Gutted versions of newer boats

[Fastguy888]

Google Trends is a great tool to look at this:

 

 

 

 

[chrislandy]

Access and visibility, I'm not talking ESPN or TV type stuff

 

If we had a multi discipline comp & display similar to Moomba in Birmingham or London every year, there would be more demand, therefore more lakes / rivers would get permission for ski clubs / free skiing. Our "proper" ski clubs are pretty much at capacity, so more demand = more clubs.

 

Why doesn't anyone (mainstream towsports) trick anymore? Because nobody sees it.

Same for slalom, but you need a slalom course, so lack of access

Only a few specialty clubs here now have a jump, so extreme lack of access and visibility. Of the near 100 clubs in the UK, less than 30 have one!

 

We only have maybe 2-3 lakes in the UK (1 in Ireland, 1 in Scotland and 1 in England) that you could use a G23 on and 99% of our water ski clubs are hidden away from the public as they are reclaimed gravel pits on industrial sites.

 

Most permission problems here are due to noise, hence why cable parks have popped up everywhere (not realising that boards banging on ramps all day make noise!) so roll on the electric boat!

[WDKinley]

mid 90s boats (196, 197, 205, sport nautique, echelon, sportster, sportstar, etc.) can be found from 6K-12K all day long. Add perfect pass with zbox (zero off emulator).... and boat spray only becomes an issue at 35 headwind or shorter. I've heard many 28-35 off skiers say that the perfect pass with zbox gets them within a buoy or two of zero off boats. These older boats weigh 23XX LB-27XX LB. The new ski boats weigh 33XXLB. Believe it or not the power to weight ratio is better in many of the old ones.

 

If I can emphasize anything on this forum.... please help your friends find budget ski boats to get them started in the sport. Over the years I've got 5-10 friends/acquaintances OUT of I/O's and into older ski boats. Sold a couple boats multiple times after the first purchaser realized the sport wasn't for them. Watch craigslist / SIA for good quality used gear to help them out. If your friends get hooked.... you may even get a driver for life ;)

[ForrestGump]

The down turn in the sport predated the big boats, the expensive boats, and Zero Off.

[WDKinley]

wakeboarding definitely disrupted the ski industry.... many of us have migrated back.

[Dysco]

I blame Tony Finn. Without his rad moves on the Skurfer, we'd all be better off.

[Horton]

I know many of you are going to be shocked to hear me say this but wakeboarding and wake surfing have kept the boat and ski companies afloat for decades. A diversified marketplace is better than a overly narrow marketplace.

 

From a purely AWSA perspective I don't know how much damage wakeboarding did two three event water skiing. It used to be the scapegoat but I'm not sure if that was correct.

[swc5150]

Wake boats bit into the family runabout market far more than the 3 event ski boat market. I'd really like to see some numbers that DD ski boat annual sales have really fallen off that far from the heyday. MC only sold a few hundred ski boats back in the 80's, and I'm assuming that's probably about the same as they do now? Always a niche market.

[VermontSkier]

I blame knee-boarding

 

[hammerski]

When you take a tour through a modern boat factory, all you see are big dollars. The overhead with labor is insane. I remember in 1993 when a loaded ski Nautique was $24900, thought I’d never sell another one! Like John said, there’s a used boat for every budget.

[swc5150]

Perhaps not a gutted boat so much as a smaller boat? My new to me '94 Prostar 190 arrived today, and I had forgotten how perfect the 90's boats were size-wise. Not too big...not too small. Fits easily in the garage, tows easy, and I can maneuver it by hand easily around my garage. This boat is all I ever really needed or asked for:)

[swc5150]

My time capsule:)

 

[UWSkier]

I'm with you @swc5150

 

I love my '01 Response. I'd like a '12-16 TXI maybe, but there's a lot to be said for the older ones, especially with ZBox and recent PP software. 9/10ths the boat of new ones for 1/5th the price is a hard value prop to beat for my budget and Midwestern monetary sensibilities... :)

 

[Horton]

gosh I want an old ProStar. I've been actually shopping

[BraceMaker]

@swc5150 have the same Gen boat and you nailed it on the size. With the platform off and a folding tongue they fit in normal garages. They also trailer almost invisibly behind normal trucks and don't require expensive lifts. First thing to do though is replace the helm to get rid of slop. Every single one I've driven has slop in the bushings behind the wheel.

 

 

[escmanaze]

@swc5150 Yup, right on point. With a little effort, my 97 SNOB fits right into my garage like a glove, and I tow it around with my Nissan Frontier. I would love to upgrade to a new prostar, but the cost isn't just the difference in boat costs - it ends up being also the difference in needing to build an extra detached garage...which I want to do regardless...but realistically, I can't upgrade to a prostar until that garage is built...so add on another $100k for that project. Yikes.

[MichaelWiebe]

@swc5150 That ProStar not only looks great, it actually looks brand new. Wow! Beautiful.

 

Agreed with the others.... we need a smaller version of the current ProStar.

 

We don't all need the Audi A8. An A3 or A4 will often do just fine. An entry level ProStar, to get more into MasterCraft.

 

For Malibu, that could be an Axis ski boat, built on the TXI hull prior the current version.

[RAWSki]

@MichaelWiebe and @escmanaze you can dare to dream....... But don't dare the boat makers to sacrifice production slots for something that hasn't sold several times in the past.

[MDB1056]

Yep...... 90’s boats rock. For us old guys they’re more than all we need. Plus they’re inexpensive, paid for, super easy to work on, and just run and run. Cost/benefit - no contest.

[BraceMaker]

@MichaelWiebe hence my idea for a throttle body fuelie upgrade by zero off. Pull it off for about 2k with out the speed control. Youd be above a Holley sniper but if it let you swap carb or TBI boat plug and play with a ZO wiring loom rock and roll.

[escmanaze]

@RAWSki I'm not daring anybody to do anything. I'm just simply stating what is going on in my life in relation to my current boat and my current dream boat.

 

But also, while we are here, I do have to say one thing: "hasn't sold" seems like an awfully oversimplified way of describing the recent history of this market.

 

And then to add on "several times"? Case study 1 is carbon pro. What is case study #2? Let alone "several times"?

 

[dvskier]

@escmanaze How about Ski Ray, Moomba Boomerang, MB, and many others. Like it or not the “big 3” manufacturers run the direct drive market.

 

[RAWSki]

Sadly the CP is the only recent history and currently approved towboat outside the "big3" suspects.

For basic boats the Malibu Sporters and MC Sport Stars come to mind that didn't sell all that well. Tige had the 20i for a "hot second"--- still trying to forget the Bu Tantrum......

 

[Broussard]

@escmanaze We went over this earlier in the thread...

 

Exhibit A - Centurion Carbon Pro

Exhibit B - MasterCraft SportStar / Skier 19 / ProStar 195

Exhibit C - Malibu Sportster

Exhibit D - Ski Nautique 176

 

Thank you for playing.

[Dacon62]

Exhibit E- In 2015 Malibu brought back the response hull with a walk-through open bow and a rear trunk that you could open from either in the boat or from the swim platform. It was the Response LXR. Did they even sell any of those? I would think everyone would have thought, “well if I’m spending that much money I may as well spend a little more and buy the TXi”.

 

[6balls]

Why buy a stripper boat when you can buy a fully optioned boat used one for the same price? I have a used Porsche in my garage, it’s amazing. Should I have bought a new Honda accord for the same price?

 

Oh yeah, the accord was even more money. $180,000 car in my garage for 40,000 with crazy performance and options. Four-wheel-drive, 550 hp, hatchback, four doors, power reclining heated cooled rear seats, low miles.

 

If you are so inclined buy a new big three, if you are not buy a slightly used big tree, if you were more bargain conscious buy one of the classic big three hulls. The build quality is there, sure you might need to replace some upholstery or something but well-maintained it will last forever, solid as a rock, look nice, ski nice.

 

There are gems out there just gotta keep an eye out.

 

 

[DW]

@6balls - 'real' Porsche's are air cooled (& have 2 doors) :D unfortunately those babies go for serious $$$

 

@escmanaze - also breaks down to 2 types of 'gutted' boats, big 3 versions and others which we could add the Gekko GTR20 and it's siblings to the list.

 

Another view and relevant to this forum demographic, the next owner. I would guess that somewhere between some to most end up going to non tourney addict skiers that probably also have a family. Those buyers would probably steer towards a plusher, more feature loaded option rather than a stripper version. So that would drive the initial buyer to react accordingly and put a % of the priority list to resale value and demand.

 

@BraceMaker - I don't exactly recall the specifics on the legal resolution between PP and ZO which divided the application of the systems sold by the boat mfg's to DBW and non DBW versions and included a from when date (yes i know PP has a DBW hence adding the date part). Don't quote me but that would have to be looked at whether an EFI retrofit on a boat would violate that edict.

[swc5150]

At this point in the market place, I don't think it matters as much anymore to have a larger, open bow DD ski boat for resale. I think most families are going for V drives. I could be 100% wrong, but that's my assumption. My only point is the size of the 90's boats was perfect. The new top boat models should follow suite B) (not make stripped entry models, I know that doesn't work)

[Broussard]

@Dacon62 I almost forgot about the 2017 Malibu Response TXI. The boat was available in a base configuration or the Malibu Open Edition.

 

The base boat had a circular ZeroOff display instead of a touchscreen, analog gauges, no combing pads, no side compartments, no ski racks, and plastic rear compartments doors instead of billet.

 

How many of you bought one? ;)

[MichaelWiebe]

@6balls Agreed on the used Porsche. I do similar...... the two door rear engine C4S version, at about half price of new at 3-4y old. CPO with low miles. I love the Panamera too though. Great car. Send a pic?

 

Did the same with my ProStar. Bought the 2014 to 2020 hull with low hours and 3y old. That was in 2017 though. Major savings vs list price.

[Bdecker]

@MichaelWiebe - the used Porsche market is red hot right now just like the boat market! I’m sure I’m not the only baller who also watches Bringatrailer.com. Sale prices are nuts, especially for something with the right number of pedals.

 

As for the boat conversation, I love our CarbonPro at the ski site, but would guess that very few were sold as retail boats vs promos. Perfect example that you can build the ultimate utilitarian machine for a slalom skier with a nice site and it still won’t sell. There are 2 nice ones on ski-it-again right now.

 

One of the big issues I see for the 3 event market beyond build slots is usability on public lakes. Go put your Prostar, Nautique, or Malibu LXI on a public lake where 5 surf boats are running at all times. It’ll be a bone jarring experience. The beautiful 3-mile long lake I grew up on added a surf camp a few years back. In the 90’s you’d maybe groan at an occasional 21’ Four Winns, but we would slalom and barefoot all week behind the old Supra Comp. Now it is multiple 24’ barges filled with ballast 7 days a week and it takes a vigilant hand at the wheel to keep everyone dry in my 197.

[Kreatonus]

I think because there are so many different sports now, people have stopped hearing about the less popular sports. I'm sure that water sports will always be popular. I used to surf for a long time, but because of moving to another city, I had to give up this hobby. But I was not upset and decided to try wake surfing. Many of my friends are interested in how I got started wake surfing as it is hard to start and takes a lot of effort and knowledge.

[LoopSki]

@Kreatonus serioisly!!! Lol. Wakesurfing difficulty level is one notch above tubing.

[unksskis]

@Horton this seems to be a solicitation to get clicks on their video

[RAWSki]

Our '14 CP 6L just hit a small milestone, averaging 100 hrs a season. Still feels great and I know of a couple club Carbon Pros that have twice the hours. It was eagerly welcomed during its time as a promo. Not bad for a value tug.

 

 

 

 

[Jody_Seal]

 

dash and console repair and rebuild.

carpet and sea deck next.

C&S skins already assembled on substrate.

new 6.0 and series 80 gear.

hull being polished

full set of photos soon.

 

[Andre]

@Jody_Seal What paint are you using?