Can 43 be run?

[VONMAN]

Since Nate has run 41off more than the entire field. What's the incentive or the rush? The field has to catch up to his level. He doesn't have a lot of water training time because of that work thing. But it's not slowing him down. My 2 cents.

[MDB1056]

 

This has been a fun thread to read. 

In my opinion a hard reality check is needed on the physical limitations, no matter what equipment is developed. In any sport /even where the bar is continuously raised there comes a point where it cannot be an longer. Could you keep raising the height of the basketball rim, moving home run wall out further and further, field goals if moving the goal posts back further and further, hurdles if making them higher and higher, pole vault bar higher and higher, can ice skaters turn 5, 6, 7 rotations, etc, etc?. You get it.  Even at 41 we hear from anyone who's ever tackled it how insanely hard it is on the body. All who have past 41 also have also said that 43 is a completely different animal.  Reiterating that in the 10 years since the record was set it's not been moved, adds weight to the odds being against a full 6. 

While ski design is clearly left to those experts such as the Adams and others, I'm confident that even they will agree that equipment at some point cannot overcome the physical boundaries. Would some sort of new shoe result in NBA player being able to jump 10 inched higher, runners run faster, etc.? Equipment has progressed light years in the past 20 but it cannot extend athletic ability beyond limits, which I believe we have likely reached .        

My bet is it won't be run.   

But for all you Dennis Miller fans .......... of course that's just my opinion..... I could be wrong!  

 

 

[Adam Caldwell]

Austin Rodgers can jump on a Trick ski and get through 41 at slower speeds without any practice or having skied in a years time.  I think his best at 43 was getting over to 3 ball.  If that can happen on a trick ski "just messing around" , then I believe it can be a complete pass on a slalom.  

What needs to happen is a motivated skier, a motivated boat company, support from ZO and propeller manufacturer, and a couple years tuning the cruise and dialing in a ski setup.   There is a geometric synergy that needs to be optimized between all elements in the system.

Mapple was the closest to having that scenario and the ability to influence change on ALL fronts considered under the development of the Nautique 200.   

Its painfully obvious that with the "right" boat, right prop and ZO combination HUGE scores can happen. Just look at the Travers event last fall.  Get a boat that can deliver power appropriately, but also not overload the skier off the ball and lots of magic can happen at short-line.

Edited June 12, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[ScottScott]

So the record that still stands was set 10 years ago? Is that correct? Roughly?  Certainly a couple years more than 6 years when Smith broke it, but didn't....    If anyone came on here asking for advice and was skiing on a 10 year old ski, everyone would be telling them that they need a new ski. 10 years of ski development has gotten Smith no farther....  

What does that mean? I don't know.

 

[BraceMaker]

21 hours ago, VONMAN said:

Since Nate has run 41off more than the entire field. What's the incentive or the rush? The field has to catch up to his level. He doesn't have a lot of water training time because of that work thing. But it's not slowing him down. My 2 cents.

Well simply because if someone else comes and bests him by 1/2 then he has to up his record by 1.  No one will care if someone beats him by 1/2 and then he ties it.  A record isn't like an event win you have the incentive to put it up anytime anywhere because it raises the bar.  

It is possible that Nate simply doesn't have the steam 10 years later, maybe an injury maybe not, and maybe busy taking flying lessons or what not.  But that all indicates it will be harder for him to pop back on the scene to take down a future challenge.  Where as if you are in your prime the incentive to move the chains down the field is always there.

[swbca]

 

The physical abuse makes it hard for the best skiers to even practice 43 off.  The 41 off skiers take really bad hits even when they are doing everything right. Was watching Nate carrying speed through ball 2 and made it half way to the wake before the rope was tight.  It looked painful.  Not even Nate can do that forever without back injury.  This makes it hard to even practice 43 off every day because really bad hits are just part of it no matter how good your form.

I don't think 43 will be run any time soon.  Could take more ski development and taller skiers, though there may also be offsetting disadvantages in being taller. 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by swbca

[75Tique]

This question came up a while ago and my thinking then was that if the physics/mechanics allow 2.5 (or 3) then the physics/mechanics would allow 6.  But I have since reconsidered that opinion.  Certainly people like me, but even the best skiers in the world get a little bit later each ball down the course.  In other words, no one is making a turn every 41m, they are starting out well ahead of ball one and closing in on the balls as that lead is chipped away at. So maybe physics/mechanics limits have been met at 3.  Then again, maybe not, maybe there is still a little more physics/mechanics room to go and maybe one of the current into 43 guys will do it or maybe some newcomer will have that slightly better style, form, strength, stretch, whatever it takes to get another ball or 4.

Somebody made an interesting point above tho.  I have always been a believer in I dont need a better ski than my ability.  Other people always encourage  someone asking about skis to get the newest and best, no matter the cost, even if the person is a pretty much rookie skier.  Yet, as someone pointed out, Nate set the record on a ski now 10 years old.  And all of the supposed improvements since 2013 havent seemed to help him or anyone else break the record.  Hmmmmmmmm.

 

[aupatking]

On 6/10/2023 at 11:26 AM, Jordan said:

Nate won every event that he enterred last year and this season so far. I don't think a ski change is either required or is likely.

@Jordan I don’t think he’ll ever leave D3. It really wasn’t what I was saying at all. My point was more of a question I’ve had forever: if the best in the world was in no way tied to any ski company, and could try any ski they wanted, would that push that number higher? Maybe on a XXXX ski, could he get further down the course? (Insert any ski company you like, or all ski companies). Andy was the anomaly. He knew why the ski did what it did and could fully design and redesign his skis. It doesn’t “appear” that Nate does that. Maybe he has more input than I give him credit for. And like @adamhcaldwellsaid, Andy even had the boat designers following his lead

Edited June 13, 2023 by aupatking

[Horton]

The world record for pole vault is 20 ft 4 in. a 21 or even a 22 foot pole vault is possible. 

There is a vast difference between what is possible and what is likely to happen in foreseeable future.

Lately I've been telling my 9-year-old that it is possible for a tornado to pick up a great white shark out of the ocean and drop it on our house but it is extremely unlikely.

As all of you should know, the difficulty of one more ball seems to compound by a factor of X. 

[MDB1056]

Need to find those 10 ft tall aliens reported in someone's backyard in Los Angeles the other day after the green light in the sky............. 

 

 

[Drago]

4 hours ago, aupatking said:

@Jordan I don’t think he’ll ever leave D3. It really wasn’t what I was saying at all. My point was more of a question I’ve had forever: if the best in the world was in no way tied to any ski company, and could try any ski they wanted, would that push that number higher? Maybe on a XXXX ski, could he get further down the course? (Insert any ski company you like, or all ski companies). Andy was the anomaly. He knew why the ski did what it did and could fully design and redesign his skis. It doesn’t “appear” that Nate does that. Maybe he has more input than I give him credit for. And like @adamhcaldwellsaid, Andy even had the boat designers following his lead

That's what Freddie did, ended up on a d3

[aupatking]

@Dragoyes he did. It was pretty cool to see him test everything under the sun. I love my D3. I bought it from Freddie, actually

[Adam Caldwell]

There is so much to the formula that I don't know anyone fully realizes.  I don't think 43 will happen unless mores skiers really get outside the box and play with some stuff.  

At longer lines, we really benefit when a ski builds angle easily, and increases tangential speed into CL.  However for extreme short-line, the polar opposite is true.  The reason being is that speed management once your climbing above a 45deg position on the boat becomes extremely challenging.

There is an ideal path necessary for 41 and that path becomes even harder to understand at 43.   If the ski either builds too much speed, or decelerates too much, the passes cannot be run.   

Certainly there is a technique behind it all, but if there is one thing I know, technique will not overcome bad ski setup.  And then again, even a perfectly dialed ski matched with perfect technique will not overcome a poorly setup ZO/Engine/Prop/boat/Driver. 




 

[Garn]

On 6/9/2023 at 4:49 PM, ETskier said:

Whitney is close to Regina these days and may set a new record soon, but only behind her boat sponsor.  But, Regina will have to wait to be behind a Malibu to answer. 

I just don't believe this statement.  If Whitney or Regina, or any pro skier, male or female, is in a tournament, skiing in that "zone" where they are skiing to their ultimate ability, and they get in a position where they could possibly break the world record, that they just sandbag it because they aren't behind their sponsor's boat?  I call BS on that.  I just don't believe any pro skier would do that.  They may never be in that position again.  I just don't believe they would do that.

[Andre]

3 minutes ago, Garn said:

I just don't believe this statement.  If Whitney or Regina, or any pro skier, male or female, is in a tournament, skiing in that "zone" where they are skiing to their ultimate ability, and they get in a position where they could possibly break the world record, that they just sandbag it because they aren't behind their sponsor's boat?  I call BS on that.  I just don't believe any pro skier would do that.  They may never be in that position again.  I just don't believe they would do that.

Ask Jacintha...

[schafer]

@Garn did you see the last woman’s jump record? 

[jjackkrash]

The Jacinta record supports Garn's position.  Nothing was going to stop Jacinta.  She went back after the tourney was basically over and after she had won and asked for another round and set the record, but she paid a steep sponsor price.   But maybe others would think twice or sand bag, I don't know.  But not Jacinta.   

Edited June 13, 2023 by jjackkrash

[Horton]

Tow boat sponsorships aside .... Whitney is super focused on getting down 41 this year. Maybe she is focused every year but when I talked to her last month about it she was thermal nuclear serious. 

[LeonL]

Yeah, Jacinta comes to mind. That's a sad commentary on sponsorships.

[BraceMaker]

@schafer Nailed it.

Garn is saying no pro waterskier would sandbag to avoid pissing off their sponsor.

But Jacinta is literally the example of someone pissing off their sponsor and being promptly shown the door.  So is it a world where there are 3 tow boats but there's a really strong correlation between sponsorship and records with no underlying pressure.  

Or maybe is it that the pressure to not is high enough that skiers just usually aren't willing to piss off their sponsor?

[LeonL]

We've kinda strayed off topic, but since we have......someone tell us what about Jacinta's current status.  Jumping?

[BraceMaker]

1 minute ago, LeonL said:

We've kinda strayed off topic, but since we have......someone tell us what about Jacinta's current status.  Jumping?

[mike_mapple]

On 6/13/2023 at 6:20 AM, aupatking said:

@Jordan I don’t think he’ll ever leave D3. It really wasn’t what I was saying at all. My point was more of a question I’ve had forever: if the best in the world was in no way tied to any ski company, and could try any ski they wanted, would that push that number higher? Maybe on a XXXX ski, could he get further down the course? (Insert any ski company you like, or all ski companies). Andy was the anomaly. He knew why the ski did what it did and could fully design and redesign his skis. It doesn’t “appear” that Nate does that. Maybe he has more input than I give him credit for. And like @adamhcaldwellsaid, Andy even had the boat designers following his lead

most of the pros have tried the other skis..That is pretty common practice. Esp if they have anything to do with the input of new skis. I know multiple skiiers who came and tried our skis back in the day early morning and were gone before anyone showed up at the lake. There isnt really any big secret in skis, and most companies will get hands on the other companies to do Research and copy.

[BrennanKMN]

Not to be pedantic, but the question wasn't 'will 43 be run soon', it was 'can 43 be run'.

Over the next 100+ years of the sport, I bet some progress will be made... All things considered, 10 years is a pretty short time.

[The_MS]

I really dont think we will see any true females stand up around 5 or get to 6 in the next few years. If it does happen, it will be Reggie. 

[lpskier]

I believe Jacinta has a real job in Australia, I believe as a physical therapist. I’m told that having such a job limits her travel opportunities to North America and Europe because she doesn’t have the opportunity to take off unlimited amounts of time on the one hand, and it is very expensive and time consuming to come for a single tournament, as likely anyone that goes to Moomba and comes right home knows all too well.  Perhaps she believes that while she may still be unbeatable, she has nothing left to prove. 

[BraceMaker]

Waterski podcast I think its the second half of her interview, we don't have to guess at what she feels she laid it out.

[rockdog]

8 hours ago, LeonL said:

We've kinda strayed off topic, but since we have......someone tell us what about Jacinta's current status.  Jumping?

When you're the GOAT, haven't been beaten in 10 years and don't even look like getting beaten for another 10 years, a real job/career has to take priority over a sport where setting world records loses you sponsors.

[dnewton]

I have watched 43 been run from the boat at 34 mph.

[B_S]

@dnewton you just gonna drop that without a name?

[dnewton]

@B_S I’m not sure it’s my place to do that. 

[lpskier]

I’m pretty anyone that can run 43 will not mind his name being dropped. 

[mike_mapple]

Was the last name Michaels?

[rockdog]

13 hours ago, dnewton said:

@B_S I’m not sure it’s my place to do that. 

No mate.. you can’t spit out something like that and then suddenly be shy about it. FMD..

[MDB1056]

20 hours ago, dnewton said:

I have watched 43 been run from the boat at 34 mph.

@dnewton - seriously - the noise behind the scenes here is deafening.......... To put it extremely nicely , a lot of skepticism in your claim. And also why in the world anyone would make such a claim without following through with a name. 

 

[mike_mapple]

I also never saw my dad run it at 34, and someone who doesn't want to be named is running it? Seems like either a solid ski school swerve was done for them, or the DR is back.

[dnewton]

It's not my place to set that kind of expectation on someone. Someone asked a question and I answered. You can be upset all you want and that is okay. I should have kept this to myself, but with all the talk in this thread about it not being possible I at least wanted to put it out there that I have watched a skier go around 6 buoys at 43 off. 

I was skiing with some friends. The gentleman ran up the line through 41 at 36. We figured he would either be done or run it back. He asked for us to cut the rope and slow the boat down. We sat back and watched with zero expectation and 6 buoys later the 3 of us in the boat were asking each other what the hell just happened. 

The driver is a rated driver. The site is "L" capable. I am not saying the boat path would have passed. I have no freaking clue because my head was just going side to side with pure amazement. It was a spur of the moment thing that somehow happened. 

[mike_mapple]

13 minutes ago, dnewton said:

It's not my place to set that kind of expectation on someone. Someone asked a question and I answered. You can be upset all you want and that is okay. I should have kept this to myself, but with all the talk in this thread about it not being possible I at least wanted to put it out there that I have watched a skier go around 6 buoys at 43 off. 

I was skiing with some friends. The gentleman ran up the line through 41 at 36. We figured he would either be done or run it back. He asked for us to cut the rope and slow the boat down. We sat back and watched with zero expectation and 6 buoys later the 3 of us in the boat were asking each other what the hell just happened. 

The driver is a rated driver. The site is "L" capable. I am not saying the boat path would have passed. I have no freaking clue because my head was just going side to side with pure amazement. It was a spur of the moment thing that somehow happened. 

im going to call BS until a name is said. Ive pulled and skiied with the best in the world/ever and never once seem them past 4 ball even at lower speeds. Any of the top skiers who ski 36 do not think 34 is easier to run passes at shorter length as the timing is different. Until a video is produced or a name. I will stand firm on my BS call.

[ALPJr]

There was that video a few years back about Rodgers’ quest to run 43 at 43(yrs old). I don’t recall any updates on it though.

[The_MS]

If I ran 43, you could name drop me anywhere and I would be proud of it. 

[B_S]

1 hour ago, dnewton said:

It's not my place to set that kind of expectation on someone. Someone asked a question and I answered. You can be upset all you want and that is okay. I should have kept this to myself, but with all the talk in this thread about it not being possible I at least wanted to put it out there that I have watched a skier go around 6 buoys at 43 off. 

I was skiing with some friends. The gentleman ran up the line through 41 at 36. We figured he would either be done or run it back. He asked for us to cut the rope and slow the boat down. We sat back and watched with zero expectation and 6 buoys later the 3 of us in the boat were asking each other what the hell just happened. 

The driver is a rated driver. The site is "L" capable. I am not saying the boat path would have passed. I have no freaking clue because my head was just going side to side with pure amazement. It was a spur of the moment thing that somehow happened. 

 

[Drago]

5 hours ago, mike_mapple said:

it? Seems like either a solid ski school swerve was done for them, or the DR is back.

Nailed it @mike_mapple

i don't want to name names, but the initials of anyone who can run 43 at any speed are Andy Mapple or Nate Smith

[Drago]

6 hours ago, mike_mapple said:

it? Seems like either a solid ski school swerve was done for them, or the DR is back.

Nailed it @mike_mapple

i don't want to name names, but the initials of anyone who can run 43 at any speed are Andy Mapple or Nate Smith

[Drago]

Oh, I know, Greg Sund!! Probably twice in one weekend💪

[rockdog]

We may as well ask directly the only guy who this could be. @NateSmith43 was this you?

[75Tique]

Why are we talking about running it at 34?  (whether is actually happened or not)  I'm pretty sure we were talking about the likes of the current men champions running -43. They dont ski at 34.  I'm guessing no one who competes at 34 is going to run -43.  If we are talking about running it at 34, why not 32? Would that count?

 

[MDB1056]

@ALPJr the Jeff R video was just to try and get back to running 1or 2 at 43 again at age 43. Jeff never ran the entire pass

[Wish]

Ok ok …it was me.

[ScottScott]

Maybe it was Chipman, or his alter ego.

[LeonL]

34 36. I've heard from some pretty knowledgeable people that the optimum speed to run  really shoreline is 35.