an attempt to unify a number of actions at second wake

[Horton]

An idea that has impacted my skiing and my coaching this spring is something I am calling “Squeeze”.

Before we can talk about “squeeze”, you the skier must have an adequate or better stack at the first wake. If your hips are moving back and or your legs are compressing as you approach the first wake then you need to go work on that before you do anything else. The effort to get across the lake and make speed is about leg press not about shoulder lean. ( yes you have to lean but there should be more physical strength exerted in your legs than your arms & shoulders.)

Squeeze is an attempt to unify a number of actions that must happen from after centerline. We need to keep the rope connected to our hips, maintain our stack, keep our body pointed outbound, keep our feet under our hips, keep our shoulders from falling to the inside prematurely, and other stuff…

The act of squeeze is simply a whole-body resistance to all the forces applied. The ski must be allowed to flow off the lean edge but everything else is resisted for a least a moment. Triceps* are holding the handle still, legs are preventing hips from buckling, core is helping with hips and shoulders, whole body is resisting.

This concept maybe too reductionist for super short-line slalom theory but if your position degrades between the first wake and the ball line I think you will find this to be helpful.

*Not biceps.

[Ski2000]

@Horton I get the main concept of (squeeze), but I have been coached by Fred to not be stiff legged (soft knees). Does this fit in your concept, or am I missing the point and time of your concept. 

[Horton]

@Ski2000 Do you believe that Freddie is saying that your knees should be soft before centerline or after? If Freddie is saying that your knees should be soft after centerline then I do not disagree. What I have written above is an attempt to simplify a number of actions after edge change.

If Freddie is saying our knees should be soft before centerline we likely have an issue of terminology or a general misunderstanding. 

I believe in what I am saying but Freddie knows buckets more than I do. If in doubt listen to Freddie. 

[Horton]

I was texting with Freddie this morning. Yes, in fact he absolutely does preach and promote soft knees. I will concede that a lot of elite coaches agree with him. I think it's actually a lot more of a difference of terminology and methodology than it is a difference in mechanics. the end result is always to to create and maintain alignment.

so taking that out of the equation... if you struggle to maintain alignment and connection off the second wake, I believe that my squeeze concept is still perfectly valid. the bottom line is you have to find a mindset that will allow you to not deconstruct your position from centerline out.

[S1Pitts]

@Horton

Soft knees - Do you think this is their way of getting the ski to remain in contact with the water over the wakes?

Squeeze - Is it possibly slowing down the edge change somewhat in order to maintain all the components you are trying to keep unified? (even though it all happens rather quickly in real time)

[Horton]

@S1Pitts I don't want to speak too much to soft knees because it's not really how I think about things, but no, that is not the intention. Soft knees is a different mindset to keeping hips over feet.

As for edge change ... the speed of your edge change is the result of everything else you do. I have literally never watched a skier and thought "oh they need a faster or slower edge change". I would speculate that if you are concerned with your speed of edge change then there are other fundamental issues that need to be addressed.

 

[S1Pitts]

It seems there are so many ways to get the job done. I suppose the best way to go about it is try them all and see what works best for you.

I think I fall into the squeeze or freeze camp.

Edited May 13, 2023 by S1Pitts

[Horton]

@S1Pitts there are a lot of ways to think about it but the actual mechanics are not very flexible.

[6balls]

@horton agree--sometimes it is just saying it a different way that connects with a skier to achieve the desired mechanics--which as you state are pretty universal.  Even different pro coaches may say some things differently hoping their students (or themselves) get the desired result(s).

[JAS]

How I see it

-Boat is only source of power

-ski is source acceleration to skier

-Transmission of energy to ski passes thru rope and skier

-Energy loss occurs at skier interface, bending, flexing etc. The squeeze makes total sense  to minimize energy loss

-Acceleration of ski determined by force vectors, relative ski position, and contact with water  To the extent that water contact is improved by soft knees ,flex seems good

 

[Horton]

@JAS if your knees drive forward and that moves your center of mass forward, I agree. Most skiers attempt to bend their knees and then inadvertently move their hips back which moves their center of mass back, which makes their ski preposterously less efficient.

[Ski2000]

@Hortonthe soft knees point is to flex at the ankles, let the knees absorb the wakes but keep the shoulders, hips and ankles stacked. 
point your knees where you want to go is what I kept hearing. 

[Horton]

@Ski2000 

I confess I am never sure is my disagreement on this is a matter of perception or not. Fred is a master at controlling the loads in his feet and hands. He is able to keep his hips over his feet and drive his knees forward with ankle bend.  If your hips are over your feet then keep doing what you are doing.

Look at this video of Asher. There is a TON of pressure on his legs out of the ball. There is action in his knees at edge change - because there has to be. My point is he is using a lot of leg strength into the first wake.

 

 

 

 

View this post on Instagram

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A post shared by Will Asher (@willasher)

 

[ForrestGump]

This topic on soft knees is a lot like the one on bent knees from years ago.  It can go so wrong in so many ways due to the perception of the person being told this and where they are in the learning curve.  

Edited May 14, 2023 by ForrestGump

[ForrestGump]

My perception of Asher is that he is really driving the ski through centerline and he becomes really flowy soft with his knees from there, outwards to the ball line.  

[Ski2000]

I agree, the soft knees can go bad. If  the angle is to much, or you get deep on the turn and get crushed, all your speed is gone. 
I clearly don’t have this figured out and am working on keeping my stack, so @Hortonoriginal concept is much more applicable to me. I just thought Freddy’s coaching added an interesting nuance to this. 

[Horton]

@Ski2000 I was talking to Trent this morning and his bottom line is where are your hips in relation to  your feet.

Anyway the point of this thread is not about your legs. The point is about resisting leaning in, letting the handle out, and rotating your hips back to the pylon too soon after centerline.

[Dano]

One of the common things a see skiers do is to ski with their front knee locked out with zero bend, hips back and rear leg bent.  Telling that skier to bend their knee, combined with an explanation of why and how can only help them. 

[Horton]

@Dano but what happens if both knees have equal amount of bend?

again, everybody is focused on the leg thing. I was really trying to start a thread about maintaining position off the second wake which is a whole body and really not a leg action 

[ghutch]

@HortonI'm glad this is the topic you are trying to get out. I am working on this very thing and some explanation from those who know what they are talking about would be good. @AdamCord, @adamhcaldwell, @twhisper, others....

[BlueSki]

@Horton certainly wants to move away from soft knees, but for those that went down that rabbit trail, Freddy used that to help me with my offside turn, not the wake crossing or transition, and it helped me stay more balanced fore/aft, so better aligned for the crossing. 

[Horton]

@BlueSki Soft knees at the ball - no one disagrees with that.

[BlueSki]

@Horton, sure, but he was the first to use the phrase with me. Likely because the other highly respected coaches saw so much other junk in my skiing that needed to be fixed first. 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

7 hours ago, Horton said:

@BlueSki Soft knees at the ball - no one disagrees with that.

Uhh Lucky Lowe?

yeah that’s an outlier but hard to say “no one”

[Jody_Seal]

@HortonI gave you laugh because from time to time i get the opportunity to ski with that chick from SRB that has the WR... That has been her main coaching tip!!

I just call it hold on to your ass cause 450HP/500fpt is about to light it up!!

Edited May 16, 2023 by Jody_Seal