2Valve

I'm going to apply some timing tape to the harmonic balancer and mark it for future reference. Sort of miss the degree marks on older cast iron Detroit V8's. :( thanks everyone, 2Valve

While troubleshooting this problem, I picked up a code scanner that will also allow me to set base timing. So my question is on the timing marks. Regular old V8 engines have a scale on the timing chain cover, showing 0,2,4,6,8 degrees, etc. On this motor, there's the standard index mark on the harmonic balancer, but only a single "notch" on the timing chain cover. Does that "notch" denote TDC or the Base timing mark, which I believe should be 10 deg. BTDC? I could pull all the plugs and have a helper rotate the engine (probably not by hand...::), while I peer in the hole, looking at the piston, but thought I'd ask. thanks, 2Valve

@BraceMaker My dad was big on teaching us kids all about motors. Pretty smart technician, the 'ol man was. But every once in awhile, he'd lose his temper and chuck some screwdriver, wrench or pliers at the door going into the house. That's why he covered it in a sheet of aluminum. I might have to do the same in my garage, as boats can produce the same outrage. lol

@DW I'll hook up my fuel pressure gauge and see what it reads, at speed. The voltmeter on the gauge cluster shows a constant 14vdc at speed, so I didn't think of hooking up the Fluke to the battery to check for fluctuations. I'll do that. thanks much. Oh and to further the nerd requirements, I USED to have a sweet Tektronix oscilloscope. lol

@Stevie Boy Good call, I should have remembered to check the engine ground. I'll dig around to find the cable, hopefully attached to the engine block somewhere. Although it does crank like its got a 24vdc battery.

@Andre Yeah, in my haste in thinking it was the pickup coil, I removed it but didn't have all my tools with me to disassemble the distributor, so I figured, wth, let's see if it runs with the new ICM.....:) I think I'll source a pickup coil as suggested. On a good note, I still got to ski yesterday morning and had 2 sets around the lake on pure glass. Problems go away when you're swervin' 2Valve

the saga gets better.... Pickup coil test: I expected to see between 500-1500 ohms but instead saw a varying resistance starting at 2.1meg ohms and running up to 2.6megohms. Then it would fall to about 1.7megohms. I have two Fluke meters and verified both gave me identical readings. The changing resistance was acting more like a charged up capacitor than anything else. The pickup coil resistance to ground was infinite as expected. I figured it was a bad pickup coil but decided to check the AC voltage on shaft rotation. That measured good and so I decided to install my brand new Ignition Control Module to see if it would start. And it did. Immediately. Idle was smooth and steady so I decided to go for a ride around the lake, at around 2500rpm, 25mph. The boat felt strong on plane but then started to hesitate and eventually wanted to die, with the RPM's falling. I backed off to idle and it didn't stall, but idle was sort of rough, with the RPM's rising and falling about 300 rpm. I could idle in gear and it would run, but raising RPM's created a near stall condition. Eventually, it would idle smooth again and everything appeared fine, until I tried to plane out again, and the same scenario would repeat the three times I tried it. I got back to my lift, and killed the battery switch for about 30 minutes, thinking it might be a stored error code that I could clear. I then started it again and went out on the lake and the same problem occurred. I should mention that I did remove the distributor but marked the location so I could get the timing close to where it was. If the timing changed slightly, would it cause this condition? Should I go through the base timing procedure to set the timing more accurately? Should I maybe pickup a MEFI code scanner to read a possible error code? Could it be the pickup coil after all, not showing a stable resistance? Thanks, 2Valve

@Dobrodan Yes, the ignition switch ohms out correctly. I obtained a MEFI Distributor Ignition Manual from a friend of mine. It has theory of operation and test point data that I can use to go through each sub-system, step by step. The toughest part is I'm in the middle of a move. Limited skiing and time for troubleshooting. :( thanks, 2Valve

I'll get back on it this weekend. thanks

I did some more testing last evening, until it got dark and I gave up. Ignition Control module measure 94.5 ohms on the + and C pins. This two conductor harness connects to the coil and the harness ohms out good. The ignition coil (pink wire) and Ignition Control Module (pin +) both have 12vdc with engine on FCC pressure is 30 psi with ignition on, and then falls to zero. When cranking the engine, it rises to 30psi again. I remember this being normal behavior. I totally forgot to write down the pickup coil resistance but I think it was 855 ohms. I should have checked the Ignition Coil switching signal (AC voltage), but ran out of time. I hooked up a timing light to cylinders 1, 2, cranked over the engine, with no strobe present. All connections are clean and tight. I'm down to checking the pickup coil's switching voltage .3 - 1.8vac, and it's resistance again. I hope to do that tomorrow. thanks everyone for your guidance........ 2Valve

@vtmecheng good advice. I thought of that and bench tested the fuel pump with a battery and a fuel hose on the output directed into a gas can. It sounds good and spray is strong.

@Andre Thanks very much. I'll be looking at the ICM this evening as the possible culprit. 2Valve

@BraceMaker I verified that the safety switch is good and working properly.

@Gar thanks, but I replaced the low pressure pump last spring. The FCC bowl is filling, so I assume its still good.

@Monkstr6100 Will do. I didn't have all my special tools with me but I'll be back out tomorrow night with my gauges. 30psi is what I expect for a TBI system, (what it was producing last fall)

@eyepeeler Agreed. I attempted to re-start just once and then we got towed. I DID remove the FCC fuel pump and verified that it was good with some bench testing.

@eleeski I swapped the two relays and it worked. Then I changed both for new and it didn't. I re-installed the original relays and it still didn't start. I'm looking at the Ignition Control Module now as a possible source.

@BraceMaker Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.

@Drago No sir. It just cranks with no hint of firing.

Quick update: After swapping the two relays, of which 3 functions are controlled, (fuel, ignition, starter), everything worked. My thought if it was a bad relay, is something would have failed, like the engine not cranking over. So I decided to buy new relays anyway and now it won't start again. My next course of action is to get a timing light and crank the engine to look for spark (timing light strobe) on any cylinder, verifying that the ignition is triggering. I seem to recall that this PCM, the injectors won't spray if the ignition isn't triggering.

I think I got it. Swapped the two relays and now it runs. The PCM manual says I should have three but I only gots two. I’m guessing one is ignition and one is fuel?? The both are Hella’s, 12193611. Thanks everyone fir your help. Nothing worse than being my turn to pull the club and boat is down.

I’m going to swap the relays around to see if that resolves it.

@S1Pitts Yes sir. Fuel pressure builds with key on then stops and resumes again while engine is cranking. Tether switch is good. Power to all gauges with key on. I haven’t checked spark. I’ll check the relays but the timing of just running out of fuel is too weird. The only ‘visual’ issue is no spray from the injectors while cranking the motor.

@oldjeep There’s a bleeder on the FCC. I bled that for a second while cranking and plenty of fuel exited.

@BraceMaker I have a timing light. What are you thinking?