High end skis for all?

[Horton]

There was certainly a time with I thought it might be a bad idea to give a top of the line ski to a skier who does not yet shorten the rope. Also the current generation of mid-range skis are so good that I can understand less advanced skiers not looking to high end skis.

 

A few weeks ago I totally changed my mind on this. The local Radar rep dropped off some Vapors for college kids to try. These skiers are all 28 to 32 mph skiers. Most of them were skiing on what I would consider to be logical mid-range skis. Every one of them not only loved the Vapors but immediately skied better. The kid I coach the most moved her PB by 5 balls within 3 sets on the Vapor.

 

I now recommend the 2020 Radar Vapor for skiers at all levels.

[vtmecheng]

I wonder if the experiment would yield the same results with the other brands. It would be really interesting if all mid-range skies are basically obsolete beyond saving some cash.

[rawly]

Don’t make me spend my wife’s stimulus check on a new ski. Mine is already earmarked for the bindings. My 2018 Vapor is just fine , my 2018 Vapor is just fine , my 2018 Vapor is just fine.

[swc5150]

This does not surprise me in the slightest. I've tried to get my wife on an intermediate ski, as she's an open-water, -15 off girl. She always comes back to my Vapor, which I guess is "our" Vapor now. She feels it's far more stable and predictable. It's not just the Vapor either, as she felt the same when I/we were on a D3. I just think the high end sticks provide the best of everything, even if you're not pushing them.

[escmanaze]

Oh boy. I really hope this isn't true. I'm not ready to spend that money right now dangit!!!

 

Were the 28-32 mph skiers adjusting the length of the ski at all to account for the slower speeds?

 

@brooks can you please confirm that Horton is just crazy and I don't need to go blow two G's on a new ski?

[escmanaze]

For reference, here was my personal best at one point last year. 5 @34.2. I ended up running it a few days later and at one point even ran two of them in a row. So the ceiling on my skiing right now is just a touch above what you see here.

 

 

Previously, all conventional wisdom said that this made me a perfect candidate for a Senate (lithium in this case - 2018). So far I have loved my ski for the last year and a half. Part of me wants to be told that I could possibly ski better on, for example, a vapor pro build. Part of me doesn't want to hear that at all.

 

I assume there are a lot of guys out there in a similar place as I am.

[jcwaterskiparadise]

Sans rivals guys where dreaming about this years ago... i am not so sure as a waterski coach that all high end skis are for everybody. When you have poor technique, a softer ski, less agressive ski, might help you a lot more, but it's personal thinking, and maybe it's more affordable too...

[Ryota]

One of my student got 2020 Vapor graphite couple of months ago.

He started to ride on it from 26mph 15off.

That time was middle of winter and skied in drysuites.

But he immediately improved his PB to 3 at 36 /15off after about a month later!!!

2020vapor looks very working for him. Tip stays down, keeps great angles and speed and make predicable turns.

 

 

So jealous!!!

[6balls]

Some high end skis are pretty forgiving, too. It's not like back in the day taking a beginner and having them try an EP Stiletto...that never worked out well!

[BlueSki]

My 15 off wife loves her Vapor. This is her second. When she got her first she felt a huge confidence boost in her skiing because she knew she was good enough to handle and benefit from a top-end ski. Sure enough, she jumped a couple of passes.

[oldjeep]

I didn't notice a difference when I went from my senate to a vapor - aside from the lightness in my wallet. To me that said I should have just stayed on the senate and saved a bunch of money.

[Mick04]

Horton, Which Vapor? Pro, Lithium, Graphite, (Did they make an alloy Vapor?). Seems like 32mph course skier is in the sweet spot for the Graphite Vapor. At least according to Radar’s marketing. If it was a 28mph skier on a Pro Build, disregard what I just said.

[rawly]

@oldjeep , what year Vapor did you get ? Horton was talking about the 2020 version. Something may be up with this ski ?

[Anderson]

I'm about to try that experiment in reverse. Just finished my second year skiing the course. PB is 28 off at 34 mph, but I do most of my practice skiing at 32 mph working on 28-off. I ski on a 2019 Vapor Pro -- I like how it performs at 34 mph, but not so much at 32 mph. So I just bought a 2019 Senate Pro hoping for better performance at 32 mph while working on getting stacked and improving handle control. @Horton Bad idea? I don't know. I'll let y'all know how that works out :-)

[Horton]

@Mick04 Lithiums and Pros only.

[Horton]

@Anderson Senate Pro really is a high end ski.

[KRoundy]

This is very interesting and I'm going to closely watch how this idea develops. I've been wondering about this for quite a while. When I was younger I always skied on the best equipment I could get. I ski on a Senate now but it is getting older (2015 model) and I've lost enough weight that I want something smaller. Why not try out a Vapor?

[Jaypro]

@Horton, don't skis like the HO syndicate Omni and the Senate Lithium provide the needed extra width to skier slower to work on skills?

[Horton]

@Jaypro that is the theory and I do not disagree with it. I am just offering anecdotal evidence that hi end skis can be very successful for lower skilled skiers.

[elr]

Does a higher or lower end ski help you stand on the ski better? My guess would be that a higher end ski may actually help posture because it is more responsive.

[andjules]

I'm really interested in how the high-end shape with the low- or mid-level materials work for (i) mid-level course skiers and (ii) free-skiers (e.g. vapor/senate graphite, senate alloy, non-syndicate Omni).

 

On the one hand, it would be a sad state of affairs if we felt everyone carving at 28mph "needs" the newest $2,000 ski. On the other hands, if the shape really is better for anyone 28mph and above, it might makes sense for companies like Radar to re-think their broad product lineups and how to hit strategic price points while still giving people the best ski for their level. Would it be more profitable to offer 2 shapes and 3-4 layups vs 7 shapes?

[Jaypro]

@Horton, might be interesting to have the skier you are coaching to ski on both a Senate and Vapor and compare. You have a "controlled testing group" and variables could be kept the same or close to it. Results would be of interest to the ballers, I am sure!

[TEL]

I think it always circles back to, try before you buy. When I stared skiing the course I had the opportunity to try many skis and the high end just did everything better (easier turns, faster across course) Their were a few that would set more of an angle out of the buoy than I could hang onto at the time, did not know that a fin could be adjusted either. I put my GF on a mid line ski because she had never skied before and wanted a wider ski to make it

easier to get up on but that would turn and get her into turning buoys