Letting go early

[MDB1056]

My sense is that one common issue for many of us that is not singled out is coming off the handle too early and the big effect it has on correct positioning of getting wide enough. In simplest terms what I hear from various coaches and sources is that at least up to 35 of you should stay on the handle until you're even with the buoy line. That's the look you want to get. Coming off the handle before you should stops your outbound trajectory at the point of release thus driving you only forward and at the buoy from the point of release. The result is being narrow and jammed at the ball, getting down course, etc.  We all tend to be so automatic in our release that this is something that is often overlooked as having an impact on our performance. Remember those passes where you were amazingly early and they seemed easy? I'm sure this wasn't the only factor that aligned on those passes but it is something that by itself can have a big impact.  I know I definitely need to keep this in mind. Keeping two hands on the handle as long as possible is also an important component to helping achieve good  body position (stack) . Not a cure, just a factor.        

[UWSkier]

I try to carry the handle out to the buoy line at the lengths I'm skiing also, but just holding on to the handle longer is only half my battle.  It's keeping the handle in close until I start my reach.  Life-long battle.

[LeonL]

Yeah, @UWSkier is right.  it's not just 2 hands on the handle, but keeping in in close also.

[lpskier]

I am working on skiing a narrower line than I am used to, consciously keeping my body inside the buoy line at 32 and 35 so that my ski turns closer to the buoy, so riding the handle out to the buoy line doesn’t work for me. The concept of riding the handle is critical to swing, and you have to ride it to a point, but that point is not necessarily the buoy line. 

[Horton]

@MDB1056 Two hands on the handle out to the ball line is a great goal at any line length but is likely unpractical. If trying to keep two hands on the handle to the ball line helps you stay connected longer and it is helping our skiing then maybe skip the rest of what I am about to say.

 @UWSkier and @LeonL are circling around the real issue. When you roll your ski off your pull/lean edge if your keep the handle pinned to your hip the tension of the rope will swing you around the arc. As the handle comes away from your hip you are decreasing the tension and giving up the power that is swinging you wide.

So it seems like you should keep the handle pinned forever. Few skiers can do it but it is possible to hold on with two hands too long. As you flow off the second wake the ski ( your feet) will flow away from the pylon. To some degree you may want to resist this also.  You do have to allow your hips and feet to move out so at some point the handle must separate from your hips.  The problem is that most skiers separate to early and too fast.  

If you manage to have two hands on the handle far up the arc but the handle had come off your hip early and fast then it all for nothing. 

[Horton]

@lpskier may I ask why you would want to be narrower? 

[6balls]

At 35 off I was still hands to buoy line and when it started to get taken away from me dole it out--when I was skiing my best.  Harder to do on my onside would tend to reach early fall into a deep turn.  Looked pretty cool and didn't hurt for the most part til shorter.  Bad habit.   Lost more passes d/t my supposed "onside" than "offside".  Onside was more reliable good if I were a little later as opposed to earlier so there was no time to just be early, stick my arm out and pose.  

[lpskier]

@horton Counter-intuitive, right? I spent the last couple off seasons trying to ski as wide as I could. 
 

Listen to the Matt Rini interview on “The Water Ski Podcast.” His big three are body alighnment, lean angle behind the boat and turn close to the buoy. I thought the last reference was to the back of the buoy. But no, he means close to the buoy at apex, whether -28 or -39. 
 

The issue is rhythm and the goal is to turn sooner with the pylon as far up course as possible. 
 

Here is a photo illustrating the point:

obviously, the two lines drawn as straight are greatly curved, but the photo makes the point:ski outside the buoy, body inside the buoy  

Weren’t you going to ski at Matt’s this spring? He’s much better live than filtered through me  

[Horton]

@lpskier I'm skiing with Matt this weekend.

what you said above is interesting but I'm pretty sure there's a misunderstanding 

 

[LeonL]

I've tried doing what some describe as "just get your ankles outside the buoy".  Doesn't work for me.

[ScottScott]

Just watch video of Dane Mechler.....

[Andre]

If i could choose which pro i want to ski like it would be Dane for sure!

[6balls]

@lpskier I prefer wide and early!

[lpskier]

@horton Misunderstandings are within my skill set. 

[Horton]

I went to bed last night thinking about this. 

If  the skier's ankles pass the same distance from the ball you run ANY path you can imagine and the boat will be the same distance down course when the skier passes the ball

The narrower the skier's path the more the skier is running parallel to the boat when passing the ball. The wider the skier's path ( before the ball) the more the ski MAY be already turned before the ball.

[lpskier]

@Horton Although the picture I shared would support your conclusion, why can’t you be “narrow” (maybe not the best word; “close to the buoy” may be better) and early? 
 

The point I made is that I am trying to keep my body inside the buoy line at earlier passes than 38. 38 and shorter you have no choice. I did not say I’m trying to ski a later line. My sense is that in fact I’m skiing an earlier line and I certainly get side to side with less struggle from the boat. 

[MDB1056]

I tend to oversimplify, but early and wide so I can turn early and backside the ball = best chance to repeat at the next, and next, etc.  

Yes…..an elusive fantasy most times

[OldboyII]

Since I torn rorator cuff I can not go one hand. I am modest 18m skier. Question: is there any tutorial or video lesson how to ski two hands on? Thanks!

[LeonL]

@OldboyII that would be a Lucky Lowe style of instruction. @Andre @ScottScott amen to that .  I love to watch Dane ski!

[liquid d]

@OldboyII  get a goode powervest to use while recovering.  It will take the load off the shoulder and allow you to ski.

[OldboyII]

21 hours ago, LeonL said:

 that would be a Lucky Lowe style of instruction

Thank you! Is there any video?

[fu_man]

@OldboyII You will have to search the nationals videos over the last two years.  There was a skier or two in one of the boys divisions that skied with the 2 hands-on approach and the announcer indicated he was a student of Lucky.  Sorry I can't be more specific as to who it was or which division.  Maybe someone else can chime in.  

[lpskier]

Look for Trey Snell

Edited April 29, 2023 by lpskier

[Horton]

@lpskier I skied with Matt today. There's a consensus that you may have misunderstood his coaching.

[OldboyII]

@lpskier Thank you 👍

Edited April 29, 2023 by OldboyII

[The_MS]

Vision and reaction to what you see in front of you. 

[LOTW]

@HortonCould you clarify?

[lpskier]

@Horton Explain? 

[Horton]

@lpskier You need to talk to Matt but I will give some version of what I think he is saying.

You want to do the stuff to be as wide as possible. ( make speed at the right place and ride the line to a wide point on the arc )

Then you want to start your turn early and lean your body to the inside ( perhaps your body inside the ball line)  as early as possible. This will mean the ski will be arcing back to the centerline when you pass the ball. You do not want to ski out to apex and then turn all at once.

There is a lot more nuance when Matt explains it but in short  - narrow is NEVER better. Ski wide AND arc back early by moving your mass to the inside early. 

[buoyboy1]

Matt used the analogy with me to think about skiing the course like running the bases.  Your body is always to the inside when touching the base but on your way there you need to get out wider than the base path in order to make that happen.

[S1Pitts]

I was going to post this on the old thread that I believe was called 'Connection and Swing," but it seems I could not find it.

I dont know what happened over the winter. Could have been the new training program, could have been the many times I listened to Spray Makers or watched FPM vids, could have been the hours spent reading every post on BOS, could have been the hours I spent sitting in the easy chair listening to the hockey games on TV with my eyes closed visulizing the perfect line. I have never felt the swing as strong nor skied as wide espesially right from the first ride of the year.

Thank you to all of you who take the time to share your knowledge and expertise so we may all have the time of our lives out on the water.

Cheers to you all.