55K World Elite Slalom

[Alberto Soares]

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Water-Ski/News/2020/August/20/55K-WEST-Announced

[fernandofleck]

@Alberto Soares ???

[AdamCord]

 

They're calling this an "Elite" event? Then let the Elite skiers compete.

[Horton]

I have been on both sides of rules like that. @adamhcaldwell famously was excluded from a BigDawg because he had skied in the "wrong division" or some such at a BallOfSpray Cash Prize.

 

When I originally started my events I had a rule like that because Mapple was winning EVERY BigDawg he entered and I thought it hurt appeal of the event. Now with a skier like @AdamCord it is silly to exclude him because he will change his fin settings after every ride and eventually cartwheel onto shore.

 

You can't make all the people happy. Not sure if I agree or disagree with this one.

 

@bishop8950 opinion?

[alex38]

Anyone have a list of competitors? Maybe know some definite entries? Maybe it’s on the website and I missed it?

[Horton]

http://www.55kwest.com/rules/

 

Who is Eligible:

 

• Skiers 35 years and older (man or woman) with an IWWF Ranking List average of at least 4 @ 11.25m (38’ off)

at 55k (buoy count average of 100) at any time within the 2 years prior to the event per IWWF April or October

rank lists (for example, if the most recent list to the event is April 2020, then any skier with a 55k average of 4

@ 11.25m (100) at any point from the April 2018 IWWF Ranking List to the April 2020 list is eligible.

• Any skier that has previously competed in a 55K L sanctioned cash prize Head to Head event in an age class

or MM division.

 

 

Who is Not Eligible:

 

• Any skier that has competed in any Open Men (OM) Slalom event in the 2 years prior to 9/18/2020. However,

anyone 50 or older, who is otherwise eligible, is not rendered ineligible despite having competed in OM division

in the 2 years prior to 9/18/20.

 

[brettmainer]

I agree with @AdamCord

Let everyone 35+ or pro women ski or change the name of the tournament to, “Elite Women plus Really Good But Not Actually Elite Skiers Aged 35-49 and Elite Male Skiers 50+.

[Horton]

@brettmainer I do not see your entry for the Cash Prize so your opinion here is wrong.

[klindy]

What it boils down to is an event organizer had an idea for something and set down the rules. It may be a hit, maybe it’ll be missing something, maybe no one will like it. Either way they ARE having the event, it’ll probably have some great skiing. Somethings will work perfect and others will be tweaked later.

 

Point is everyone of you guys can do precisely the same thing with your own set of ideals and rules and see how it goes. obviously a lot of thinking went into the rules so let it play out! Sounds like fun!!

[mbabiash]

I’d love to see @TFIN compete in this.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

This event is an attempt to get back to what the old Big Dawgs were -good competition, lots of fun, less issues with 2 or 3 skiers outclassing the working guys, more about the skiers and less about the sponsors.

 

If I wasn’t past my expiration date I would be all over it. Should be a great event.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

So @brettmainer is your intent simply to let Regina in and kick the old guys butts, or do you have other ideas?

 

Seriously, I’m not opposed to including females but what is your idea and when are you hosting a similar event?

[kc]

I know a lot of effort is being put into this event. There were entry lists posted at one time. I’m sure it’s fluid, given travel concerns, etc, but from what I saw, the event won’t be lacking in quality or quantity of skiers. Should be great, and it’s awesome that it will be webcast.

[Horton]

Having given this some thought I would have simply made it a Never Made 39 off event. The exclusion of a few guys who have skied open does mean much when SuperGreg, Trent, Chet, Jeff Rogers, Miller and a few other guys who can get to 3 or more at 41 are allowed to ski.

[mmosley899]

Regardless of the exclusions, it should be a fun event. Lake 38 is an awesome site to ski. It will be a great family outing for us, my daughter is Chief Judge, my son-in-law is an appointed scorer and I am an appointed judge. Fun at the lake with our friends!

[bishop8950]

Bart has had ideas for years about how we could improve on the Big Dawg or do something different. He has put a lot of thought into it and this year he is actually doing it. Not easy to put something like this together in your spare time. If you like it and are eligible per the rules then sign up. If you think the rules should be different, then have your own event and run it how ever you like.

 

I originally signed up and wish I could go, but can’t for non skiing reasons. The field is really strong and I hear Lake 38 puts on incredible events so I am sure I will be missing out. Good for Bart and Marc Shaw for getting this all lined up. I hope they have a great event and do another in the future so I can come and throw down with the boys.

 

 

[Horton]

@Drago why the dislike.

[brettmainer]

I guess my point is that, if you are going to have a 34mph “elite” tournament, then let everyone 35+ or female enter. If Terry, Rossi, Caldwell or Regina wins, great. It is not about rigging the tournament to exclude the best, it is about having the best ski in an “elite” tournament. So what if you run 2@41 and get 5th? That is better than winning an “almost elite” tournament.

I max out a pass below that, so I don’t have a dog in the fight myself. And ok, @Horton, I will sign up for the ballofspray tournament, even though it would be less effort and easier on my elbow just to give Terry my $200 next time I see him. You still owe me a hat for last year’s nationals photo contest.

 

[bishop8950]

Maybe Bart should have called it the “Bart Invitational” instead. All this chatter just because it says “Elite” in the event name?

 

Can anyone confirm there was a skier that wants to go, but is excluded by the rules? Who? Or is this just an arbitrary debate?

[Stevie Boy]

We all want to see more events or series like the Big Dawg Tour, it takes Time, Effort and Costs Money to put on such an event, for all the people that want to criticise, give it a go and see how much work is involved or alternatively, sit back on your couch, do nothing but throw grenades.

I salute any team of people, who are willing to move forward with events of this nature.

[Drago]

@Horton Guys That Have Run 39:

Larson Ware Beamon Stisher Sheldrake LaFaver Brandt Korinick Schroeder Sund Milford Montgomery Tate Menasci Ashenbrenner Cord Shaw Kuykendall Morgan Aschenbrenner Hirst Robinson Tynan Scott Binkley Butterfield Jones Huston Harris Ise Danos Dehlinger Kepchia

Women That Have Run 39:

Overton Hamrick Nowlan Jaquess McClintock Coble Costard Baldwin Dumala Bull

[Horton]

@Drago Now I understand where you're coming from. Perhaps this is the wrong thread to have this conversation. I don't want to detract from the event that is happening. My comments are based on the fact that I have thought long and hard about how to create an over 35 event. I'm not sure their solution is better or worse than mine.

[mmosley899]

@Drago actually there are a lot more of us that have run 39 off, we are just a lot older now.

[Drago]

Yep @mmosley899 , I'm one of them. My apologies

[aupatking]

It should be a great event. In the “probably not for this thread” vein, I always thought that the Big Dawg tour should’ve been no different than the PGA Senior Tour, everyone over the age should be able to compete. I don’t care if it’s working Joes or Pros. I think seeing all the older pros ski is the most interesting and potentially more crowd pleasing than excluding them. To see CP, TFin, Terry, Caldwell, vs the world would be super fun to watch and would be the best test of “the next step” or at least a good promoter of the “next age bracket”. Something has to give these guys a reason to keep competing. So, they basically can’t ski in a tournament for 2 years? What’s the point in that?

[bishop8950]

There are many top skiers mentioned in this thread the authors assumed are excluded, but are totally eligible per the rules. These top skiers have chosen not to attend, they were not excluded by the rules.

 

Many ex pros are not interested in competing this sort of event, yet others like Rodgers and Favret are. To each their own.

 

Bottom line, if Terry Winters or Chris Parish showed up and destroyed the field, it would wreck the event for the participant field it was intended for. Some separation is important.

 

Some wanted the Big Dawg to be the “old guys pro tour”, but most did not. But that is a different animal than what the event organizers set out to do here. Apples and Oranges.

[Than_Bogan]

Rename to Bart Invitational and done.

 

Elite has been used for a long time in pro waterskiiing, in a way that doesn't match this exclusion.

 

Minor semantic point. But also easy to fix!

[mshaw200]

Guys.....my advice to anyone that doesn’t like the rules, title or anything else about this event would be to talk / type less and do more....and to be clear as to what I mean by do more I mean put on your own event and make up your own rules.

 

This crap isn’t easy....sitting behind a Computer screen and complaining....THAT is easy. I don’t want toil sound like a jerk but guys.....any rule we come up with is going to piss off someone.

 

[aupatking]

@bishop8950 and @mshaw200 I wasn’t talking about this tournament, I really do think this will be a great tournament. Keith puts on great events and I’m sure the organizers have worked their tails off. As I said, I was talking about the Big Dawg tour, or at least that type of tour. Sorry for any confusion or insult that may have been taken. It was definitely not intended that way

[liquid d]

With any luck , the Big Dawg or 55 West will be there when Adam Caldwell is done skiing pro...or turns 50. He seems to be doing pretty good at 36 right now at the Malibu.

[darinmontgomery]

I’d like to have Caldwell, TFin, Rossi and any others at this event or future Big Dawg. I believe TFin and Rossi are eligible and we’re invited, hopefully, they will be able to make some events next year.

 

The rules are the rules so the guys skiing at Malibu or other Open tournaments won’t be eligible for WEST or Big Dawg under the current formats.

 

Perhaps a new Open to all over 35 format is worth exploring or even just an Open to all 55k tournament.

 

It’s great to see there is a high level of interest in this style of tournament format that will hopefully lead to more and more events in the years to come.

[mshaw200]

..

[AdamCord]

@mshaw200 you don’t see the irony in not inviting open men over 35 to this event, but then in complaining that open women skiers “don’t have the balls to join us”?

 

And speaking of that...this is pretty demeaning to OW skiers who train day in and day out to be at the peak of their sport. What is the upside for these women to come to an event like this, where most have no chance of winning? They are pushing women’s slalom to the absolute limit and inspiring many young skiers to compete. They don’t need to prove anything by skiing against a bunch of men.

[liquid d]

Chill out, drink decaf, and we'll all look forward to your perfect event next time. Gee, i wonder why it's so hard to grow the sport?

[Wish]

If my wife or daughter was a women’s pro skier (man I wish I could ski that well) I’d steer them clear of this event as well after that insulting rant questioning a pro women's or any women’s integrity and honesty coming from the organizer. Horrible word choices as well and disappointing to see so little respect for women on an open forum. Let’s see if Mark “has the balls” to apologize.

[Than_Bogan]

I'm pretty surprised by the vitriol. Let people run whatever divisions they want, and skiers can vote with their presence or absence.

[D3dude]

I think we got a couple of dudes with their panties in a wad...sort of surprised the ref hasn't stepped in

[AdamCord]

@D3dude he’s not awake yet. Gotta get the good comments in while he’s asleep.

[aupatking]

That is a pretty low shot at Regina. Awesome girl that does a ton for us

[Horton]

[teammalibu]

Had to double check, for a sec I thought I was on Skifly!

[BG1]

Regina has more guts than any slalom skier I’ve ever watched. Started watching around 1977.

[Milford]

This thread is certainly killing the vibe of this tournament. Really surprised to see the comment from Mark and the tone.

[Than_Bogan]

Not sure if any cares about the distinction, but it wasn't "deleted" -- it was "buried," which happens automatically when there is a large number of Dislikes.

[Wish]

I removed my dislike so it can be shown in full. Without it, it makes the rest of the postings sound like nonsense. Looks like 5 dislikes buries a post.

[Horton]

Ok let's be adults. This event is a good thing. These guys are putting on something unique and we should applaud them for their efforts.

 

If they are doing anything wrong it is only that their messaging lacks finesse. If you're going to step up and announce something nationally you must think about how it will be perceived. PR is a thing...

 

I hope the event is a success. The venue is excellent and I fully expect a really fun weekend. I wish I could be in attendance.

[APB]

Low shot at Regina.

[mshaw200]

I apologize for my rant. I just had an argument with someone, I was in a bad mood and misdirected my irritation.

 

My apologies to any I offended.

 

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton I can almost remember when adults were capable of "being adults."

[Horton]

@Than_Bogan you know the world is upside down when I appear to be the voice of reason