Sponsorship deals

[disland]

Very interesting developments. Surfers grapple with how to get non-endemic sponsors. Waterski has been trying to do this for years. lets see how the surfers do.

 

https://stabmag.com/news/john-florence-no-longer-rides-for-hurley/

[unksskis]

This was all created, and then destroyed, by Nike (Hurley). There would not have been such a high bar, or as lucrative non-endemic sponsors without Nike jumping in and then running out, just as they did with snowboarding, signed the top names, and then left the hard goods side of the industry. They did it on a smaller scale to wakeskating, Nike SB was a brand direction they changed their mind on expanding past skateboarding.

[jimbrake]

The "new Hurley" - Bluestar Alliance. F them. Good on John John for walking away instead of dealing with their attorneys and other corporate kooks.

[Horton]

Non-endemic sponsors are almost impossible for water skiing. It's just so unlikely to show ROI.

[Eljaybee]

I think the ROI point Horton makes is a good one. It doesn’t appear that we have a mechanism to collect the data on consumers and associated demographic, psychographic, and associated buying data. Said simply we are not clear on who we are therefore it is difficult to go to potential sponsors with the “why” or how we could connect brands w buyers. Once we as a community are able to aggregate and get crystal clear on who the water ski enthusiast is and their associated buying habits one could go to market and secure sponsors with greater success. I for one would love to have the opportunity to engage in that dialogue w our sport’s leadership.

[Horton]

@Eljaybee I know who we are. We are men, affluent, 35 years old or older, and athletic. The problem is more the size of the audience than it is the composition of the audience. From a marketing perspective the demographic of the audience is gold but it just isn't huge. The readership of this website is surprisingly homogeneous.

[Anderson]

@Horton , any sense for the median age of BOS membership? I turn 50 this year and would guess that I am at, or just below, the median age based on membership at the lake where I ski. Not sure if my experience is representative of the larger community and was curious given the BOS large (very large for our sport) sample size.

[Horton]

@Anderson take a look at this https://www.ballofspray.com/Other/2018_Reader_Survey.pdf

[DSP]

Only 5% of those on BOS are female? Watching my wife browse different sites all that seems to be required would be more outfits. Whatever those are. Good luck

[Eljaybee]

@horton I agree if we use the parameters you put forward it will be very difficult to secure investment in our sport from potential sponsors. Maybe instead of “we don’t know who we are” I should have said we may need to re-evaluate or redefine who we are before going to market. I submit that the group is much larger then the demographic profile you suggest. One example to consider - highlighting the family segment of our community could be a huge asset to potential sponsors. There are a number of examples of the need to retool strategy in our community including boat and ski manufacturers. Those that reacted to the changing marketplace survived and grew their revenue and those that continued to market to a community that didn’t exist anymore unfortunately fell by the wayside. An example that I feel supports this idea of re-tooling strategy is in the ski industry....specifically the difference between the market approach of a Goode skis and that of HO. While both are legitimate and effective strategies it appears HO expanded their product offering to accommodate a larger audience and I would be confident that change in offerings grew their business. I feel if we re-define ourselves to maybe more of a water sports enthusiast consumer set we could increase our community’s population and it’s attractiveness to potential corporate partners. While we are developing the community I feel it is critical to engage that group through a number of vehicles (on-line, on-site, development programs, etc.) once this comes together I feel we increase our opportunity to engage sponsors. This may be happening but at the end of the day I am of the opinion that a summit across the multiple stakeholder groups would be beneficial to growing the community. Love the dialogue ... thank you for this forum.

[BraceMaker]

@Eljaybee - please refer them to the numerous young skiers of instagram who actually have pretty good lifestyle type instagram pages.

 

[disland]

For those follwing along here is the next article. Super interesting review of history of surf brands, and corporate takeovers. Very similar in a sense between the Goode starategy and HO

 

https://stabmag.com/news/finally-bluestar-alliance-speaks-on-the-hurley-buyout-and-mega-cuts/?fbclid=IwAR05G45_INVtddQu5MFRBzkN4XkZhKMvHFEtkd9l16Pijix7WvcugQI70rw

[Horton]

@disland am not sure about the comparison to water skiing but this image caught my attention.

 

[Anderson]

@Horton Thanks for the survey data! Some very interesting insights :+1:

[Horton]

@Eljaybee In order to market to a group that group must be a specific. The families of the core is not an identifiable group. If you think the solution is a bigger tent then water skiing becomes irrelevant. The kids of water skiers might tube but that is not an audience specific to water skiers. The kids of wakesurfers, fishermen and pontoon people also tube.

[unksskis]

“Tying in the right athletes, celebrities and influencers, in an inclusive way, is our goal."

 

This is all I needed to read. They are cutting the top name current surfer, going into it's Olympic debut, to "diversify" and attract additional demographics. They basically dropped Shaun White before he wins the Olympics, showing their brand everywhere.

 

While the monetary need to do this is understandable, they are likely following others' actions in ditching top athletes in a sport for "influencers" and celebrities, and washed up pro's who just need a sustained income(less $ than a current athlete). Just as many company's have done in our industry, specifically Mastercraft and Tige who ditched professional skiers/wakeboarders for Donovan Frankenreiter and Bethany Hamilton (respectively), as they may bring in more outside business.

 

I get it from a business, but they even state an outcome is alienating your base customer.

 

Enlighten me otherwise, but this is why I have and will continue to support and promote O'neill, as they have stuck to their roots, while supporting smaller markets such as waterskiing, and maintaining their identity.

 

Thanks for sharing disland.

[disland]

@horton when I lived in Hawaii in the 80's there were very few girls in the line up, and the ones that were didnt look like that, or I might still be living there. Actaully I still dont know why I left.

[jimbrake]

@horton - if you like that pic, then check out the "Surfers of Bali" channel on YouTube.

[Horton]

@unksskis how does O'Neil support water skiing? I guess Terry Winter still has some sort of deal with them but besides I think they have been out of water skiing for 15+ years.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

O'neill still makes comp Wake/ski vests @Horton

[Horton]

@ColeGiacopuzzi meh. Is that supporting the sport?

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

eh Kind of. Better than nothing. @Horton

[Horton]

@ColeGiacopuzzi really if they take sales for companies who are actually involved with skiing (Stokes, Camaro, Eagle) it is a negative.

[unksskis]

@Horton In addition to continuing to provide and innovate product for our use, they sponsor wakeboarders, which I would say "supports" the sport in some fashion. I still associate them as providing waterski product.

[Jordan]

over the years there have been a few individual athlete deals with non-traditional sponsors. Andy had a deal with Rolex. T-Gas did a 5 Hour Energy commercial. On the other hand, we lost a couple of named tour sponsors over the years. Even Mastercraft dropped sponsorship of the pro wakeboard tour.

[aupatking]

If they “support wakeboarding”, they do not support our sport. Wake boarding may end up being the death of our sport, as the wake boats take up all of the production space in the factories because.... they sell. To posers, but they sell.

[Stevie Boy]

When you talk about products outside of water ski equipment, Young people are the Target, they will spend money Now and in the Future and follow a Trend/Brand, Affluent 50+ is already established and fairly conservative when it comes to clothing etc.

The Demographic for our sport is not overflowing with youngsters to the level, that would attract sponsors.

Young people are our future as well as the future for potential sponsors, repeat custom and Millions of $1 is worth a lot more, than Hundreds of $100 you will get from the affluent people who will be a lot more careful when choosing what to buy.

[ALPJr]

Umm wetsuits, vests, clothing. I’ve picked some good Oneill stuff at @perfski

[ski6jones]

O'neill makes a great product and they stay in their lane. Not sure how much they support water skiing, but if you need a top notch wetsuit you're a fool if you don't consider their stuff.

[Tevskis]

@horton The support of Oneill for even Terry I think is quite debatable. I believe that he is only "half sponsored" through a friend and dealer of Oneill. I don't think it is a true sponsorship or support of even one athlete any longer :neutral:

[BraceMaker]

@ski6jones - That's not really the point, consider O'brien waterskis vs. HO waterskis or Radar - if you were to go out and want to buy a new tube a set of combo ski and a stand up paddleboard both brands are going to be a possibility.

 

But if you bought those products from HO or Radar who both as companies sponsor events, field a pro team,and are visible on social media giving a presence for the sport your dollars are working more for water skiing than the same dollars spent with O'Brien who sponsors Glenn Campbell? and maybe used to provide something to the Big Dawg but hasn't really been a player in the ski scene.

 

The exception - one reason I would buy something like an O'Neill over say a Stokes is that I tend to buy things like handles/gloves/ropes/vests/tops through my local Mastercraft dealer pro shop - I think that is important because it helps keep stuff available locally and prove the value of working with skiers. And if they sell O'Neill but not Eagle or Stokes - then that's an OK choice.

[ski6jones]

@BraceMaker seems like you are using O'Brien and O'Neill interchangeably. Either way my $$ go to the best product, or a waterski supporting company in a tie. Perfski has a great selection of O'Neill wetsuits, not to be confused with O'brien.

[BraceMaker]

No I am just picking 2 brands that make products that you can buy but really don't bother to support tournament waterskiing.

 

Outside of O'Neill making good wet suits and vests I challenge you to find a waterskier on their web presence. It is a surf brand.

 

O'Brien was the king in waterskiing. Now its I believe equity in suede brands portfolio.

[RAWSki]

O'Brien doesn't have the athletes or the skis they once did but they do still make a contribution to tournament skiing. As presenting sponsor of the Big Dawg. And a sponsor at the Masters every year. Their market has changed and they are leveraging their name to appeal to "weekend wallys" that might ski, surf or just float on a raft. Can't blame them for going to where the mass market is. Besides there are other brands in Kent Water Sports portfolio that still make tournament skis like Connelly and HO.

[perfski]

Some insights from a brick and mortar retailer....

 

First on all the surf industry companies...including O'neill, Rip Curl, Billabong, Reef, Fox, Quik, and more... From my experience...since all these companies at one point or currently have become incorporated or started selling direct....their focus is bottom line profit dollars. Especially if they have to report to stockholders. As such....EVERY...repeat EVERY "factory" website sells direct and has no real desire to connect consumers to shops (like mine) who invest in the brand and try to stock the product for consumers to try on / see in person. While the ski / wake companies haven't gone this route entirely....many ARE selling some items direct to consumer......AND they are allowing online stores who really don't stock much ski stuff / support skiing / or promote it to sell all their closeout products through channels like amazon and others.....ALL without having to stock the product... just drop ship it / let them collect the money. So shops like mine, who DO have overstock product they paid the regular cost on...have it in stock...are undermined by companies that don't stock it...don't support skiing...who can buy closeout products well below our cost, have it drop shipped and make money off skiing with investment OR any real connection to the sport. So if you are buying a slalom ski from just about any online store (other than the long time slalom specialty stores)...especially Amazon...be sure that your fin will not be adjusted right, and is being sold more than likely by a shop that DOES NOT support water skiing in any way, shape or form....much less gets out on the water to slalom ski...or gives back to the ski community.

 

On O'neill, and other surf companies ....I have BEGGED them to provide me with images of waterskiers wearing their products...both men AND women. Time and again, i've heard its not in our budget to do this....can't "afford" to do this....but really this boils down to a lack of desire on these brands to WANT to do it and see the VALUE in doing it for their brick and mortar shops....as well as their own brand. I've beat my head against the wall for almost a decade on these topics. Please don't get me wrong...there obviously are some people within these companies that believe there is a market to sell products that cross over into waterskiing....but there is major disconnect between them / marketing / ownership and the value to have any images of skiers using / wearing their product. Which I don't get as they do want me to order more product / sell more product... but they really don't promote or sponsor skiing in real / tangible ways....much less make it visible on their websites / social media platforms.

 

Ultimately....retail is changing. At one time...the surf / ski industry was focused directing consumers to shops that promoted and invested in the surf / ski lifestyle. Shops that stocked their products so that consumers could come in to see the new products, gain knowledge on the new gear, pick up the latest magazines....videos....and ultimately buy the product. But now...All your information on products, and creative content is available online...much of it on the factory websites that have "BUY NOW" buttons on them....but really don't make any real effort to connect consumers with shops that invest in the brand other than a hidden dealer locator at the bottom of a web page that lists any shop, mall store, theme park who has ever bought anything from them....but have no real vision of the purpose of a dealer locator... and the concept of connecting consumers....with shops that are stocking the products they are looking for.

 

Also Manufacturers have opened up the Direct to Consumer sales directly with major shopping channels like Amazon, Google and others. For me as a retailer...to sell on Amazon....Amazon asks for a 20% cut of the sale...and to be a "prime" store....offer free 2nd Day shipping....the numbers just don't work adding in $50 plus to ship a ski / board if we want to be able to run a storefront, pay good staff, and try to support skiers / events. For a manufacturer....the numbers can and do make alot more sense as they make MORE money by selling directly to Amazon than selling to / supporting a specialty shop like ours.

 

The other thing that I've really struggled to figure out relates to the growth of boat sales.....especially high end boats......the logical thought process here would like you to think that our sales for boards, skis, tubes and accessories would be growing if boat sales are growing....but this hasn't been the case. This has confounded me....as it doesn't make sense. People are buying more and more boats, but our sales a leading watersports specialty shop are NOT growing? Why? In talking to industry people...the general consensus is that ultra high end boats are NOT being bought as much by active enthusiasts.....as they are by people who are trying to have the biggest / baddest boats on the lake....and ones who want to "one up" their neighbors. Again, this is not a bad thing necessarily as they ARE new consumers, but we are struggling as a specialty pro shop to try and figure out how to better reach and nurture these clients. Ultimately my fear is that if they are having product "thrown in on the deal" that really isn't the right product for them to improve their time on the water...or isn't right for their needs.... So the customer gets their $150,000 boat...and lil Johnny jumps on the wakeboard, or ski throw in on the deal...but can get up on it.... is this really going to motivate mom and dad embrace the sport? Live the Lake Lifestyle? My fear is that we really aren't going to see these new customers stay in our sport for long. Where as a specialty shop like ours....the only way we stay in business is to focus on trying to help new customers ensure they have fun and success on the water. We HAVE to work to try and help consumers find products that meet their needs, and that work for them so they will have great times with their family on the water. If the ski industry / boat industry and online stores don't embrace this same type of focus...I worry that it will not help continue to foster the growth of these new boaters... and turn them from first time buyers to enthusiasts.

 

Please note here....all my comments above are MY opinions. Some may be on point, some may be way off. I add them to contribute to the discussion. Hopefully you can gather some insight here from them. Also to my vendors / companies I work with who may read this...I'm want to grow my sales with you all...but as I have asked each of you...PLEASE have the vision to support watersking, take photos of the ski /wake lifestyle and your products in it. Have your sales managers, owners, CEO's get out of their office and come on the water with us and use your products and see what its all about. You CAN grow your business with specialty stores and other channels...but it takes vision and understanding. Also your time on the water will help you to make BETTER products! I promise.

 

Lastly...to Horton, and all the Ball of Spray community....THANK YOU for your support of specialty shops like ours. Obviously we believe in the sport, forums like this, and learn from you all. We are working to find new ways to do a better job for you all...but also feel we owe it to you here to have some transparency of the challenges we face as a retailer. Its getting harder and harder these days...and we are streamlining to try and figure out how to move into the next 30 years of business in this industry. Thanks for the read.

Bill Porter - Founder -Performance Ski and Surf of Orlando Inc.