What am I doing wrong?

[tjs1295]

I free ski public water (although only in good to great conditions) behind a 2007 Ski Nautique 196 at 32 mph. Rope length is 15 off. I always hear I should shorten it to 28 or 32 off for it to be really fun. I have tried this multiple times over the years, and can never get over the size of the second wake. It seems absolutely enormous to me, and smacks me hard when crossing. I don't think at all when crossing at 15 off, and am able to cut pretty good. Am I just not cutting hard enough? Why does it seem so much harder than 15 off? Thanks for any advice.

[h2onhk]

@tjs1295 that's weird. We also have a 2007 196. Has hydro-gate feature. With gate in slalom mode and boat speed 32-34mph the 15off rooster tail bump is considerably larger than at 22/28 off. At 30mph you are behind the rooster tail and at 36 you are just on the front edge. I've never really noticed the second wake. The most fuel we ever have is 1/2 tank and crew size up to 3 people in the boat and 1 behind the boat.

 

It may be because you are generating a lot more speed at 28/32 than at 15 and your stack may not be where it should be by the time you reach the wake.

[Sethro]

My friend's wife tried 28 off instead of her normal 22 off the other day at 30mph. She didn't like it because at 28 she was "landing" in the trough of the second wake. At 22 off she "lands" on the down slope of the second wake which is much less jarring on the body. Any chance that's what's going on for you?

[tjs1295]

The boat isn't loaded up. 1/2 tank at most, and my 130 pound wife driving. That's it. I'm on a carbon Omni. I'm definitely landing in the trough. Mostly because I'm still feeling it out. Stack can always be better. Just riding across the wake to see what they look and feel like, the 32 off size feels much bigger than 15 off. Is the goal to cut the second wake, or to generate enough speed off the prop wash to land on top of it? Maybe it's that I'm not used to having troughs instead of ramps for wakes? Either way, everyone makes it look so easy, and it feels a lot harder for me.

[MattP]

Have any video?

[Than_Bogan]

I see no reason to shorten if not rounding buoys. If you never plan to round buoys, then just keep doing whatever is FUN! If you do plan to round buoys someday, keep the line long and work on nothing but leverage position.

[tjs1295]

No video for right now. Might be able to get some tomorrow. Than, I think you're on the right path. I just keep thinking I'm missing out on the real fun. Especially when a lot of the advice is "shorten it up, and rip away." Definitely no plans for buoys. So should just keep on keeping on. I do have fun at 15 off.

[CR1]

That seems very odd that you're noticing more of a bump at 28/32 off than 15 off. Are you sure you're on edge and not flattening your ski at the wakes? What speed?

[Than_Bogan]

In that case, my general life advice is: Never let somebody tell you where the real fun is.

 

And now I will test you to see if you can follow that advice:

 

The real fun is rounding buoys.

[tjs1295]

CR1, 32 mph. I will cut through the first wake, rise at the prop wash, enter the trough, then slam into the second wake. Ski is flat at that point. Honestly I'm a little scared to pull hard at 32 off. At 15 off I give it what I can. Seems like a much bigger impact than at 15 off. I guarantee my form isn't stellar.

 

Than, I don't see buoys at any point in my skiing. I might have an opportunity once a year, but I'd have to travel. House and boat are right on the lake. I'm too lazy to go somewhere else, and the opportunities are slim in northern Wisconsin. Real short season on top of that. I just like going out at 0700, and trying to turn. I bet the course in addicting though.

[Skoot1123]

@tjs1295 - are you looking down at the wake when crossing it? If so that could cause you to flatten up before the second wake and launch you instead of the ski slicing through it. Maybe try a sustained less effort pull with the ski on edge through the entire wake (whitewash to whitewash) and see if that lessens the impact of the second wake.

[skimtb]

Keep doing -28. Then do it more. Then maybe more and more aggressively. Then....

I used to be 15 off only on public lake w decent water and occasional course.

I then tried exactly what you are because everyone said wake is better. I don’t recall exactly what it was but it was VERY weird / crazy / scary / hard. Like “holy Crap never doing that again” weird.

Surely me not having perfect form didn’t help anything.

I think the fact you are hitting trough vs ramp is the main difference, looking back.

Instead of a ramp your are getting two bumps. They are smaller though, but again - different.

Also the pull / swing / feel takes time to get used to.

So keep at it and eventually you will zip across and love it. You can pull harder and will skip through vs hitting the 15 off ramp.

32 is even better. Your hull is good.

Enjoy summer.

[ScottScott]

Most boats/most speeds 22off is going to be the biggest bump as that is the peak. 15 off is behind it a little and is a little better, 28 off gets in front and starts getting smaller. The trough is different, and if you are back foot heavy it can effect how you come down over the main bump possibly hitting the up-slope of that trough in a weird way. Too much back foot will cause the front of the ski to come up at the 1st wake, and depending on timing it can even slam back down and end up taking a nose dive into the upslope of the trough. Work on getting your hips more over your front foot and see if the ski doesn't stay a little more horizontal as you get air off the 1st wake, then the 2nd wake wont be an issue.

[tjs1295]

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I need the give it a few more attempts. I'm definitely flattening out, and slamming into the second wake. The trough feels odd to me. Probably just need to try it more. I just thought there was something magical at 32 off, and that with no effort it would be a sweet ride.

[jimski]

@Than_Bogan ill second that

[MDB1056]

Personally I find 32 much easier more stable and more enjoyable than 15 . Rhythm is easier to get in sync and wake behind most any boat is better.

[LK_skier]

Go back to 15 off - enjoy it. perhaps the extra speed generated is making you flatten off your ski and hitting the wake hard instead of on an edge... oh and a good way to really ruin open water skiing is to start using a slalom course as @Than_Bogan said - its fun...

[tjs1295]

@skimtb summed it up perfectly. That's exactly how I feel. Heading out soon for a lot of fun 15 off, and maybe a little more experimenting at 28 off. And no, I'm not a cartel employee, but my employer does make me work a lot of weekends and holidays ?, so weekdays are off.

[Fast351]

I'm the same way. I only free ski, and I feel I'm getting better at 15@32MPH. I would hope so after 80 sets this year. Just for shits and grins I shortened to 28 because my ski partner runs at 28. It felt like I was hitting a curb compared to 15 off. (This was with just my wife and I skiing).

 

I asked him about it next time, and he was like, "yeah, you have to be on edge, no doubt about it". Also mentioned when you get tired and sloppy to be careful.

 

I think I will stick to 15 off for a while yet. Maybe if I ever get a chance to try course skiing I might worry about it.

 

BTW this is behind a 2001 (MY) Ski Nautique so just about the same hull.

 

[gsmith795]

I was in your exact position a year ago @tjs1295. I’d been free skiing behind my 1986 Ski Nautique for a few years, mostly doing 15off at 32-34 mph and feeling frustrated with the size of the wakes behind my antique ski boat. I skiied behind a 93 Nautique and it didn’t feel much better. I also had the chance to ski behind a 2018 a couple years ago and while it was nice, it didn’t suddenly make me a great skier.

 

My 60 year old neighbor who has been slalom skiing for 30+ years told me that 32 off was the magic line length for my boat that would change my whole experience. I tried 32 off one time last summer. Within 30 seconds I dropped into that huge trough, gave the ‘cut it’ signal to the driver, and had the spotter put me back to 15off. Didn’t try it again for the rest of the summer.

 

Last weekend I decided to try it again, only this time I was getting much better at leaning away from the boat and trying to keep the ski on edge. I discovered that with the right speed and edge I skipped right over the trough and across the wakes. It was like I was finally slalom skiing for the first time. It was definitely one of the high points of my slalom experience. If you take it slow and easy, the trough feels really deep and uncomfortable. If you pull hard and go for it, you’ll float right across and it will be much more satisfying than the speed bumps you get at 15off.

 

Good luck and report back!

[gsmith795]

Just typed up a really long carefully thought out response and it disappeared... anyway what I said was that I was in the same situation last year, tried 32 off, hit the trough, hated it, went back to 15off.

 

Just tried 32 off again last weekend, only this time I leaned back, stayed on edge, and felt my ski float right across the trough. It was like I truly slalom skiied for the first time and I can’t wait to get out there and try it again.

 

Long story short, 15off is a speed bump, 32 off is a trough, it’s much easier to skim across a trough than a bump. Key is to just go for it at full speed and you’ll feel your ski glide right across the gap.

[h2onhk]

@gsmith795 that's awesome. Glad you figured out what the issue was and can now experience how much fun it is to free ski 28 and 32off. The connection and swing from the boat are light-years beyond 15off. Enjoy!

[tjs1295]

@gsmith795 Great insight!! I did more playing around at 28 off yesterday. It does feel better each time. Any major differences between 28 and 32 off? I was going to practice more at 28. But should I just go to 32 off?

[gsmith795]

@tjs1295 on my ‘86, yes there was a difference, not sure if there would be as much on your ‘07 but I’m guessing there would be some. On my boat, 22 off is basically right on top of the rooster tail, and 28 off is slightly in front of it. Both lengths are still in the ‘bump’ range where you are hitting a raised wake. 32 off seems to be the start of the ‘trough’ range where the wake dips down instead of protrudes up. And as I mentioned in my previous post, a trough feels more uncomfortable at a slower speed but is easier to cross at a higher speed