Masterline Pro v Optimized

[Mastercrafter]

Another mainline thread, sorry. 
 

I like stiff ropes but train with either Optimized 2.0 or Comp Series S-Lines because I try to avoid springy mainline panic at tournaments. 
 

I always choose ML Pro mainline over Optimized at tournaments as it’s supposed to be stiffer. Our site has two Pro mainlines and one Optimized we use for ski league. All ropes are about a year old now, most people ski the black ropes (Pro). Lots of guys at least into -32, some into -39. They’re well-broken in by now. 
 

Firdt set, holy springy Pro rope. Slingshot through the gates, barley turn one, blown opener. I’m not blaming the rope, but it felt really stretchy and caught me off guard. Round 2, ran a couple passes, still felt soft but whatever. 

Talk on the dock was others felt the same about the black ropes, but someone said she used the Optimized after the Pro, and it felt way better.  Third round, I used the Optimized, felt great, way stiffer, got a tournament PB. Yay. 

So, could the Optimized ropes wear our faster and stiffen up while the Pros remain “lively” longer? Has anyone else ever felt the same? 
 

I know.. who cares.. just go ski.. but I had to ask. 
 

 

[mbabiash]

Use s lines. 
pay less and don’t think about it again. 

[Mastercrafter]

5 minutes ago, mbabiash said:

Use s lines. 
pay less and don’t think about it again. 

Yes, I agree. S Lines is my go-to but ML still more prevalent at tournaments, ski schools, etc.  

[dave2ball]

@Mastercrafter a year old rope used by a club will wear out quicker due to multiple rides. An average rope used in a tournament will have 180 or so rides on it in a weekend. So it would be just about wore out loosing its rebound and stretch. if you are using year old ropes from tournaments  the rope is dead done. It gets stiffer. When you ski with a new rope all is fresh. May have a couple of rides to get stretched out but after that is snood be good. So to answer you question a new rope will feel a bit spongy when first skied with.  No the optimized rope have the same life as all ML ropes.   

Edited June 24, 2023 by dave2ball

[Horton]

@twhisper says practice on soft rope so every rope feel stiff in the tournament.

[Mastercrafter]

What I’m trying to get at is the fact that both ropes are the same age (I opened them when new) and the “stiffer” Pro rope likely has more rides on it, but the Optimized felt considerably stiffer than the Pro.  

In the end it doesn’t really matter but it threw me and a couple others for a loop and seemed strange. 
 

@Horton I agree and usually use an Optimized or comparable S-lines, so it confused me when the Pro mainline felt super soft. 
 

Perhaps I’ll bust out the SLines S series for practice now. Really soft. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Mastercrafter

[skialex]

A years old club rope is done, no matter what rope it is.

a pro skier has told me that at tournaments the rope stiffens from skier to skier and that at the second round the rope is much more preferable than at the first.
Now, there is a difference to rope performance when new out of the box due to loop construction. Slide loop is more ready out of the box, standard loop needs to be tightened, loops and knots… so it usually takes a few sets to settle.

 

 

 

[PatM]

Same boat from round to round?

[markn]

Carry your own rope at all times.  You will know how old it is and how many rides are on it.  A club rope or ski school rope is not representative of a typical rope due to many factors such as sun exposure multiple rides.

[Horton]

yeah, club rope is kind of a terrible idea.

I can't tell you how often somebody throws me their rope in the boat and I look at it and see fray on the loops. unless you're young and invincible, that's terrible on your joints. I wish everybody would see ropes as a disposable item and change them often for their own health and the safety of the boat crew

[Mastercrafter]

They’re “club ropes” but only used for 5 tournaments per season, in the shed the rest of the time. These were all new Aug 2022. 
 

Any other time, yes, I use my own and keep them fresh. 

[dave2ball]

@Mastercrafter

those tournament ropes are dead after second tournament.  
 

[Mastercrafter]

2 hours ago, dave2ball said:

@Mastercrafter

those tournament ropes are dead after second tournament.  
 

Interesting. 

[dave2ball]

@Mastercrafter when do you think a rope is dead?  2 tournaments @ 90 rides per day 360 rides for 2 tournaments. Do you think the rope has any life left?

[Drago]

5 tournaments?? Brutal

[Horton]

@Mastercrafter how many skiers per tournament?

[Mastercrafter]

23 minutes ago, Horton said:

@Mastercrafter how many skiers per tournament?

It’s about 20 skiers. Weeknight tournament, usually two rounds for everyone with a few taking thirds. 
 

 

[dave2ball]

@Mastercrafter so 40 skiers x 5 tournaments. 200 rides. The ropes are dead after 200 tournament rides.  

[Mastercrafter]

23 minutes ago, dave2ball said:

@Mastercrafter so 40 skiers x 5 tournaments. 200 rides. The ropes are dead after 200 tournament rides.  

Makes sense and that seems right.  That’s a full seasons worth of rides for a lot of individuals. 
 

In the end it seems the Optimized was really dead.. The Pro mainlines felt way softer. 
 

I’ll keep picking the dead rope 🙃

[dave2ball]

@Mastercrafter good luck 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by dave2ball

[Horton]

I cannot discourage people from skiing with old ropes enough. It's hard on your shoulders and elbows. please please please think of ropes as a disposable item that must be replaced.

[Mastercrafter]

I get it. My ropes remain less than a season old but I’ll try a freshie out next time and see how it feels. Thankfully S Lines are a little easier to toss at $70 than $140 for ML Optimized. 

As for these tournament ropes, I’ll see what the plan is but not in my control.

I stand by my original question/observation that the Optimized got way stiffer in the same amount of time,  but it could have had more rides on it too, despite seemingly most choosing the Pro mainline.   

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Mastercrafter

[Horton]

@Mastercrafter it makes perfect sense that different formulations of poly would lose their stretch at different rates.

[Slalom Sue]

@Mastercrafter Hiya, last year you said;

“Perhaps I’ll bust out the SLines S series for practice now. Really soft.”

Did you? And if so, how did you find the S series? I’m tempted to get myself one but slightly worried that it will be too stretchy? Would love to hear how you found using it. (I’m hoping it may be easier on my joints but not negative on my performance). Thank you in advance.

[Horton]

@Slalom Sue I have a box of S-Lines stuff in my office at this moment. I will do an unboxing in a few days. I think there is an X-Series and a S-Series in there. I will do a back to back passes with both fresh ropes and see how different they are. 

Broad brush - unless you are deep into shoreline the differences between the all the versions of ropes is not significant. You will be fine with the S or X version of the S-Lines. Skiing with a fresh rope is important. 

[Slalom Sue]

@Horton that’s great to hear. Thank you for your swift response too. I’ll look out for your post. I think I’ll probably go for the S-series and save my joints. It’s a shame I can’t get one on the UK directly, it’s quite an expense from the USA; but then again, investing in my health and love for the sport is never a waste.
ps - I’ve ordered myself a Radar Senate Graphite following your previous advice on another thread.  I’m so excited and can’t wait for it to arrive. Thanks again for that.

[UWSkier]

5 hours ago, Horton said:

@Slalom Sue I have a box of S-Lines stuff in my office at this moment. I will do an unboxing in a few days. I think there is an X-Series and a S-Series in there. I will do a back to back passes with both fresh ropes and see how different they are. 

Broad brush - unless you are deep into shoreline the differences between the all the versions of ropes is not significant. You will be fine with the S or X version of the S-Lines. Skiing with a fresh rope is important. 

Would be interested to see how much difference you feel between them running something like 22 off vs 35.  I know you start shorter than that, but wondering how much difference you'd notice with more rope in play if you rode them back to back.  I think the rope stretch becomes more therapeutic as you get inside 35-38, but can be almost a detriment at longer lengths, especially for bigger skiers.  For me, starting at 22 off and weighing 250 lbs, the Optimized ropes feel like bungee cords, but the guys running into 39 love them.

[Horton]

@UWSkier what you say above would make sense in a sane world but the guys who who run the shortest line lengths are often the ones that are the pickiest about the exact right amount of stretch.

[ETskier]

Which S-line is like the Masterline pro?

[BlueSki]

My younger son tried my optimized line at 15 off/32 and 34 last year. He hated it, saying the boat was not there for him. I gave him a fresh stiffer line and all was well. I like the optimized, and for grins took a pass at 15 off for the first time in years. I could really feel the bungee effect, not fun. At shorter lengths it feels fine. @Horton you should ski some 15 off when you do your comparison. 

[Sedge]

@ETskier Go with the X Series for a comparable feel.

[liquid d]

JUST ONE MORE VARIABLE!  HAHA.....

Here's an idea...make them all super stiff, and create a 6 inch rubber piece that goes between the pylon and rope. You could have 2 different rubber pieces.   ML can just start producing those instead. 😉

[UWSkier]

1 hour ago, liquid d said:

JUST ONE MORE VARIABLE!  HAHA.....

Here's an idea...make them all super stiff, and create a 6 inch rubber piece that goes between the pylon and rope. You could have 2 different rubber pieces.   ML can just start producing those instead. 😉

I was literally thinking the same thing yesterday.  Let's all ski on spectra and have a damper at the pylon!  Could be safer for the boat crew too.

[Drago]

@liquid d Don't give them any ideas.🖐️

I can't imagine anyone at any length that weighs over 145 lbs likes the Optimized.

[Dano]

Xseries from S-Lines. Best rope I’ve ever owned.  Felt awesome right out of the box. It’s not stiff like a Syndicate rope,  but it’s not stretchy either.  High quality rope,  mine is a year old and it has  honestly held up very well.  I will be buying another.  Super happy with my sline handle too.  For me the feel of the xseries is so good that I just don’t think about  it being stiff or soft. It’s just right. I can go to a tournament grab the optimized or a syndicate rope  and still ski well.  I’m not left thinking wow that was different than my xseries. 

[liquid d]

The problem is no 2 ropes are the same after about 15 pulls.  When optimized first came out , they were like rubber bands...not anymore.  Those first few passes in a tournament are all about getting used to the boat, and just as important, the rope.

[Adam Caldwell]

We need  new standard.  Its dangerous to ski on overly soft ropes, as well as overly stiff ones.  
 

[Drago]

@Adam CaldwellThere was a standard that magically erased from the rule book when the Optimized came out. 🪃

[Golfguy]

IMO the tournament ropes should be used the day before in practice at least two or three sets. This should solve the spongy feel. To Adams point, at my age, I never have to worry about overly stiff ropes.

[BGrow76]

I would like to see the mainline on all ropes be made out of poly with some give then all shortening loops made from spectra, this would give the rope or more similar feel/give at 15' off and 41' off.

[skiep]

X series  is good 

[ghutch]

@Dano  and they're not nearly $200!!  I will buy nothing but S Lines from now on. Huge shout out to Scott!!! Thanks for getting in the game.

Edited May 8 by ghutch
adddition

[boscoman]

How do you go about prestretching an S Line?

[Mastercrafter]

3 hours ago, boscoman said:

How do you go about prestretching an S Line?

Ski it a set.  Mine felt fine after a couple passes. 

[ETskier]

I tie one end to something stationary like a tree,  the other on the golf cart hitch. In gear no gas, slowly stretch til it stops. Set in park and leave overnight.  

[boscoman]

thanks guys

[S1Pitts]

Last year I bought a S Lines Comp  to try vs ML Optimized. With 4 skiers in the boat we all agreed the Comp felt right. Ordered 5 Comp ropes that afternoon. Excellent value for the money.