound when the handle was dropped.

 

@liquid d BS. :p

[RichardDoane]

@Bruce_Butterfield +1 on the 1/4. No definite turn back in to get a 1/2

[Than_Bogan]

The quarter zone begins downcourse of the ball -- not outbound and not until your feet get past the buoy outside of it. Still see a clear no points at this buoy. But happy to learn more since some very trustworthy folks are seeing something else. (Learning shall continue tomorrow. Sleep for now.)

[Horton]

Here it is zoomed in. From this video I do not think she got outside the ball line. I score 4.

 

YouTube will let you slow it down extra.

[Horton]

@Bruce_Butterfield Never before in the years I have run this site have I disagreed with you as much as I disagree with you on this. If she had gotten outside the ball she would have had the full 1/2 within a few feet after the ball. At 41 off it is impossible to have the handle and not come to the inside right after the ball.

 

@RichardDoane I disagree with you all the time so it is less surprising.

[Zman]

Here, it appears she still has the handle, and the ski has drifted back inside the buoy line. 4-1/2.

Rules, if I am correct, only require the front boot to break the plane back inside the buoy line. Ski doesn't have to aim inward.

Behind her, you can also see the ski wake just outside the buoy. I know the wake moves, but we are talking a small fraction of a second, and the ski path is almost straight down course, so her ski wake wouldn't be moving outbound much. JMHO

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@horton we have a new standard for disagreement!

 

So watching the slomo it looks like the ski is outside the buoy one frame before, but looks like inside the next frame. If I zoom in on that frame it sure looks like the ski is inside the buoy. I can see either a 0 or 1/4 call and won’t argue either as its judgement splitting hairs.

 

As a rule of thumb I agree its very rare to get outside the buoy at shortline and not get back past the “1/2” line. this video is a rare exemption and the skier is still going outbound, so if the ski made it outside the buoy its a legit 1/4

 

My first score watching real time was 1/4. After several reviews I think the ski was inside the buoy and score is 0.

 

Of course thats why there are multiple judges and only the internet judges get the benefit of slomo and repeated freeze frames.

[bishop8950]

Based on that view, watched once on the web in real time, boat score 4

[Zman]

@Bruce_Butterfield

Your knowledge and experience far exceeds mine, but I can't agree the ski is going outbound @41 off 15 feet past the buoy. With only 34 feet of rope, she has the handle down and very close to the ski, breaking forward, with little reach or body extension. And, a small amount of bend in the rope. So, it appears, at best the ski is 36 feet from the pylon. Make sense?

You can tell it's the off season, for most. We are debating this buoy for the second time since it happened last June at Lymanland.

I think the story ends the same.

[MISkier]

I'd score it a 4. It also looks like the buoy pops up with some significant force after she passes it. That would seem like it is not "grazing", but displacing that was caused by a large portion of the ski running it over.

[klindy]

I’d score that a 4.

[bkreis]

I also call 4

[disland]

First rule I was taught on day 1 as a judge, if you cant tell credit goes to the skier. No way you can tell if the buoy was displaced. nowhere in the rules does it say you cant hit the buoy. 4 1/2, I have said this for years, at 41 off it is virtually impossible to get a quarter buoy

[Jody_Seal]

0, she missed the gates!

 

No, if that was ball 5 then I would score 4 as she displaced the ball to the outside.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Zman when I watched this last night it was on my phone so that's my excuse for thinking it might be 1/4. On a larger screen its clear the ski is inside.

 

But for sake of argument, lets say the ski did get outside the buoy, it never turned back toward the boat. At best it continued straight downcourse. That's the reason for 1/4 vs 1/2. You can also look at the angle of the rope - its constant from the time she is at the buoy to when she let go - so the handle never started to move back toward the center. But that requires slo-mo and would be hard to gauge in real time.

[disland]

I was wrong, I also watched again on bigger screen and agree skier did not get outside the buoy,

[Horton]

The bombshell is as follows....

 

Below is the whole original unedited video. It is the same video as IWSF posted.

 

See the following link http://www.iwsf.com/dbheadlines/showarticle.php?id=1363

 

 

Either they published the wrong video with the record announcement or there is video from another angle that shows Regina getting the ski outside of 5 ball or some other explanation or the world record is not valid. I have no idea.

 

Clearly Regina is the best skier of our time ( Male or Female ) . I am NOT throwing rocks at her. I was shown this video this week and am not sure how no one noticed this months ago.

 

 

[Chef23]

I would have gone with 4 also. It doesn’t look to me like the ski is outside the ball.

[Kelvin]

She had 2 sets with scores of deep 41off that day. Perhaps they got the wrong video.

[Horton]

@Kelvin hopefully somebody is finding the correct footage as we speak

[RichardDoane]

judging it in slow-mo is such an internet troll thing to do. as a boat judge it happens so fast you better be paying close attention. watching it in real time, I'd give the benefit of doubt to the skier, 4Q.

[Horton]

@RichardDoane but this was certified as a world record (assuming this is the correct video)

[Chad_Scott]

That is the correct video. I am not a tech guy but I believe the original video sent to the iwsf was a high definition video which was converted to the you tube which was released. I also know that all of the senior judges at the site spent a lot of time reviewing the video to make the correct call. Then the video was sent to the committee which approves world records, which I believe consist of almost a dozen other judges (could be wrong on the number) and approved as called. I have seen the same committee use the high def video sent from Kelvin Kelm to deny a record in the past.

[Jody_Seal]

Sure glad there is a high definition version., so why was the question how to score from this video? I would think the Yahoo that posted it to you tube should have had the decency to post the high definition version.

Propaganda!!speculation! Politics!!!

Wait! Sorry!! I slipped!

[ScottScott]

The compression that You tube adds is enough to loose significant clarity on a video like this.

[Horton]

@ScottScott if you go to the link on the IWSF page you can direct download the same file that I started with. YouTube conversion is not the problem.

[bishop8950]

Thinking about this since, watching that live from the boat I think I may have called “4.5 but suggest video review” which sounds like what happened. Then the officials review and are looking to see if the video clearly confirms it was different. Some would argue that the video was not 100% conclusive so the call would stand.

 

Had the call on the water been 4, the review would have to clearly confirm it was more.

[TheJaredSmith]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5TE2eBhj0Y/?igshid=102apqgndaqst

[zippin_2]

4

[thager]

He’s baaaaaaacccccckkkkk!,,

[Kelvin]

Compare the current world record of 4.5 to the 3.5 denied world record in 2013. See the 2013 video here:

[Horton]

@Kelvin well the first thing I noticed is the quality of the video.

[MuskokaKy]

@thager i was thinkin' the same thing! haha...no comment on the actually vid

#ReginaRocks

[9400]

They don't get any harder to call than that 3.5 from 2013. My first gut reaction in slow motion was that is no piece of 4. After watching it several times, that's as 50/50 as it gets.

In my head, 50/50 goes to the skier.

[Horton]

@9400 50/50 goes to skier sure but what about as a certified world record?

[eleeski]

What is going on here? @Zman posted a frame shot of the ski clearly outside the buoy. She had the handle for several frames after that. In those frames, the spray was on the outside of the ski - meaning she had to be coming back in. That's a pretty easy call of 4 1/2.

 

Why are so many second guessing the verified score? Why is every good performance diminished by "controversy"? It's sad as this hostility towards skier performance is spilling over into judging for everyday tournaments. This sport is about fun. Getting your scores cut from what you actually performed is not fun.

 

Eric

[Stevie Boy]

@eleeski if she did make it to the outside of the bouy, she has not come back in to score the half in a skiing position, to me the ski more or less went in a straight line once passed the bouy, in my opinion it certainly didn't come back into the Half Zone,

Just my opinion

[9400]

@Horton good question but to me there's no difference. If this were someones first tournament -28, I probably don't put as much thought into it. I can't imagine seeing anything harder to call than that one @Kelvin just put up. The fact that it's a World Record call doesn't change how I look at it.

[Horton]

@eleeski Is the below image proof of Bigfoot?

[eleeski]

@Stevie Boy Why do you have an opinion that is hostile to the skier and contradicts the official results? Exactly my concern that this attitude is prevalent and bad for the sport.

 

Eric

[eleeski]

@Horton Bigfoot is actually walking away from the lake in disgust because judging that makes skiing fun is a myth.

 

Eric

[Horton]

@Stevie Boy are you aware of a theory known as the "Dunning-Kruger Effect"?

[thager]

@Horton Actually, that picture is of one of our former Minnesota skiers getting ready for his trick run. Jerry S.omething or other from Prior Lake I think.