Helmet for Waterskiing?

[vtjc]

I am currently recovering from a concussion; this wasn’t suffered waterskiing, but it is keeping me from skiing. I have a prior TBI and need to be careful. Previously I looked for a helmet to ski in but couldn’t find one large enough.

Is anybody using a helmet while course skiing? Does anybody know of an extra-large that will accommodate a 64+cm head circumference? 

[DW]

If I were in your shoes, I would consult a specialist to verify impact w/ helmet is lower for a water impact.  Jumpers use them so that could be a good source.  Given this sports access to top pro athletes, I would expect if you reach out they would be happy to help.

[LeonL]

I think Freddie K. uses a sky diving helmet.   I saw a guy slalom with a helmet that was rather small in head coverage.

[Mastercrafter]

I'm obviously not a doctor so this opinion isn't even worth $0.02,  but I've always had the thought that a helmet's increased spherical surface area would slow the head down faster, creating a greater impact of the brain into the skull. While water does feel like concrete hitting it at 50mph, it's not going to crack your skull open like concrete, dirt, ice. I wear a helmet for a LOT of things but they all involve suraces much harder than water. 

 

 

[Slalom.Steve]

I also had a concussion (from skiing) several years ago and looked into this.

There have been a couple other threads about using a helmet. There is a chance it actually puts you at greater risk for a concussion. Concussions happen when your brain moves within your skull and hits the inside of your skull, typically when both are moving fast and then the skull stops suddenly, with the brain continuing to move fast (for a millisecond) and then hitting the skull. So it's not really the "impact" itself that causes a concussion, but the rapid deceleration.

Now consider, if someone dives from a high dive with perfect form, they hit the water with very little surface area, breaking the surface tension, and maintaining their speed longer. No pain. If someone belly flops, they hit the water with a lot of surface area and stop very suddenly. Plenty of pain.

Hitting the water without a helmet vs with a helmet may be like hitting the water in a dive (no helmet) vs belly flopping (with helmet), due to the increased surface area of a helmet. The diving analogy is a more extreme difference certainly, but just to illustrate the point. Basically, unless you really hit the water, the helmet won't crush (which is what it does in order to reduce the rate of speed change when hitting something like concrete), and actually make your speed change more suddenly.

I suspect something like a soft rugby helmet mitigates this effect, as it's not as much surface area and relies just on soft cushioning rather than an actual "crush" of harder material like a bike helmet. BUT, I don't know where the line is on the benefit of padding vs the detriment of more surface area and thus more water resistance/more stopping.

As far as I understand it, there's been very little to no definitive scientific research around this though (ie testing water impacts with helmets, etc). Concussion research isn't gonna focus on the little niche of water skiing lol.

[03RLXi]

Suspect jumpers wear helmets for ramp and ski protection, not water impact protection 

[vtjc]

I agree with some debate about the effectiveness and potential harm from increased surface area(neck). I also understand the majority of helmets have been designed over the decades to prevent skull fracture vs reducing rotational or impact forces. The latter two are needed for concussion prevention. However, helmets seem ubiquitous in wakeboarding and jumping. Two years ago, I cut my cheek on my ski in a forward fall.   

At this point, I can't even find one that fits appropriately to try it out. I use Giro XXL helmets with MIPS for alpine skiing and cycling. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by vtjc

[Slalom.Steve]

Oh, there is also the chance that in a fall without any head impact but decent "body flailing," as you are falling/rolling into the water, if the helmet "catches" water (think of dragging a bucket open side into the water), it would yank your neck in an awkward way, again coming down to basically: your body is going fast as you start to fall, by the end it's stopped, so where/how did it go from fast to stopped? If the rest of your body is slowing down at a certain "normal" rate, and your head/neck slow down much faster due to the helmet bucketing in water, that could cause injury (not concussion but muscular, etc).

This risk may again be mitigated with a soft rugby helmet instead of a hardshell.

[Slalom.Steve]

You could look into the Q-Collar, a pretty new but seemingly effective device at reducing at least the effects of repeated sub-concussive impacts. It's FDA-approved and has some promising research results. Skiing is certainly less of a "repeated impact" sport as football, but if you want to take precautions, it's something that couldn't hurt. Not sure if it'd float if it falls off though lol.

[mike_mapple]

@vtjc I just replied to your email as well.

 

some of the jumpers do use a skydive helmet, but they also will fly off in a bad crash. Mostly for if you take an out the front into the ramp.

[JDskiNECA]

About 10 years ago I had an acoustic neuroma removal on my left 8 cranial nerve. The process required removing about a 2 inch portion of my skull. Then the piece of skull was put back with some clips. Because of my age I was told the bone would probably never grow back strong. Then there was 3+ years of hell so I did not want to have any further TBIs. So I also did the search for a helmet also. I looked at bike helmets, snow skiing helmets, and hockey helmets.

I needed something that had coverage behind my ears and down to the bottom of my ears like a open face motor cycle helmet. My first thought was a ice hockey helmet. While looking for helmets I found a Bell skateboarding helmet and I have been using it ever since. It is typical strya-foam inside about 1/2 inch thick with very thin padding in the head area and thicker padding in the cheeks and hard outer shell, much thicker than a bike helmet and similar to my Briko down hill race style helmet (not your regular snow skiing helmet seen on most people on the hill)  although not as well designed internally. The Briko may be a better option they are FIA approved race helmets and comfortable.

The Bell skate boarding helmet has done well with the water as it has very little padding so mold and drying has not been an issue. It is also not extremely comfortable as my Briko or my Aria are, but I don't have it on for long periods like I would motor cycling ridding or snow skiing.

As Slalom.Steve has stated the helmets could cause a bigger problem and I agree. I could see the edges catching and snapping ones neck. But I am still here to say this has not happened yet. I have stacked it pretty hard a few times with the helmet to the point the driver and spotter thought they were going to have to pull me out of the water and call a helicopter. Because of the helmet I just readjusted it and said hit it.

[swbca]

I agree that the larger spherical surface of a helmet would increase the risk of neck or concussion injury. 

[OldboyII]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:26 PM, Slalom.Steve said:

You could look into the Q-Collar,

If David Carradine knew about this device he would survive )

Saying seriously -  the idea of blood current limitation in such important area of supplying brain with oxygen and other important substances does not seem undisputable.

Edited August 19, 2023 by OldboyII

[Drago]

The Q-coller has been disputed repeatedly. One example that has sources: 

Science of Sport Podcast

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Drago

[Jetsetr]

He’s my take on helmets in general being a professional race car driver...

Helmets (other than for competition that require approval) for snow skiing, waterskiing, biking, boarding etc etc have no standard for quality or conformity...

I think they’re a good idea anytime and head impact is a possibility, but the lack of a rating standard REALLY bothers me.

For example my helmet is SFI, FIA and Snell rated. It must meet a standard and has gone thru a battery of testing to achieve those coveted ratings...they’re also really expensive.

As of now, anyone can make a helmet for the above mentioned sports (and many more) that’s doesn't meet any standard other than looking cool...and that gives the wearer a false sense of security.

As for the on topic of waterskiing I could see more harm than good in certain scenarios, but also a better level of protection in the “freak” incident, such as being bonked in the head by the ski after falling (been there done it).

Just my humble opinion...

 

[LeonL]

@Jetsetr yeah, and your Snell is only good for X number of years. 

[OldboyII]

On 9/3/2023 at 3:02 AM, Drago said:

The Q-coller has been disputed repeatedly. One example that has sources: 

Science of Sport Podcast

 

@Drago Thanks. I do not have privilege to spent time for listening. For me is enough to see their animation of mechanics how brain moves in the skull*. It is so low class and obsolete that makes all further discussions about this device ridiculous. 

*Brain does not move in the skull because there’s no gap between bone and brain tissue ))

Edited September 4, 2023 by OldboyII

[slalom frog]

We used some helmets from Gath for water related activities in the past.  They seem like a nice option for water skiing if you are looking for a helmet.  https://gathsports.com/