2021 is my last year of USAWS

[bigtex2011]

your question kinda made me giggle. it's such a specific yet random hypothetical. petty theft and 5 year old DWI? I don't know, but I think it's funny.

 

[bigtex2011]

you are right. i'll be living in a van down by the river soon if this doesn't get finished by springtime. I just giggle and drink to fill a hole in my heart. I'm going to drive to houston tonight and see if i can get a hug. i'm down to 3 friends. help me... skidawg is that you near the bright light. :)

 

[teammalibu]

Love you man!

 

[ToddL]

- dude! I get it. Your role has been tough. You're frustrated. I was truly trying to understand how best to SEPARATE youth risks from NORMAL skiing events and sanctions. Go ahead, force this on every adult if that's what you think is best. Watch the mass exit and death of the sport with that type of attitude. The "blood" of that death will be on your hands, not mine. Now, with cooler heads... Seriously, these types of scenarios better be thought about so that we CAN separate the actual risks from those where there is NO actual risks. It also shows that something other than a 90-minute course with a test at the end should be a tool in the toolbox of SS for regular people to participate in regular activities where sufficient supervision is provided for youth. Damn, dude.

 

[Horton]

the time for sarcasm in this thread is long past. Unless you have something constructive please pipe down before I block you from the thread.

 

[ForrestGump]

I could have said one or the other. I thought I put "or", not "and". It was meant to be two seperate examples. Neither of which mean a hill of beans to being able to count to six and watch a gate.

 

[Horton]

For anyone who dislikes this thread - for everyone who wishes this thread would just go away - all you have to do is top posting. If you have already made your point a number of times and it seems that no one hears you then they are never going to hear you. I can not imagine what has not already been said.Also for each of you who messages me complaining about this thread - I do not want to hear it. I am more likely to ban you than read your rant.

 

[Dirt]

is 100% correct

 

[Not_The_Pug]

@dirt i agree

 

[Dirt]

we all agree

 

[skidawg]

@Horton is the best

 

[ForrestGump]

in @horton we trust

 

[RAWSki]

I have to take similar courses for companies that I work for so i don't find SS training unreasonable YES it is too long but it's winter and the course is easily accomplished by simply avoiding this thread for a single day. Do i wish there was a 30 minute course for 'participant only' atheletes Yes......However I would guess most ballers are more than participants they are judges.......Being "out" over 60 minutes of time is everyones own choice I chose to go ahead and do it to: Support my sport and protect skiers of all ages Support my ski club and its membersAnd to contunue to contribute to USAWS and especially AWSA

 

[ski6jones]

... and grow the sport.I think we will look back on this and think "What the H3!! were we thinking".I hope I'm wrong.

 

[skidawg]

is losing sleep because he’s not a bad ass ripper like

 

 

[Dirt]

how are you protecting anyone? That is the question that remans unanswered. We did not have a problem in this sport.How would a safesport video have helped?

 

[Dirt]

I really admire John Horton and aspire to be like him. I also love

!

 

[jcamp]

equating a fake rope situation to the devastating, life-altering harm suffered by those who have been sexually and/or physically abused is not funny and mocks victims. It is shameful and just illustrates even more why SafeSport training is important and needed.

 

[Horton]

for the last time.... this is mostly a legal problem for USAWS. Maybe SafeSport does some good and maybe it does not. What this is about is waterskiing being swept up in a larger national legal movement. It does not really matter if you disagree with it or not because that is where the county is. This thread is filled with complaining about how bad/stupid/unnecessary SS is. Everyone has heard it. We should all assume that the BOD is well aware of the points voiced here.If you want to change the direction of the sport then change your National Directors, EVPs and Regional Councils. If you love the sport and want to see change stop bitching in this thread and start looking for different leaders. Show me you care by running for a committee or getting behind a candidate. Otherwise you are just complaining.

 

[Dirt]

dont try to shame with that just one child bs. There was no problem in waterskiing.I was not mocking victims just the lack of leadership and stupid non-skiing requirements. What you are trying to do is silence people who disagree with you by name calling.

 

[Dirt]

I don’t want to change the leadership of AWSA. It is USAWS that is the problem.

 

[jcamp]

@dirt I didn't say anything about that. You, in a post that even Horton found offensive enough to erase, complained about a fake scenario where a boat driver ran over your rope in a tournament, your feelings were hurt and now you demanded everyone to take a 2-hour training video on not running over the rope. You equated getting your rope ran over with someone getting raped. Cute. I merely pointed out that that was a really sh!!tty thing to say and belittled people who have been abused. And seriously, how can you say we have never had a problem? You seriously think no one has been abused in this sport? How do you think you know of everything that happened in the sport? Most victims don't even report incidents because they know they will face people with attitudes like yours. It's just a stupid statement to make because you can't back it up. At all.

 

[Horton]

FYI - I did not edit

's post.

 

[Horton]

also

[Dirt]

@Horton

I took it down because it offended jcamp and that was not my intention. I value his opinion.

[ToddL]

In addition to participating in your regional AWSA winter meetings, please check your email if you are a current member. Nate has scheduled a Town Hall to provide the current status and accept feedback. the events is scheduled for Monday, January 17 at 8 p.m. ET and the link to join is provided in the email.

[ToddL]

Reminder: Tonight is the Town Hall by Nate.

[Horton]

link?

[MISkier]

Here is the info.

 

https://cl.s7.exct.net/?qs=35d5032e6a809009aa3cf3a087b52f67c3bccec9a8cfbffcb9360529524031d1f79a412123d38fc8f24764bcf70aae162d07004c160c29af

 

Or call in (audio only)

+1 872-215-2965,,35623851# United States, Chicago

Phone Conference ID: 356 238 51#

[buechsr]

A lot of names in this thread were on the meeting. Although it was impossible to decipher who had called in rather than join the webcast, it was notable that some of the most vocal critics in this thread were not (apparently) participating. That said, they could have called in.

 

For me, largest takeaway was that these decisions are not made because the board "wants" to, but because they "have" to, as fiduciaries of the finances and existence of the organization. I found it extremely hard to find fault in the decisions that were made. Of course, I've done SS training for some time and find it to be hardly an imposition.

[skibackwards]

It "sounded" like the board at their Jan. meeting will eliminate the background check for judges except for National judges. Time for me to renew and take the Safe Sport lesson. Thanks to the board for listening.

 

[Dirt]

Some of the most vocal critics have jobs and were working during the meeting

[buechsr]

It was 8-10pm on the east coast!

 

After months of griping and bickering in this thread, the reason why (many) didn't attend a virtual town hall with Nate, Bob, and insurance reps to explain the logic and need for their decisions was that people were working? I don't buy it.

[ToddL]

@buechsr - for those in California, the meeting was from 5-7pm. If one works typical hours of a full time professional exempt job, they don't conclude work until around 6pm or later and then may have to commute. Just FYI.

[ski6jones]

It's been obvious for a while they were compelled by law to do something. Fair enough. There is still plenty of room to find fault with what was done and the lack of communication that occurred while doing it.

 

From the meeting;

SS for all adult members - Not required by law. Decision made by USAWS.

BGC - Not required by law, USOPC is driving this. As noted sounds like this may be dropped for most.

 

Insurance was sited as a huge driver for some of the program USAWS put in place. Pretty sure complying with the letter of the law would have gotten exactly the same result.

 

Had there been more communication along the way we might currently be in a better place. I thank them for having the call. They should hold another after more is finalized at the BOD meeting end of Jan.

[Dirt]

@buechsr What is it you think people do for a living? I worked 3pm to 1am for almost 25 years.

[Horton]

@Dirt

[buechsr]

@ToddL and @Dirt

The recording is on USAWS's home page.

 

OK, so not everyone works 8-5 on the east (or west) coasts. Duly noted. Guess they should have had it from 1-3 am.

[ToddL]

@buechsr - cool!

[Horton]

I miss the call because I am just recovering from the Rona....

 

for those of you that were on the call .... do you feel like your concerns have been heard? do we think that the requirements are being readjusted to a more reasonable level?

[Broussard]

@Horton Yes and yes.

[JackQ]

I am agree with @Broussard. This was way overdue and highlights the shortcoming of AWSA/ BOD in communicating the issues, challenges and trade offs to membership. The typical rule change or debate I.E should max speed change for W4, etc does not need the interaction and communication that these issue required.

 

Still not sure the real trade off are fully appreciated by all. IE: if the board does not do enough to satisfy the Insurance Carriers and higher governing bodies, a lawsuit could bankrupt AWSA or lack of insurance put all liability on the LOCs; too onerous requirements such as background checks for all officials, etc, etc; and we lose too many officials and participates and there will be no skiing to protect from lawsuits. We need to do just enough to keep moving forward without killing the patient.

 

Although not achievable in the short term, better identification and tracking of all smaller subset of those who really should be required and need SS and/or Background checks would greatly reduce the burden and angst to the general membership.

[klindy]

@JackQ just to clarify, while AWSA (sport division) is certainly part of the communication effort, the call last night was 100% USAWSWS and not AWSA. I’m not trying to deflect anything but AWSA as a collective sport division was front and center with many of the same concerns in this thread.

 

Your comparison above to a W4 boat speed debate/change IS an AWSA issue and is dealt with at that level. The SS and BGC concerns and insurance decisions are at the membership/USAWSWS level. I’m not sure it highlighted the shortcomings at the AWSA level (although there may be plenty for other threads to discuss).

[JackQ]

@klindy I stand corrected. I still still believe that there is/was ample opportunity for communication from AWSA with the general membership to provide an overview of the issues, trade offs and options being discussed with USAWSWS. All too often, assumption and opinions are unconstrained without knowledge.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Horton @klindy concerns were clearly heard, but the response by USAWS was lackluster. I get it, on one hand USAWS is caught with both the legal SS mandates and legitimate insurance/risk concerns, but how they are handling it still leaves alot to be desired.

 

Yes, SS training is a PIA, but in reality not that overwhelming (except for MS).

 

On the other hand they (USAWS) still doesn't recognize the impact these "mandates" have on its members or seem to be concerned. USAWS seemed to be oblivious to what it actually takes to run a nationals and what the difference was between "Appointed", "Assigned", and "volunteer" officals. It really struck me that USAWS is so far disconnected from AWSA and its members.

 

A major point that was unfortunately missed, or misunderstood, is the "requirement" to provide SSN for a BG check. That is huge NFW for many members. Yes, the risk of identity theft may be small, but the consequence can be significant. Volunteer to help at an event and be put at risk for personal IRS/credit/monetary impact? That's a big deal.

 

Bottom line for me is that there is still no rational connection between BG checking "officials" and realistic minor safety. Efforts to date are just putting lipstick on a pig.

 

Oh, and "we're not done yet, more "requirements" to come".

[sunperch]

I was on the call and I did not learn much more that what I already suspected - fall in line or get lost. The first hour was dedicated to the insurance guys telling us what a great job they did getting us insurance in a difficult market. Did anyone else notice that Nate repeatedly said in the 2nd hour that we (membership) have known about the mandates since March so if any current member fails to complete the SS training are sorry out of luck. New members get a 30 day grace period but current members do not. I did not know about the SS requirement before

started this thread. No more showing up at a tournament and renewing membership in the parking lot, online registration will be blocked without the SS box being checked. It is also basically forcing LOCs to switch over to online registration as waivers have to be done online. I was underwhelmed with Nate's knowledge of how tournaments are run - no understanding of how many judges it takes to run a tournament, much less Nationals. The best part of the town hall was watching Lyman yawn over and over again. wander around and then start eating....don't think that he realized that his video was on for the whole meeting!

 

[klindy]

@sunperch this thread was started in early April last year. There was a USAWSWS special board meeting which was called in mid/late March where the decision was made. At one point those meeting minutes were posted on the website and they have since been removed (no idea why). So, yes it’s true the membership has technically known about the SS requirement for “all members” since March.

 

 

[Broussard]

@sunperch

New members get a 30 day grace period but current members do not. I did not know about the SS requirement before @The_MS started this thread. No more showing up at a tournament and renewing membership in the parking lot

The first sanctioned tournament for AWSA is over 60 days out :)

[sunperch]

@Broussard I completed my SS training months ago, I had started the training a year ago at the request (not mandate) of USA swimming. I am thinking of a ton of skiers that I know who rarely know the rule changes - it took them years to understand zero based scoring, changes in the kids divisions, etc...

@klindy Yes, but I got the information from this thread, NOT from USAWS.

[Broussard]

@sunperch An email was sent to the membership on April 6th of 2021 informing members that all USA-WS WS active members 18 years old and older would be required to complete the annual Safe Sport online training beginning in 2022.

 

The subject line of the email was "USA-WSWS SafeSport Update."