Updated 41 off list

[Horton]

#	Skier	Year	Brand Ski	Note
1	Jeff Rodgers	1997	Goode
2	Andy Mapple	1998	O'Brien
*	Ben Favret	2002	Goode	Not approved
3	Jamie Beauchesne	2003	Connelly
4	Chris Parrish	2005	O'Brien
5	Will Asher	2008	HO
6	Thomas Degasperi	2009	Goode	Run Off
7	Nate Smith	2010	D3
8	Jon Travers	2012	HO
9	Freddie Winter	2014	Goode
10	Corey Vaughn	2015	Mapple
11	Sacha Descuns	2016	Connelly
12	Robert Pigozzi	2018	Reflex
13	Brian Detrick	2021	Goode
14	Dane Mechler	2021	Goode	Run off at Worlds
15	Joel Poland	2023	Radar

[Horton]

Any edits or corrections?

[Cooper_Trelawney]

Very interesting.   This is such an elite group!  Only 15 individuals have achieved this feat in 26 years.

It does appear that each decade has a higher rate of skiers joining the ranks than the previous decades, which makes sense with improvements in ski design, training knowledge,  etc.

What would Rodgers and Mapple do on today's skis?  What would today's skiers achieve on 1990s skis? 🤔

[Horton]

it would be interesting to be able to exactly divide this list up by Perfect Pass versus ZO. Asher looks to be the first to get his first behind ZO. Somebody knows. Actually the data is out there. If somebody doesn't find it first I'll look it up.

[Drago]

@Horton Favret shouldn't be on the list

Isn't that an easy list, Asher would be the first zo?

[Horton]

@Drago I have heard the story about Ben's 41 more than once but forget the details. If it was a clearly bad boat path then he should not be on the list. As I recall there was some deal about an unintentional double opt-up. Ben thought he was at 39 but was at 41 and just ran it or something like that. IDK. If someone wants to fill in the blanks I will remove Ben from the list.

 

As for the ZO list - I think Asher was first and am looking but not 100% sure that CP or Jamie did not run behind ZO before Asher. Poking around the old IWWF list I found the below scores and dates.

Asher ran 1/2 at 43 on 8/3/08. Looks like this was is first 41. This at the British Open Nationals. It seems like it should have been ZO but IDK 

Jamie ran a 1.5 @ 43 on 07/08/07. I guess that would be PP? Also was in France 🙂

Someone knows more.... 

[Wish]

It’s funny how many names have been tossed about as the next skier to run 41. And then Joel Polan does it. Pretty sure no one saw that coming. If it was a horse race we all were betting on.. Joel woulda been the loooong shot. 

[rockdog]

@Wish my money was on Joel, just a different Joel. Maybe tomorrow..

[lpskier]

@Cooper_Trelawney What would Jeff Rodgers do on “today’s” skis? I think he’d run 41 at 55 mph. Oh wait… he did! At Little Mountain in 2013 (I think it was ‘13, Maybe ‘12). 

[teammalibu]

22 hours ago, Horton said:

#	Skier	Year	Brand Ski	Note
1	Jeff Rodgers	1997	Goode
2	Andy Mapple	1998	O'Brien
*	Ben Favret	2002	Goode	Not approved
3	Jamie Beauchesne	2003	Connelly
4	Chris Parrish	2005	O'Brien
5	Will Asher	2008	HO
6	Thomas Degasperi	2009	Goode	Run Off
7	Nate Smith	2010	D3
8	Jon Travers	2012	HO
9	Freddie Winter	2014	Goode
10	Corey Vaughn	2015	Mapple
11	Sacha Descuns	2016	Connelly
12	Robert Pigozzi	2018	Reflex
13	Brian Detrick	2021	Goode
14	Dane Mechler	2021	Goode	Run off at Worlds
15	Joel Poland	2023	Radar

It would be interesting to know the driver, boat and how many times each skier has run it after their first time!

[75Tique]

Before Joel, I thought there were only 13 and in conversations with others on line, I thought that was the consensus.  Now I see Joel is No. 15.  I dug back to find the difference, including the former post on this topic that resurfaced recently.  On that list, TGas run was apparently not considered an official 41 since it was a run off.  Is that no longer considered the case? Obviously he belongs on the list, I'm sure he's had many since 2009.  Does the 2009 event count or a later one?

[Alvin_Neff]

On 10/14/2023 at 12:01 PM, Horton said:

@Drago I have heard the story about Ben's 41 more than once but forget the details. If it was a clearly bad boat path then he should not be on the list. As I recall there was some deal about an unintentional double opt-up. Ben thought he was at 39 but was at 41 and just ran it or something like that. IDK. If someone wants to fill in the blanks I will remove Ben from the list.

 

As for the ZO list - I think Asher was first and am looking but not 100% sure that CP or Jamie did not run behind ZO before Asher. Poking around the old IWWF list I found the below scores and dates.

Asher ran 1/2 at 43 on 8/3/08. Looks like this was is first 41. This at the British Open Nationals. It seems like it should have been ZO but IDK 

Jamie ran a 1.5 @ 43 on 07/08/07. I guess that would be PP? Also was in France 🙂

Someone knows more.... 

@HortonI had conversations with Ben Favret and Chad Scott back in the day when this occurred.  They both confirmed to me that there was a boat path deviation away from the skier that nullified Ben’s record.  Maybe Ben will read this and correct me if I am missing anything else but this was why he was so upset that it was not approved.

[Horton]

@Alvin_Neff when you say away from the skier is that picking up slack as he went out the gates or disadvantaging him in the course?

it seems like  an unratified record. It deserves to stay on the list with the *

[Alvin_Neff]

15 minutes ago, Horton said:

@Alvin_Neff when you say away from the skier is that picking up slack as he went out the gates or disadvantaging him in the course?

it seems like  an unratified record. It deserves to stay on the list with the *

@Hortondefinitely not out the gates, I think it was at 4 ball where the boat was away from Ben making it even harder to complete the pass.

[lpskier]

@Horton @Alvin_Neff

So this makes no sense to me. If Ben’s score was for a National record, let’s say M3, which maybe it would have been, then his boat path would have been plotted. If the poohbahs that decide such things concluded that the boat path was out of tolerance, they would deny the record “as a record.” But the score would still stand. So based on what you guys have reported so far, if it was a record that was denied, it still would be a legit 10.25. Just like Jamie B’s in France. 
 

is there more to the story? 

[Horton]

@lpskier 

I honestly don't know. At this point Ben's 41 is part urban legend and part water ski lore.

[Alvin_Neff]

2 hours ago, lpskier said:

@Horton @Alvin_Neff

So this makes no sense to me. If Ben’s score was for a National record, let’s say M3, which maybe it would have been, then his boat path would have been plotted. If the poohbahs that decide such things concluded that the boat path was out of tolerance, they would deny the record “as a record.” But the score would still stand. So based on what you guys have reported so far, if it was a record that was denied, it still would be a legit 10.25. Just like Jamie B’s in France. 
 

is there more to the story? 

@lpskier Hi John! This was a tie for the World Record, not National Men 3 record.  He was skiing in the open division at 58K.  Don't know what the "L" and "R" rules were back then, but now it would only go down as 3@-41 in the master scorebook due to Surepath.  There must have been a score recorded into 9.75 that day on the books somewhere. The record was not denied till a few weeks later. @Horton I agree about the Urban Legend. 

 

[Horton]

Chad says...

"As for Bens 41 off, it was out of tolerance by 4cm if my memory serves me correctly at 2 ball behind the American Skier, 2 ball was the only buoy which was out by the old measurement, would have been interesting to see with sure path as I think a good driver can fool it some.  Ben had run 41 off about 8 times prior to that in practice."

 

[Horton]

on another note.... I rewatched Stephen Neveu finals ride. His 39 looked easier than my best opening passes. His 1 & 2 @ 41 were great. He can run it. I am sure of it.

[Taynton]

what about the ladies?

 

[Mastercrafter]

7 minutes ago, Taynton said:

what about the ladies?

 

... there are none. Regina's recent word record was 5@-41

[9400]

Jamie B also ran 41 in Charleston and I believe it was before the France deal. This would have been with PP. Wade Cox also had a 5.5 somewhere in there in Charleston.

[DW]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:54 PM, Horton said:

would have been interesting to see with sure path as I think a good driver can fool it some

There may or may not be a lot in that statement.  It would be really interesting to have more insight on the thinking of an expert driver that has understanding of how one would exploit the loopholes/limits/function within the system.