Chubb/Global Marine Drops Tournament Boat Insurance Coverage

[Kelvin]

I just received my Chubb/Global Marine towboat insurance renewal with one significant change.  Chubb is dropping their coverage rider that extends coverage to sanctioned events.  In their lingo, this is known as their H2O Ski Plus Program Endorsement.  Here's the exact language from their letter:  

"With this renewal, your policy will no longer contains the H20 Ski Plus Program Endorsement, which means that you no longer have coverage for your Insured vessel(s) while being used for USAW sanctioned events, including exhibitions and practice sessions, even if consideration or remuneration is received by you from USAW."

I would have missed this on my own, but my neighbor is an insurance guy and he actually reads this stuff.  Not exactly sure when they made the change.  My October policy still has coverage, but another policy that renewed in March did not.  Just wanted to give everyone a heads up.

[lpskier]

Interesting. This would cover (or more specifically NOT cover) a sanctioned practice. So if you are hoping to get site liability coverage for your practice seasons via USAWSWS sanctioned practice, you will lose your hull liability coverage via Chubb’s exclusion.  

[Drago]

Isn't Global Marine a usaws sponsor?

[Broussard]

@DragoNegative, Ski Safe is the insurance partner of USA-WSWS https://www.skisafe.com/?rf=3386

[dbutcher]

It sounds like you lose more than just hull coverage.  Liability coverage may be excluded too, and that is more worrisome than hull coverage to me.  The letter is not the policy however.  Actual policy language will control.

[Horton]

@Drago they sponsored some pro tournaments 10 years ago. guy that ran it was a skier.

[Mastercrafter]

In searching out boat insurance for a boat leased to a ski club last fall, Global / Chubb told me they they’re no longer insuring ski clubs this year… only “schools” that are run as a for-profit business. 
 

I’m not sure if this is fully or partially true, bad info, misunderstanding.. but it seems to line up with the above. It’s going to get harder and harder to do anything fun in this world.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Mastercrafter

[pcmcon729]

I am in the same situation with Chubb/Global. I also reached out to Ski-Safe for a quote. They quoted an amount that's significantly more than I was paying (not unlike everything else in this economy at the moment), but my biggest concern is, they didn't seem to have an understanding of what I need. I told them I needed to insure a 2012 MC Pro Star 197 20' that is used for some recreational boating and ski training in a slalom course for myself and 2 other skiers, and on occasion it's used for myself and ski partners at a ski club. It it never used for USAWS official practice or tournaments, private use only. I explained to them that I needed for USAWS named as insured to use it at the ski club, as required by the membership. I also shared with them that it's fully winterized and stored in a heated garage in the winter, and stored on a covered boat lift in the summer. They asked repeatedly if it's use is for a ski club. They also inquired about a drivers background check for my ski partners. Lastly, FYI, they don't like boat lifts, and deductable for lift failures are raised to $3000. I simply want an insurance company that has a basic understanding of a ski boat that it used for it's exact intended design. 

Thoughts?

[Mastercrafter]

2 hours ago, pcmcon729 said:

I am in the same situation with Chubb/Global. I also reached out to Ski-Safe for a quote. They quoted an amount that's significantly more than I was paying (not unlike everything else in this economy at the moment), but my biggest concern is, they didn't seem to have an understanding of what I need. I told them I needed to insure a 2012 MC Pro Star 197 20' that is used for some recreational boating and ski training in a slalom course for myself and 2 other skiers, and on occasion it's used for myself and ski partners at a ski club. It it never used for USAWS official practice or tournaments, private use only. I explained to them that I needed for USAWS named as insured to use it at the ski club, as required by the membership. I also shared with them that it's fully winterized and stored in a heated garage in the winter, and stored on a covered boat lift in the summer. They asked repeatedly if it's use is for a ski club. They also inquired about a drivers background check for my ski partners. Lastly, FYI, they don't like boat lifts, and deductable for lift failures are raised to $3000. I simply want an insurance company that has a basic understanding of a ski boat that it used for it's exact intended design. 

Thoughts?

I use Ski-Safe for boats, (about $475 annually for a 2015 Prostar) but they basically told me if my boat is used for a club or school, even as a temp loaner, I have zero coverage. They did, however, let me name AWSA on the policy so it can me used in a sanctioned event… so I’m told. 

I’m so ignorant with legal / insurance jargon none of it really makes sense to me. Like you, it would be nice if it was just straight-forward, and someone understood the sport and what we do.

re: lift failures and high deductible, they told me so many people overload their lifts and damage their boats they had to do something to encourage proper lift maintenance and application. Makes sense, but still stinks. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Mastercrafter

[skierjp]

The only real option for Promo Boats is Geico Marine, Boat US. It is the only one that has the correct wording for tournament use. This is where I’m directing my Promo Team. Chubb was around $500 last year. Geico will be under $1,200 for a million dollar policy. We knew this was coming at the beginning of the year. 

[Jody_Seal]

[pcmcon729]

@Jody_Seal bahahah  Truth!

[Mastercrafter]

25 minutes ago, skierjp said:

The only real option for Promo Boats is Geico Marine, Boat US. It is the only one that has the correct wording for tournament use. This is where I’m directing my Promo Team. Chubb was around $500 last year. Geico will be under $1,200 for a million dollar policy. We knew this was coming at the beginning of the year. 

Happen to know if Geico is a good fit for club boats as well, where they'd by used by multiple paying members but not for AWSA sanctioned practices or tournaments?

I'm kind of curious if AWSA is aware of all this, since Ski Safe is a sponsor of the organization, as well as AWSA's recommended insurance provider. What good is it, if it doesn't cover tournament use?

...I thought Safesport was supposed to fix all of this. 🙃

Edited April 11, 2023 by Mastercrafter

[VONMAN]

And once again the Lawyers are controlling your favorite Sport. And what are you going to do about it? Probably watch it die a slow death.

[buechsr]

30 minutes ago, VONMAN said:

And once again the Lawyers are controlling your favorite Sport. And what are you going to do about it? Probably watch it die a slow death.

 @VONMAN Lawyers "want" coverage, not the opposite.  This is an action of carrier underwriting.  Like most things that will work themselves out, market will see a void (opportunity) and fill it.

[Mastercrafter]

From SkiSafe-- so, it sounds like personal boats insured through SkiSafe and used for organized, sanctioned events are covered.

 

Mike,

Thank you for insuring your ski boats with Skisafe.

I have attached a copy of the Seafarer policy that outlines the coverage for the boat.

Section A page 5 paragraph 12 lists that : 12. CLUB ACTIVITIES: We will provide coverage while your Insured Property is engaged in organized and sanctioned club activities including practice sessions and tournaments. Participating in these activities will not be construed as commercial use even if you receive incidental remuneration or reimbursement.

Also on who is covered to operate page 3 paragraph 2 b under definitions: b. “Covered Person" means you, or any person or legal entity that operates the Boat with your permission. It does not include:

1. any paid captain or crew member; or

2. any person acting on behalf of or employed by an organization or legal entity such as a marina, repair facility, yacht club, sales agency, rental facility, or other similar organization

Mike I hope this is helpful and please contact us at 800 225 6560 with any questions.

Thomas Hall

SkiSafe – Underwriter

Edited April 11, 2023 by Mastercrafter

[Lovell]

I would recommend Boat US/GEICO.  Underwriters tend to rotate through the recreational marine insurance market as the market hardens and softens, but the Boat US Program has managed to be successful in spite of the up and downs of the market. Their premiums tend to be lower as well due to high underwriting standards and the fact that they write business directly with the consumer (no broker involved).

[dbutcher]

@Kelvin I wanted to send you a private message, but I cannot figure out how to do that on this revised website.  I too have Chubb boat insurance, but Global Marine is not mentioned anywhere on the policy.  My actual insurer is Ace American Insurance Company which is one of the many Chubb companies.  The agent is shown as Specialty Program Group LLC.  My policy has the H20 Ski Plus Program endorsement.  It is up for renewal 6-3-23.  I expect that, in May, I will get the same letter that you got notifying of the coverage reduction.  It is  likely that all Chub companies will take away this endorsement.  We are both in Texas.  I believe that the Texas Department of Insurance has a requirement that insurance companies must give policyholders at least 30 days notice before renewal when the carrier is reducing coverage (and of other things).  Removal of the H20 Ski Plus endorsement is clearly a reduction in coverage in my opinion.  So, did Chubb/Global give you 30 days notice?  It probably did, but it's worth looking into.   I don't know, but I assume that the penalty for not giving timely notice would be at a minimum to force the insurer to leave the H20 endorsement on the renewal policy.  

[Kelvin]

@dbutcher  I don't remember the specifics, but I'm pretty sure I got the letter and my renewal package at least a month before the renewal date.  I used Chubb and Global Marine generically.  My policies are with Ace and Global Marine is a DBA for Specialty Program Group.

[dbutcher]

Chubb's refusal to provide the H2O Ski Plus endorsement on renewal may not be as bad as I first thought or as bad as it first seemed.  Even absent the H2O Ski endorsement, Chubb's policy may still provide tournament coverage in many circumstances.  From Chubb's letter that Kelvin got, Chubb may not want to cover tournament boats, but that letter is not the insurance policy.  The only exclusion that I can find that potentially takes away coverage for a Chubb insured boat is the "commercial use" exclusion.  Commercial use is mentioned on the H2O Ski endorsement, but Chubb is removing that from its renewal policies.  No where in my Chubb policy is "commercial use" defined.  Chubb's policy has  2 1/2 pages of Definitions, but commercial use is NOT defined nor is it defined in any of the coverage sections of the policy (ie. liability section, property damage section etc.).  In the opening paragraph of the Definitions section, Chubb says that in this policy, we use words in their plain English meaning.  Words with special meanings are defined in the part of the policy where they are used.  Commercial use is not.

Since Chubb does not define commercial use, I looked at a Webster's dictionary to try to understand the plain English meaning of commercial use.  There are four descriptions of commercial in the dictionary I used.  In my opinion, use of a boat in a tournament is not commercial use, especially if one does not accept compensation for the use of the boat.  Even if compensation is accepted, no boat owner is making any money.  The compensation at the prescribed level in the AWSA towboat policy manual is reimbursement for wear and tear, depreciation etc.  There is no profit or profit motive.  Nobody is making a living pulling tournaments as one tries to do in commerce.  How is tournament use commercial use???  I don't think it is.  But this is only my opinion, and I claim no expertise.  Use your own judgment and seek the coverage you want/need.  Promo boat operators have a different situation than people like me.  I would allow my boat to be used in a tournament only if promo boats are unavailable.  

Again, no one should rely on this, but it is worth thinking about.

[Kelvin]

@dbutcher Not a risk I'm willing to take.

[lpskier]

I made a lot of money arguing about what the words “sudden and accidental” meant in Chubb policies. 
 

And I would tell my clients “ If you start with the basic understanding that insurance companies don’t make money by paying claims, everything they do makes sense.”

[skierjp]

[B_S]

For those with this insurance, I'm curious if your price was reduced along with the reduction in coverage?

[OldGuysRule]

I certainly appreciate the information about Chubb Insurance notice.   I double checked mine this morning.  It was renewed in September of 2022 and I carefully read through each page especially the "exclusions."  I did not see any notice about not covering sanctioned events.   I'll be looking for a new carrier when this September roles around.

 

[Kelvin]

@OldGuysRule My October renewal still had the coverage.  By February, it was gone.

[swbca]

Chub insures my Wife's driving.  Its hard to figure their actuaries' risk assessment process.  I feel safer in a boat at a tournament.