Purchasing first Hardshell release binding- Reflex Direct Contact?

[5_Ball_Jeff]

Looking to purchase my first hardshell release system over the off-season.  (Have been using Animals for years) I've looked at Reflex, FM, Edge/HO and MOB.  To me, Reflex seems to be the standard and updating/innovating their product line with more frequency than the others.  (I know that MOB has fans, but I might need something a little more dummy-proof and turnkey.)   So question is, is there a consensus yet on the DC (Direct Contact) line from Reflex?  The DC with u-sole looks interesting.  However, it seems like I read a few comments on other BOS threads that warned that there might be concerns with slippage or with the toe and heel components shifting?   If so, then my question is should I just go with the standard plate?   Lastly, it looks like Reflex has a new feature called the "Adjust DC" that appears to work exactly like a Mikro-just.  Could this be the remedy to keeping the setting secure and tight?  Lot's of questions, I know, but there seem to be plenty of options.  Thanks in advance.  

[Horton]

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[Nando]

I'm not completely sold on the Direct Connect but it sure is nice to see Reflex's ongoing innovations.

[DW]

I migrated from Animals to the Reflex plate version and am very satisfied, done prior to the DC roll out.  With the added maintenance to ensure the hardshell system is all good, I think going with the plate does reduce one variable you have to learn & adjust to.

[aupatking]

I have a few old Reflex plates that show considerable wear from where the boot “moves” on the plate. It’s likely wear due to vibration more than anything else but if it were me, I’d go with the plated version. I don’t want that kind of wear on my ski. I’ll dig a plate out tomorrow and post a pic

[jnan66]

Whats the point of putting a U-sole (= Plate) under the binding and then put it in a plateless binding????

Just buy the std plate version. It works great👍

[101driver]

@DW I am really interested in your experience and any thoughts you have. I am on animals tried various hard shells years ago but always went back to animals. Just ordered the Radar 2024 carbatex boot which won't be hear till April thought give that a go. 

I found a great coach last year and spent all season working on specific faults and correcting them. Coach on last visit was happy and told me to now start pushing back up the speeds. I feel like I am on a stronger foundation. I am going to go with Horton's bugee cord ski rope philosophy, so whilst getting used to that should I take the plunge and switch to reflex. I have been agonising over this for a long time; now before increasing speed seem the right time???

Any thoughts would be appreciated

[Deanoski]

get the standard blk boot with the standard plate.

 

I have never seen a high end skier using the new DC   and only a few  skiers on the white stiff boot.

 

get the proven blk boot. or better yet get a D-3  T factor and just ski!!

[Horton]

I am stoked that Reflex has adopted the Micro Adjust design. I have not seen one in person but if I was going to go with a Direct Connect system I would for sure what the Micro Adjust. 

I have watched this DC concept evolve. There have been aspects of each evolution that I have liked and disliked. They all work fine and I would be happy to ski in any of them.  From the images I have seen the Micro Adjust version is a step forward for a number of reasons. I could see it become the new standard. 

With any of the DC versions ( as well as most versions with a plate ) the user must ensure that the boot is compressed forward when the release is locked in place. If the release does not take some strength to engage then the distance between the boot and the release are wrong and a prerelease is likely. 

 

[Blofeld]

@101driver With a radar plate and boot all you need is the front hoop and a release. You can get all the parts at Bennett's.

[101driver]

@Blofeld Thank you for clarifying. I was hoping I could go that way, but was unsure. I have read a lot of threads on here but I am still unsure of what I need. I am unsure of what plate comes with the boot and if that is just for direct connection boot to ski (I don't mean reflex DC) or if I can use that plate with reflex parts, whether I need to buy a reflex plate or a different radar plate. I am UK11 which is USA 12. I am in the UK the supplier I normally use has no release mechanism's in stock, got to wait till April for the 2024 boot apparently supply to USA and Uk delayed? 

Any advice for definitive parts I need would be appreciated. I also would like to fit on trick ski? if yes what parts to get that set up for the same boot. I like the idea of the simple hoop not the DC system. Why are there two hoops on the parts list and would I need 2 hoops?

Sorry a lot of questions but if I am paying shipping from USA I would like to get it right.

[DW]

@101driver - Very happy so far with my transition.  The Reflex is more responsive laterally, provides me with much better feel and control.  I really noticed the improvement not as much on the A>B but when I did a B>A swap!  I felt like I was swimming in the Animal and lost a lot of the control.  I have a US 10 size foot and used small Animals so they were super tight on my feet.  My foot is very narrow.  My analysis - as you use the hard-shell you calibrate your movements to a more secure / responsive setup so when you go back to previous it is quite the change.  I also feel that the liner you pick is very important to get a proper fit in the boot.  Finding the perfect location (Hortons thread on that is excellent) along with learning the correct binding tension setting etc. does take some time to dial in.

As you read through some of the other threads on this site, it does become apparent there is still a ways to go to 'perfect' the hard-shell system and thankfully people are still introducing improvements.

Have fun on the hard shell journey. 

[101driver]

@DW thank you for the report, really interesting to me and I am sure others as well. Your observations on responsive laterally and secure / responsive set up along with swimming are all the highly relevant factors driving my interest in considering making the change. My Animal failed start of last season, the new one doesn't have the laces, I have to use a large because of a high instep just to get it on. Your comments resonate with my experience, I did adapt just as you explained, I have had to put a lot of extra effort into edge change and it took some getting used to the foot movement, not a lot but there. I feel that I want to be more securely connected to the ski but still know I will release. Every thing you have said is what I hoped would be the case. I appreciate you taking the time and trouble to post.

I will definitely give this a try. 

[101driver]

A picture of Hortons foot on another post answered my questions! Parts ordered. Going this way.

[chrislandy]

12 hours ago, 101driver said:

A picture of Hortons foot on another post answered my questions! Parts ordered. Going this way.

you mean these?

[thager]

Seriously, what animal has that foot?

[101driver]

@chrislandy erh well....... not the picture I was referring too........and "going this way" did not mean chopping two toes off each of my feet. BUT.....if you are sharing secret information .......then please feel free to divulge.........confidentially of course. we won't tell anyone.

[101driver]

To get back on original thread question so any one coming to the thread in the future looking for help has something useful. Above is what I am taking as the standard. Coming to the subject with no knowledge I found most of the threads interesting but also a bit confusing as the guys posting knew all about the subject and debated the subtle nuances of this hard shel versus that one, bolt directions, slight angles etc. I just wanted to know what to buy. So as an idiot, my idiots guide is either just buy the reflex package, boot plate everything. Or find the boot that fits you best and meets your needs and fit like Horton has. Reflex sell the plate hoop release as a kit. 

IF I HAVE THIS WRONG PLEASE JUMP IN AND CORRECT ME so the post is accurate for future viewers

[aupatking]

I meant to find an old plate sooner to show wear. This is why I question top sheet wear of a direct connect setup. The first one shows a bit of wear but you can really see just how much wear it really is when I hold it to the light. The wear is pretty deep by feel. Honestly, I wouldn’t warranty any ski that had this kind of wear, if I were a dealer (I am) or I were a factory (I’m not). It really may be a great setup, but that is definitely my concern with it. 
 

[RobHazelwood]

When I used to ride reflex, in would carve a huge indent after 1 or two seasons, especially in tricks. Wondering if they are offering a protective film or something to reduce this? 

[aupatking]

@RobHazelwood I’ve been wondering about that as well, especially with their release of the hard carbon flat bottom for their boots. It would have to be something “peel-away” and replaceable because I don’t see it lasting very long (X number of sets). Honestly, that may be a good option. Something thick enough to prevent the chafing but not so thick that it negates the positive attributes of a direct contact setup.

[dchristman]

[aupatking]

Well, there you go! I still wonder how long it lasts. If the boot can eat through a carbon sheet, a thin layer of adhesive seems pretty temporary

[DW]

For more durable protection perhaps aircraft leading edge tape:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/09-31615.php?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsburBhCIARIsAExmsu5H9nTYRjyctyt7q7GspC8B1VBqIpvE_8TD_KQ7xu6IfNHLDaPL3xsaAtMgEALw_wcB

There are several varieties, price per roll will reflect that.

https://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/weatherstrip/leading-edge-tape/3m-51-4.html?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsburBhCIARIsAExmsu6xomgqYWDSew8iYEavi6D4Q5RESJFYWOXOSxHwKZEesMD35ZEzvIUaAg5UEALw_wcB

[Horton]

I don't know about you guys but unless I make a point to protect the ski under my plates, it always looks like ass. If you want your ski to look like new even under the plate you can do this but most skiers do not. I always have pits from bits of sand and the edges of screws that have backed out a 1/4 turn. 

If I am borrowing a ski I need to return looking like new l throw down a layer duct tape on the bottom of the plate and/or the top of the ski. @DW's method is fancier and likely better but I do things more Stone Age.

[DW]

[skialex]

@Horton I probably having an OCD, but my skis always look good under the plates. I never use pads (for preventing fogginess), my countersunks are perfect and I use sand paper to break the edges of the plate’s perimeter and inside the slots.

I also like d3’s plastic film that protects the ski and then after couple of years you remove it and the ski still looks new.

even my Goodes’ surfaces look good after years of use… 

I only sell the skis I didn’t like and the ones I keep, I want them to look good on the shelf!

Im super OCD on this…😂

when someone is trying a ski that I’m selling, I too put duct tape to cover the plate screws and on the ski where the edges of the plate touching.

I don’t pay much attention at soft goods, the important things for my skiing are skis, bindings and ropes…

 

[Horton]

@skialex skiers be crazy

[aupatking]

I’m with @skialex. I wish I could be more “it’s just equipment” minded but nicks and scratches and anything like that drive me nuts. 

Thats honestly not even my concern here though. Did you see the light shining through my old plate? It has eaten through the Carbon fiber layer all the way to the fiberglass layer below (it’s white-ish so I’m assuming that it’s fiberglass). If that kind of wear was on a ski, I’d be seriously concerned about structural integrity. I don’t know if that is a reasonable concern but skis that are fully intact break. One with a one inch hole in the top sheet is just asking for a broken leg

one more thing: if you can’t fix it with duct tape, you have an electrical problem