2023 Vapor Boa for free skiing and some course skiing?

[03RLXi]

I've currently got a 2019 Senate pro with a old 2000's Animal Superfeet binding. There's nothing wrong with the binding however I know it won't last forever so I'm thinking now might be the time to replace it.  I ski 18.25m (15' off) in public lake with a course and would love to always be in course, but reality is other boat wakes or wind make course time only about 20% of my ski time. Would the Vapor boot be too stiff for mixed water conditions? 

Here's the binding I'm considering and the type of Animal I'm currently using https://www.hyperride.co.nz/product/212468/radar-2023-vapor-boot-carbitex-boa-left 

 

[C5Quest]

Vapor boot would go great on the Senate.  It the perfect blend of soft top and hard shell bottom.  You won't be disappointed.  Much more control and feel than that rubber boot.  Open water or course skiing. 

[jjackkrash]

6 hours ago, 03RLXi said:

Would the Vapor boot be too stiff for mixed water conditions? 

Short answer, no, just do it.  The new Vapor binding is the bomb.  

[03RLXi]

So 2 votes for spend the money and upgrade 🙂  It'll be direct mounted, no release. I use a HO RTP on rear.

How's their sizing compare to more running shoes? No shops around here stock them so I can't try for fit.

[OldboyII]

Why not new Animal? Timeless classics.

 

[UWSkier]

Been on Vapor boots since 2016 after 15 years on Animals and no way could I go back.  My feet used to cramp in those things on longer sets.  The vapors are like comfy slippers.

They fit a tad small for the size, but once you heat mold the liners, I find they're dead on.  I wear size 14 shoes and before molding the toe area, my toes were scrunched up.  Now they're just right.

[jjackkrash]

Heat mold in socks with some sort of spacer in the toes.  Darren Wiley had a little rubber piece that fit over the toes to give you a just little wiggle room in the toes when molding.  Don't skip the heat molding step that's the big size variable and makes the fit perfect.  

[Jsh809]

I love my vapor boot. As for sizing, I wear a 10.5 in running shoes and went with 11 in the vapor. The 10 “fit” but was very tight in the toe box. I did the heat mold as well.

[03RLXi]

10 hours ago, OldboyII said:

Why not new Animal? Timeless classics.

 

Because new is typically better. Not always, and certainly not always in the first year of release, but after a few years of tweaks new products are almost always better than the past (erven if it's also being tweaked). Not that a Vapor boot will definitely make me ski better but maybe it will.  

[vtmecheng]

I like the new Vapor. I found it was really stiff for the first few sets but then broke in a bit. Just don’t be worried when you first try it. For me, the boot “encourages” good ankle flex in that I know instantly if I’m back. That took a bit for me to understand but I really like that now.

[chaloux]

I'm running last gen double Vapors and love them. I've always used double boots so it made sense when I started getting more serious about slalom. Once they get tired I'd be very happy to jump into new double Vapors (or perhaps venture out and try a RTP). 

[03RLXi]

I trust the comments on this forum so much I've just paid for a Vapor Boa 🙂 

It'll possibly be with me by this coming weekend, which just happens will be launch weekend for my New Zealand 23/24 season. Pumped to get started!!!!!

Included in the price was free delivery and the aluminium plate. Might change to the bling carbon plate next season.   

[aupatking]

As much as the price may drive away recreational and lower level skiers, it is MY OPINION that those skiers are typically the ones who make the most OTF falls, and possibly just falls in general. Therefore, those skiers MAY be the best suited for the best boots/boot systems. The biggest caveat to that is that they must understand the mechanism of the release. 

[jjackkrash]

I have the carbon plate, an RTP, and no separate release system and come right in the event of the occasional OTF fall.  That's my experience.  I think it has worked great so far (fingers crossed).  

[rawly]

Not to mention that they are as comfortable as a pair of Ugg boots. If you have a friend that in your opinion spends way too much time on his sets , talk him out of these boots 🤣

[Deanoski]

Buy the radar boot 

[03RLXi]

The binding arrived and the first try on I was really disappointed as it was quite uncomfortable. Pressure on top and side of foot. Removed the liner and discovered the tongue part on the uncomfortable side was sitting outside the liner. When repositioned with both sides of tongue inside the liner it was good. I can wiggle my toes a little and overall comfort felt good.

I won't be getting it heat molded as there is no Radar dealer around here. Likely a snow ski store could heat it for me but they've all just closed up for the year.

Thought the supplied paperwork could be better as there's nothing saying what the separate strap is for, or if the top bungy should be as a X or as a loop onto the top hooks. Needed to look at Radar website to confirm that. Not every customer has access to a good knowledgible store.  I'll have a top bungy quite loose since not using mechanical release.

Hoping to ski this weekend. First one for the 23/24 season 🙂      

 

[C5Quest]

You don’t need a Radar dealer.  You can find directions on line.  I thought they come with the boot but maybe not.   Worse case just call Radar direct or look up intuition liners.  I believe its only like 5 minutes or so at a time at 200F.  Toss in it the oven.  Easy.  When you take it out put like 2 pairs of socks on and then put the boot on.  You don’t have to go nuts with tightening.  Just want a good fit.    The bungie is pulled up then x’d before going around the hooks again.  You’ll figure it out.  The Velcro strap is an option if you think the cuff gets too loose.  I believe you’d only want to use it if using the reflex release system.  It tightens things up so the mechanism works properly.  You do NOT want to run the boot loose if using a release.  You will hyper extend too far forward and possibly not release at all…..your Achilles’ tendon will not be happy.  Ask me how I know,….I watched it happen.   If bolting to the plate run it how you want and fit for an OTF.   Probably goes without saying but you only heat the liner.  These aren’t ski boots so don’t put your hard shell in the oven…only liner.   That may sound dumb but again it happens .  Plenty of resource or people with knowledge so always ask it not sure.  No stupid question…..well most of the time ,  but I’m sure you’ll get stupid answers too lol.

enjoy that boot.  You’ll love it once fitted and broken in.

[switchbackr]

46 minutes ago, C5Quest said:

You don’t need a Radar dealer. 

Probably goes without saying but you only heat the liner.

Second this. I heat molded my Reflex liner at home. If you've already mounted the boot to the plate and ski, and it's 'comfy enough', just go ski it. 

[03RLXi]

@C5Quest it came with this card and the typical H&S you may die warning, warranty disclaimer card. Nothing else. 

The heat molding info seemed quite specific so I thought air blower machine was definitely required. Have looked online now and seems that there's two techniques to soften the liner. Microwave heated rice in a sock, or liner direct in oven. I will just ski it and do some research next week on molding.

    

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I just warmed up the liner with a hair dryer and it worked great. I think Horton even made a video a while back demonstrating this technique.

Found the video: 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by TallSkinnyGuy
added more info

[ALPJr]

Be careful with a blow dryer. I slightly over cooked one once and it got very stiff. Eddie Roberts suggested that I just ski the new ones into shape and he was right. After ~6 or so  sets they felt great, formed to my feet and ankles well. 

[jjackkrash]

I think having the plastic toe piece over the toes when molding is important for max fit comfort.   As a reminder.  

[YoKo]

If you just ski it without heat moulding it will still take the shape of your foot and it will feel more comfortable with every set.

I never bothered heat moulding mine. 

[skialex]

I put mine in the oven at 100celcius for about 6.30 min and wear 2 soaks on. It worked just fine…

[BraceMaker]

Recommend you heat the oven then turn it off, then put the liner in on a double layer cookie sheet.  That way the burner won't come on while the liner is cooking which may singe it.

[03RLXi]

Didn't get a chance to ski at weekend and it'll be another 2 weeks before I do.  Seems to be 4 schools of thought 

1. microwaved rice
2. hot air fan, hair dryer, in store machines
3. oven
4. Just wear it and over time it'll mold to foot

I've not decided which yet.

[C5Quest]

This is not rocket science...dont over think it.  you dont need bags of rice , etc.  150-200 in oven for no more than 5 minutes or just wear it and break it in.  After a bit it will be comfy.

[Ski2000]

@03RLXi heat mold with a hair dryer. Used an old one of my wife’s. Smells like burning plastic, but the boots feel like your favorite tennis shoe when done. 

[Killer]

I always cooked them in the oven except the most recent hardshell version.  With how well the boa works and how snug it is I didn't feel the need.   

[slow]

Filled mine with the hottest water from my boat shower i could stand and tightened them up. Stood in them for a few minutes and jumped in the cold North Idaho water. Got the tip from Eddie when I bought my first set on the RS1

[03RLXi]

Two weeks ago, I had my first ski session of the season but couldn't provide feedback on the Vapor binding since I was behind a 14ft Mercury 75hp four-stroke outboard boat with the driver and three children. During my first attempt to get up I let go after being dragged for about 100m. On my second attempt, I managed to get up after being dragged for about 75m. The water conditions were ‘challenging’ with many boat wakes, mostly less than knee high, but some wakes were mid-thigh high. Additionally, there was wind-blown chop everywhere at about mid-calf height. It wasn't an ideal day for testing a new binding!

The only noticeable difference that day with the Vapor binding compared to the Animal binding was that it’s stiffer rear made it slightly more difficult to tuck the ski into my butt for getting up. The boat needed all the help it could get! My main focus during skiing was just staying upright, enjoying it and making a few turns , so I didn't really pay much attention to the binding. It was obviously so much more comfortable than the water conditions!

Saturday was a much better day. The lake conditions were almost glass with just the perfect ripples. Unfortunately, I still didn't have a driver for my own boat, so I accepted an offer from the sole boat on the lake, this time a 14’ equipped with a 90hp 4-stroke Suzuki engine. It made a significant difference over the 75hp 2 weeks ago as I was able to get out of the water in just a few meters. Just getting back skiing after winter felt amazing and I thought of it as my first proper ski session of the season. Since there was no course set up yet, I spent my time cutting up the lake and doing 12 to 15 turns and fairly solid wake crossings before taking a 15-second rest while skiing straight behind the boat, then driver did a keyhole turn and repeat up the center of the lake. It was so much fun, especially watching how much the little boat leaned over more than 45 degrees when I pulled out and then again as I completed each turn and began work zone. Driver later said it was a ‘challenge’ 😊

As for the binding itself, once again, I didn't even think about it while skiing. It was very comfortable and did exactly what it was supposed to do. Heat molding doesn't seem necessary as it provided me with more comfort and appears to be more control than the Animal binding that I replaced. Whether this feeling of increased control is real or simply due to having new equipment remains to be seen; I'll need to regain some ski fitness and do a few more sets to find out.

Based on my limited use so far, I would recommend the Vapor Boa binding to fellow free skiers. It not just for perfect conditions course skiing. It handled thigh-high boat wakes without any issues on my first day, proving that it's not too stiff to handle challenging conditions. On my second day, it seemed to provide more control effortlessly. I haven't experienced any major falls yet. Because I’m not using mechanical release I intentionally kept the Boa relatively loose but found that it still offered more support than the Animal binding.