Rules for the PALM BEACH INVITATIONAL

[Horton]

Rules for the PALM BEACH INVITATIONAL

PB Invitational Tournament Rules.pdf

[Jody_Seal]

What? a non elite/open Real competition??? well that's unheard of !

Kudos's to the organizers !

[Horton]

@Jody_Seal I am conflicted about this. I do not think there is one best answer but I can think if number of formats that I would prefer. This is the format that I would be most likely to ski in but also the format that I think will create the least interest outside of the participants.  

I am also super hesitant to criticize the organizers because of the fact that they are putting on Nationals. 

[mike_mapple]

So this is a random tournament that they don't want the pros at? Just another way to make money for the site? Or any reason no "Pro" skiers to compete?

[AdamCord]

Once again, 35+ high level skiers are punished and required to quit the sport for several years and then come back if they want to ski competitive events. How is this good for anyone except the egos of the guys who want to win one of these events more easily?

[AdamCord]

I was talking to Caldwell and he actually had what I thought was a really elegant solution to this. Anyone who falls into that excluded category, in this case a 35+ skier who has skied a pro event in the last couple years, can ski but are at a 1 pass disadvantage.

That way in the head to head if the normal starting line length is 32off, then the person who falls into the excluded category has to start at 35off. Then the skiers compete head to head like normal, straight up the line. If the normal MM skier runs 3@39, then the "pro" has to run 3.25@41 or better to win the round, and so on.

That way it's handicapped without it getting complicated, anyone still has a chance to win the event, AND the spectators at nationals will get the chance to see some really good skiing (CP skiing at 34mph, anyone??). 

[Horton]

1. The club of the Palm Beaches can do whatever they want. It is their event.
2. In the confines of an independent event, I think these rules are fine. These are not the rules I would write but every event organizer has the right to design their own event.
3. At a Nationals I think there is an opportunity to do something much more interesting such as 
   1. Americas Cup or US Open - Water Ski Pro Tour Event
   2. an additional slalom event for the top 5 from each of the Jr divisions
   3. an additional slalom event for all the Nationals officials & workers
   4. no holds barred – everyone welcome over 35 year old throwdown

A pro event is really what I would wish for. 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Kudos for wpb club for stepping up and offering something outside the traditional formats. 
I do like the Adams idea of the 6 buoy adder for over 35 “pros”.

But  I’m holding out for adding 6 buoys for every 10 years over 35yo. Now that would be a fun event!  

[Mateo_Vargas]

How much is the entry fee?

[LLUSA]

On 4/7/2023 at 3:48 PM, Horton said:

1. The club of the Palm Beaches can do whatever they want. It is their event.
2. In the confines of an independent event, I think these rules are fine. These are not the rules I would write but every event organizer has the right to design their own event.
3. At a Nationals I think there is an opportunity to do something much more interesting such as 
   1. Americas Cup or US Open - Water Ski Pro Tour Event
   2. an additional slalom event for the top 5 from each of the Jr divisions
   3. an additional slalom event for all the Nationals officials & workers
   4. no holds barred – everyone welcome over 35 year old throwdown

A pro event is really what I would wish for. 

I couldn't agree with you more

[mike_mapple]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:46 PM, AdamCord said:

I was talking to Caldwell and he actually had what I thought was a really elegant solution to this. Anyone who falls into that excluded category, in this case a 35+ skier who has skied a pro event in the last couple years, can ski but are at a 1 pass disadvantage.

That way in the head to head if the normal starting line length is 32off, then the person who falls into the excluded category has to start at 35off. Then the skiers compete head to head like normal, straight up the line. If the normal MM skier runs 3@39, then the "pro" has to run 3.25@41 or better to win the round, and so on.

That way it's handicapped without it getting complicated, anyone still has a chance to win the event, AND the spectators at nationals will get the chance to see some really good skiing (CP skiing at 34mph, anyone??). 

This would be fun to watch. Or another, to allow say a Junior skiers to ski against a pro.

[cacman]

Has anyone received an invite yet?

[Horton]

@cacman My understanding is that invitations went out a month or so ago.

[dave2ball]

Seems a bit early giving the averages  can change and how many skier have made national plans

Edited April 26, 2023 by dave2ball

[kc]

1 hour ago, Horton said:

@cacman My understanding is that invitations went out a month or so ago.

My son received his invite April 3rd.

[Adam Caldwell]

Just a quick thought....

Maybe a concept we should be looking at a "team tournament" format.  A team would include say 9 skiers per region, made-up of three top skiers from each category -  Juniors, Masters, Pro  - from a given region.    Can run for Men and Women separately.

The winning team has the most total buoys.  Individual awards/placement could be done based off performance.  

With enough notice, it would be beneficial for the Pro/MM/Junior to support each other in training throughout the summer however possible to increase odds of winning the event.

Event format could go a number of different ways.   Would make for a more integrated and inclusive format interesting for a broader range of skiers.

I cant quite understand why, but there is definitely an ODD barrier that exists with MM/Open skiers, and there really doesn't need to be.  NOBODY in this sport is doing it for money or glory.  

Edited April 26, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[Blofeld]

Do we know who will be skiing & will there be a webcast?

[kc]

56 minutes ago, Blofeld said:

Do we know who will be skiing & will there be a webcast?

You can see the entry list on USAWS under Events, then “Check registration status.” Click on the magnifying glass. Like nationals, don’t know of any webcast. 

[dave2ball]

As far as I know there is no web cast

[unksskis]

Would think Nationals participation would be a pre-requisite for competing in the Invitational. 

[Horton]

@unksskis

I believe whoever designed this event likely had good intentions but the optics are bad. Some G5, W1, & W2 skiers are on the list but all men under 35 years of age are excluded? Last I looked there was a couple of Canadians on the list? Chris Rossi can ski but Adam Cord cannot? ( okay I understand that )

Bottom line is people are traveling from all over the country for Nationals and an almost random small group will get to  have two or three extra rounds in the middle of the week + under the lights + cash prize. The rest of us will get our one ride and go home.

I just don't think they thought it through.

[skierjp]

@Horton Men’s 3 starts at 35 years old and the speed drops to 34. I guess that was the thought process. Any division where the top speed is 34. For the men I think you had to have 2 at 39 to qualify, not sure about the women. Not sure who did the invitations. 

[liquid d]

I think it's a great idea, and I'm sure whoever hosts the next Nationals will have a great idea too!  It's all fun!   It's not random; their rules and regulations have been out since early spring.  All skiers are 34 mph skiers (Men and Women). There's only so many hours in a day to pull skiers.  It looks like they will have 90 pulls before they even start the head to head.   That's a long day.  Thanks to all the organizers, judges, and drivers  that are going to make it happen!

[BS74]

Where can one find the list of invited skiers for this  event? 

[BS74]

@kc  I don't see anything listed for this event under registration status. The only thing I see for friday is lake 1.   What am I missing, anyone?

[kc]

1 hour ago, BS74 said:

@kc  I don't see anything listed for this event under registration status. The only thing I see for friday is lake 1.   What am I missing, anyone?

Click on “Events” on the USAWS menu. You can then select either “Event Search or Register”, or “Check Registration Status”. Click on the magnifying glass to the right of tournament. You can then select either “Registration Status” or “Seeding” to see entered skiers by division. It’s not a running order. If you select the “Seeding” option though, it shows everyone’s scoring average.

[BS74]

@kc Found it!  I was looking at the Nationals registration and then saw the invitational  as a separate tournament listed below it. Thanks 

[kc]

20 minutes ago, BS74 said:

@kc Found it!  I was looking at the Nationals registration and then saw the invitational  as a separate tournament listed below it. Thanks 

You’re welcome!

[liquid d]

PBI RUNNING ORDER.pdf

[AdamCord]

Ok so what were the results? The internet does not appear to know this event took place...

[D3dude]

Rossi won the event over Montgomery in final H2H

[kc]

[liquid d]

What a blast!  The night skiing was great, with a lot of people enjoying the food and beverages.  It was neat to see some of the younger women giving it their all in their division for 1/2 bouys and hanging on to some hits! I know a few have probably never skied under the lights, when everything feels really "hair on fire" fast.   Good showing!

Rossi skied best throughout , with Darren pushing him to the end.  One of my favorite moments was after Seth got knocked out , and was wanting a beer from HIS cooler....the look on his face when we told him "Oh Sorry, we're out" was priceless!  ....we weren't out! haha...

 

Thanks WPB Ski Club!

[disland]

They had Nate run 41 and Regina run 39 during the day, but decided to put on a show with other skiers at night. 

No one thinks that makes sense

[richfoster]

I was really bummed I couldn’t make nationals this year. The night events are always fun. Whether it’s the pros, the big dawg finale, or something like this. With so many guys, it’s a shame they didn’t do 16 for the head-to-head. Also, a webcast would’ve been great, but I’m sure they had their reasons. I can’t believe the  Ballers that were there didn’t keep us informed and post a bracket with results. @Horton @liquid d………slackers. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by richfoster

[Broussard]

@richfoster the event almost ran till midnight... not sure more skiers is the answer.

[Horton]

I had some real issues with the 55k event but the West Palm club did such a good job with Nationals that I cannot in good conscience say anything negative about anything that happened last week. It was a very good Nationals. They should be thanked.

[unksskis]

@Horton yes thanks are in order.  However this special event ended up taking the practice lake last minute for the entirety of Friday when many people were planning to practice that day.  As neat as this event was, it shouldn’t impact Nationals in any manner. 

[Horton]

@unksskis 100% about what happened with the practice lake. I got lucky and got practice rides late Friday afternoon but anybody who bought a ticket and didn't get a practice ride because of scheduling conflicts should certainly get a refund and an apology.

I think the bottom line is the invitational event was an unforced error that created an unnecessarily bad situation for a handful of skiers and a super fun situation for the handful who were able to participate.

I will hold a grudge when I think people are doing something selfish or evil and forgive honest mistakes. I think all the negatives from the invitational can be defined as lack of foresight and unintentional errors. I was spitting nails angry most of Friday and then it sort of worked itself out for me personally.  When I zoom up to 40,000 ft and look at Nationals, so much was done so well that I just can't bring myself to hammer on the mistakes of the invitational. 

Nationals week as a whole was a absolute success & that in my mind overshadows everything else.

 

[darinmontgomery]

Thank you to the Ski Club of the Palm Beaches for hosting the 81st US Nationals, as well as, all the volunteers, officials, sponsors, families, and skiers who attended.  
 

Completing an event of this size in four days is unprecedented. Obviously, the weather presented a few challenges that caused some shuffling and late nights for some. 

Again, EVERYONE, who attended…

THANK YOU!!!

 

[darinmontgomery]

Regarding the PB Invitational…..

 

The final Running Order Head-to-Head brackets

[NikolG]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:14 PM, unksskis said:

@Horton yes thanks are in order.  However this special event ended up taking the practice lake last minute for the entirety of Friday when many people were planning to practice that day.  As neat as this event was, it shouldn’t impact Nationals in any manner. 

Right! Would love our refund for the practice ride ticket we couldn’t use and the time spent waiting there just to be told no practice. 

[Monzafred]

@NikolG

You are telling me that this other tournament was held instead of nationals practice? 

[rico]

@Monzafred correct, It was my first time at Okeeheelee and would have loved a ride. They ran round 1 of the invitational at the practice lake, and, the communication on when practice may be open was very blurry. 

Some people doing 3 event with kids lost a couple hundreds in practice tickets they could not redeem. 

The problem with tickets is also that you don't know when people will turn up or not. Online booking with time slots would be much better. 

[Roger]

On 8/14/2023 at 8:42 AM, Horton said:

@unksskis 100% about what happened with the practice lake. I got lucky and got practice rides late Friday afternoon but anybody who bought a ticket and didn't get a practice ride because of scheduling conflicts should certainly get a refund and an apology.

Holy crap, I didn't recognize you! Haven't seen you since the last Okeeheelee Nationals you attended (I think a pretty long time ago). Sorry we didn't get a chance to chat...

[Horton]

well I wasn't in a very good mood that day so maybe it's for the best 🙂