How to improve off side and keep tip of ski down

[Charliesav7]

How to improve off side and keep tip of ski down,

 

I am having trouble on my off side to really get angle and keep the ski down? Any solutions?

[ral]

Post some video...

[LK_skier]

A round tail block on a DV8...

[TimBeier]

I would try to be less opened in relation to the boat. Rotate your Body in the direction you wanna go and try to have an immediate pull on the forward arm (1,3,5; left arm and 2,4,6; right arm)

[ForrestGump]

@charliesav7 Almost all troubles start ahead of where you perceive the problem to be. Think about that for a bit and trace back a ski run. This will be hard for you and us to analyze without some video. In changing what happens behind the boat, you might be trying to band-aid a symptom and not the cause agent.

[ReallyGottaSki]

Stance

[jayski]

cheeseburger...stay calm and say cheeseburger through the finish of the turn...then #beastmode

[Clydesdale]

@jayski that’s awesome. As a chronic turn-rusher I’m trying it!

[rimodico]

I was having the same problem I decided to adjust the fin back to stock and magically resolved my off-side issues

[Charliesav7]

 

[Charliesav7]

Couldn’t get the video but here’s a look at it.

 

Thanks

[ReallyGottaSki]

Solid.

Let's see the cut as well please

 

I suspect your cut may not be progressively loading

 

Appears deep in the water; what is your boat speed?

[Charliesav7]

 

[Horton]

Ok guys, I will give a BallOfSpray Beanie to the best reply to this thread and I will viciously abuse the least insightful posts. GO!

[skialex]

You need to go to a ski school. It will be your best spent money!

[Horton]

@skialex true but if that is the best advice we can generate then i quit.

[A_B]

Popcorn on the stove now.. actually Pepperidge Farms cherry turnovers...

 

Not seeing your wake crossing leading the the offside turn really leaves one to wonder what you did to get into such a predicament. The main points to work into your new muscle memory are needing to turn the offside by pushing your knees together after the wake and drive the front kneecap over the front binding and feel like your are driving your front big toe into the water. I assume you feel safe skiing on the back foot (we all did), and you need to go to unsafe mode by standing taller on the ski and more equally weighting on each foot. The pic you posted looks like you are zipping through the offside turn with straight legs and loaded up on the back foot. As you get more ski in the water sooner before the turn and on edge, you will be rewarded with a ski that will begin turning on its own. All you need to do is rotate the hips around to the handle to drive the finish.

 

[Charliesav7]

@

 

This is the cut @ReallyGottaSki

[A_B]

Stance

 

https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/24706/athletic-stance-binding-setup-jaimee-bull-fpm-podcast-4

[A_B]

@Charliesav7 post a pic of you on the second wake and midway out to the turn. Thanks

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Charliesav7 tip rise on the offside is almost always due to way too much weight on the back foot (Yeah that’s Captain Obvious for many), but weight on the back foot is just as often the result as well as the cause.

 

Without video its hard to isolate, but from your second pic your front leg is locked and pretty much all your weight is on your back foot.

 

I don’t know what it is about lefties but locking the front leg is almost exclusively a leftie problem.

 

The best thing you can do is focus on your balance on the ski. Try to get 100% of your weight on your front foot (yes thats not realistic but that is the slalom skier’s goal). Slight front knee and ANKLE bend are crucial. Get the feeling riding behind the boat then try to keep it through the pull and turns.

 

While you are doing that try to keep the handle in direct contact with your hips.

 

Once you correct those 2 things you can move to finer points

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Oh, WTF is a BallOfSpray Beanie?

[skiboyny]

It’s tough to see all that’s going on with just 3 frames. As others have mentioned weight more on the front foot when going in to your off side you should have some front knee bend and be concentrating on standing tall while engaging the front of your ski by pressuring the ball of you foot. It doesn’t show but if your releasing one arm, your picture shows both hands on the handle and I can see some white water but your ski isn’t turned far enough. You need to keep your hand extended a bit longer to let your ski turn till the tip is almost under the rope when you free hand is back on. Hope this makes some sense.

[ReallyGottaSki]

I would love to learn you maintain that angle to and through the wakes but the absence of water in the air before the apex suggests one is coming into the turn soft on energy then grabbing a big handful of turn that can't be sustained, and loose out on producing accelerating power over more area.

Something may be out of balance.

As been said, that locked knee is indicative of a heavy rear leg, and is likely also heavy when just skiing straight and level.

[Horton]

@Bruce_Butterfield

 

[Dano]

Agree with everything above. Looks like speed into and thru the turn is too slow. Which could be causing you to fall to the rear of the ski as you are essentially sinking, and that causes you to rush back to the handle with your free hand to pull yourself back on top of the ski before you can complete the turn and accelerate back to the wakes. The picture of your cut shows how deep your ski is in the water exiting the turn (sinking), while your stance is not too bad, the handle needs to much lower with straight arms down by your hip all the way thru the wakes. Doing so will create more speed into the wakes and into the next turn. That speed will give you the stability you need to stand correctly on the ski and complete the turn without feeling like your going to fall over.

[Charliesav7]

@ReallyGottaSki would fin settings or binding placement help?

[BG1]

Size of ski, your height and weight, binding placement, fin settings, rope length, and boat speed. Also a picture of you straight behind the boat if possible.

[Cam]

Before you do anything I would change that ski pole, apart from looking home made that is some amount of hardware to take your face out if that weld fails :#

 

 

[Wish]

@Cam deserves a beanie from the dollar store, at the least, for catching that.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Charliesav7 what kind and size front binding are you using? Can't tell for sure from the pic, but it looks way bigger than your leg would indicate.

 

Specifically, is your foot snug or does it move around inside the binding? Does it have a really thick foot pad that raises your foot up more than 1/2" from the ski?

[KRoundy]

As has been said, this is really difficult from a couple of photos, but here are some tips:

1. You definitely need to work on balance/stance. Your legs are locked out / straight in two of the three photos, which means you have your weight too far on the back of your ski. Think hard in your next ski about moving your weight forward not by squatting, but by rotating your ankle to move that front knee over your left foot. A good friend often says, “If you feel like you are putting 100% of your weight on your front foot you’re probably only really putting it at 50/50.” It’s not natural.

2. Keep your hands low. I would appear that you have the handle a long way from your body. Think about keeping the handle down at your hips, especially when you are in that acceleration phase. Even on your pullout - keep that handle low.

3. Be patient in the turn. This might be the easiest or most obvious thing that I see in these photos: You have both hands on the handle way too early in both turns. Release (keeping the handle low), reach forward, wait for the ski to completely come under the rope and then grab and go.

 

There are a couple of episodes of Spray Makers that would be great for you to have a listen:

Core Fundamentals

Ski Set Up

Offside Turn

Onside Turns

 

And finally - you are doing great! Keep it up and have fun!

[scoke]

@Bruce_Butterfield

"I don’t know what it is about lefties but locking the front leg is almost exclusively a leftie problem"

 

I'll tell you why, they have the wrong foot forward and are too stubborn to admit it!! I quit counting or trying to help the left leg locker-outers.

 

Here is the solution to this thread, YOU'VE GOT THE WRONG FOOT FORWARD, SWITCH FEET!

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@scoke, I think the real problem is their brains are wired backwards. Switching feet wouldn't fix much, but would be very entertaining!

[bigtex2011]

@Charliesav7 as you move outbound your reach and inside hip need to move towards the directions your are wanting to go. think about how a bicyclist or skateboarder move to the inside before and during there turns.

 

 

[VONMAN]

@Charliesav7 Your offside/TOE side turn is a problem we all suffer with. It requires you to put more tip pressure on the ski as you reach the apex of the turn. Engaging the tip of the ski to turn. It can be accomplished by reaching forward and shifting your upper mass. Or flexing your front knee forward and shifting your body mass forward to engage the tip of the ski. Add dropping your inside hip as you approach the apex. If you drop your hip you must commit.

[MarcusBrown]

@Charliesav7 if you want to work on your carving turn, you HAVE TO get to a wider point on the boat.

 

From these pics, it looks like you are simply too narrow to give yourself a chance to be free enough from the boat to implement all the good tips you are getting in this thread.

 

If I were coaching you, I would simply have you work on a better Athletic Stance (hips over feet, shoulders over hips) when you pull into the wakes, and I would encourage you to make sure you hold your edge through the center of the wakes....

 

Its my feeling that this should help you swing up beside the boat, to a higher point, and give you the freedom to feel more balanced into and out of each offside (or onside) carve.

[Joeprunc]

@Charliesav7

From your third picture, your onside pull looks fairly strong. In general finishing an onside turn and connecting with the handle you have a more natural and comfortable body position with hips and shoulders connecting to the line and boat. Because of this you are able to finish an on side turn and maintain great lean angle going through the wakes...However this strong pull and good angle generates A LOT of speed. This speed is good, but also hinders many folks that don't have the same technique on their offside. These excessive speed generated from your onside pull is too much for you to setup and execute a successful offside turn. When we are going TOO FAST the natural human intuition to slow down is lean back which results in a heavy back foot, a slow turn, and difficulty finishing your offside turn. My guess is your difficultly in the offside turn and pull initiates from not getting forward on the ski. The onside speed carried into the offside turn might cause one to want to scrub speed before initiating the next turn.

 

My suggestion to you is two part:

1) Temporarily ease up your onside pull just a smidge to decrease your entry speed on your offside pre-turn. This will allow more you comfort and time to work on your offside pre-turn, turn, and reconnecting with the handle.

2) Turn Help:

- In you preturn push your hips forward on the ski and focus on applying weight to your left big toe. This will do a few things: Keep you from applying back foot pressure to slow, keep your hips from falling over your rear foot, and engage the tip of the ski to generate a better turn.

- When the ski rips around be patient coming back to the handle and focus on not connecting to the handle until the ski tip crosses the line. (the offside picture you posted shows your ski point down river and you are already two hands on the rope)

- Once you connect focus on keeping hips up, and use your visual point of reference through the pull (some focus down course, I focus on the spotter or back of the boat).

 

As your muscle memory gets better on the offside turn, start increasing the intensity of your onside pull.

 

Summary:

Less Juice on your onside

Hips UP

Big Toe

Patient

Hips UP

Point of reference

Repeat

 

[bsmith]

@Charliesav7 I am a beginner course skier not much further along than you and the offside turn and body position are still my biggest problems. In order to run the course for the first time, I had to spend a lot of time improving those aspects of my skiing.

 

Your onside body position actually looks great to me. You are "stacked", ie. your body is linear and perpendicular to the ski and you have a forward lean in the direction of travel which is very advantageous but also difficult to achieve even for advanced skiers.

 

Since we don't have a full video of you crossing the wake, what I suspect is happening is that you are standing up too soon and not holding your cut through the first wake. As a beginner it is scary to be leaned away from the boat and hold a load through that first wake and pass through the center line of the boat path with a lot of speed. You need to practice hitting the wakes at speed from both sides and get comfortable doing that.

 

The onside turn is very forgiving of not carrying speed through the wakes and thus you are still able to make a good turn and set a good cross angle. But the off side turn requires you to carry enough speed into it that you become "free of the boat" and wide enough on the boat that you get a feeling of no pull from the rope. It is during that freedom from the boat that you force the ski to turn starting from your feet up. You should have as much weight as you can on your front foot and your upper body should lag behind your lower body on rotation. Let this rotation phase take some time so that the ski can achieve the cross course angle you want before the load hits.

 

For a beginner, making the ski turn on the off side does not come naturally. For me, I could not just rely on the ski carving on its own. I felt like I had to provide a lot of physical input to help the ski turn.

 

On final tip on carrying speed into the off side turn, make that speed early with a hard cut into the first wake. If you keep cutting hard past the second wake, you will definitely make speed into the turn, but you will also turn into a ton of slack.

[loeweb]

Get further away from the wake. try to get the turn to happen without resistance from the boat. Once we get resistance, we want to fight back, and ride the tail because the ski isn't in an efficient position. Get into a stacked position and hold it through the second wake.

[Fastguy888]

Not enough information to give you an effective answer but I want a Beanie from @horton So here is my best guess: It looks like you are enjoying some open water slalom without buoys? Hard to tell but possibly turning early, less wide than the buoys would be in some of the pics. Between the 2 hands on handle and tight rope tension in each pic you may be using the boats pull as a balance point to pull you through the turn rather than your own speed generated across the wakes. With slack or neutral rope at the apex of the turn generated by speed across the wakes; you would be forced to move your body forward to balance.

[KRoundy]

Final tip from me: Listen to @MarcusBrown !!

[Horton]

Is the the best you guys got? If so I will read all this and find a winner.

[KRoundy]

@Horton - When Marcus Brown chimes in on giving advice to a skier it's hard for the rest of us to keep up. But, it is interesting how many are giving out similar advice / observations from the data that is available to us. Good luck separating the wheat from the chaff here. :)

[thager]

Don't ski like I do and you will be golden. @Horton did I win?

[Live2ski]

If you want to try any of the stuff suggested then a good starting point will be to STOP linking turns. Right now I’d guess you are focusing on the turns and as you come off the wake you are throwing yourself into a turn that “feels good” and getting frustrated that the handle isn’t tight where you want it to be out your offside - its what we all did :)

When you ski like this there is no “time” to practice anything.

“Exercises” are few in slalom but in your case it would be good to spend some time separating out the cut from the turn:

I’d spend some sets practicing cutting (from as wide a point as you can - evenly balanced before you turn in) - trying to implement some of the good “stack” advice and see how far you can glide up on the boat on the other side before you equalize speed with the boat and slide back in for another cut. Essentially practicing gate turn ins from both the sides.

This is just as much fun as linking the turns, as you’ve doing, because you develop the skill of accelerating and being safely stacked through the wakes - ultimately seeing how fast you can go and how high you can get on the boat.

Take video / photos to review body position and get that dialed in first.

Your turns will be an entirely different issue after that ......

 

Note: you could look at Seth Stisher “whips” video on YouTube, although he isnt gliding out wide before each turn, I’m suggesting a stage before that where you totally disconnect the turns from the cut.

[condorpilot]

@Horton hey John who won the prized beanie ?

December 4 “ Is this the best you guys got? If so I will read all this and find a winner”

Last input December 5.

 

Weathers getting cold here and wondering:

 

Should I enter the competition?

Is Horton a slow reader?

Is he still deciding who should win?

Has he sold the beanie?

Is it wrapped and under his tree for someone? ?

 

 

[Horton]

@condorpilot oh darn I totally forgot. I'm going to have to sit down and read through this whole thread carefully. thanks for reminding me

[condorpilot]

@Horton so if you’re undressing the skeleton, can I claim his BOS T shirt?

 

[scoke]

@Charliesav7

 

Did you switch your feet yet?