ScarletArrow

As a supplemental question - how much weight do you find necessary?

I'm skiing now more often with a driver and no spotter so I need weight to balance the boat. What can you recommend for weight bags (and weight) for distributing weight? I've seen all kinds of solutions - dumbells, led weights with handles, tool bags filled with lead, etc., My favorite solution are 50lb compact bags with handles, but finding them seems elusive. Any recommendations?

@BlueSki as mentioned above I thought it brought the RPMs down best and felt like it was quieter. Not a scientific assessment just a feel. My 422 got damaged so I replaced with 654 as an experiment based on feedback from this board (still have 1868 as emergency backup). I pull some heavy and short line skiers and no one noticed a (negative) difference in performance.

I had the original 1868, then the 422, then settled on the 654.

My son goes 32/15, 34/15, 34/22, 36/22, 36/28.

"High Octane" is the only choice.

Ski wide

I know that boat. It's legit.

There should be a day of jubilee every year where Horton “unbans” someone. A little controversy is good for clicks and forgiveness is good for the soul.

Same hull. In my experience at those same speeds and line lengths there was no difference between old and new versions of 200. Either something was wrong with first boat or your ski position was better. As an aside, I have heard people complain that the hole shot on new 200 is not as good despite better engine. It was never my experience but multiple skiers voiced an independent opinion. I think something was wrong with boat in question.

what is the story telling to be told? The story to be told is quality time vs. party time. Story 1 - Time with Dad You will bond with your kids during open water ski runs. Several years ago when my kids were still in elementary school, our schedules worked out one spring where we went out to the lake to ski at dawn. This meant packing breakfast and school lunches and laying out school clothes the night before. We woke at 5a, drove an hour and skied for 90 minutes. We showered at the lake at dropped the kids off about 30 minutes after school started (with wet hair). My kids felt like they were coolest cats in the building. "Why are you late? Why is your hair wet?" Answer, "I went skiing with my dad." Now my kids reflect back on that experience they say, "Remember when we always went skiing before school?" I have to remind them, we only went like 5 or 6 times for one spring - but yeah, it was so good. Story 2 - Ski Buddies Your wife never asks what time you're coming home when you go skiing with your buddies. Before I ever skied in the slalom course (or even knew what it was), my ski buddy had a Ski Supreme. We would trailer it every Wednesday morning for 2 years at dawn to the local reservoir about 45 min away and free ski until we were too tired to ski anymore. We would hustle back and try to get to work "on time" (about 10a). Story 3 - Diversification You can do more behind a ski boat than a surf boat. Before any of my kids ever got on skis they got on kneeboards - easier, less scary, more fun. Tricks (360 spins) and jumps and even the slalom course was their game. My middle son even took a kneeboard set at Seth Stisher's. As teenagers they break up their slalom sets with kneeboard runs and its typically the first thing we have their friends do when they come to the lake for the first time. Double kneeboards are still a favorite. Heck, at 47 I went double kneeboarding on vacation and it was hilariously fun. It's an easy way to teach your kids how to drive and pick up a "skier" after a fall. Conclusion What you can do with and behind a ski boat is so much more than a surf boat. MC has a really great tower design. Instead of featuring really cool artistic drone footage of slalom spray, why not feature the tower? You can beginner ski, combo ski, kneeboard, barefoot and tube from the tower. The only thing you can't do is take a slalom set.

The sell all they can make because there is sufficient market demand. My hypothesis based upon my recent experience is that you can have just as much fun (if not more) behind a ski boat as you can a surf boat. So why the extreme disparity in demand? Possible answers... Boat manufacturers have curated that demand to promote higher profit margin products. We as skiers haven't done a good job of telling our own story. Skiers have retreated to the private lake and single purpose (chasing buoys) activity, so we don't have a good story to tell. I would like to see more demand (and more supply) for ski boats. My proposed solution is better story telling and marketing from the skiers themselves. If the question is, "How many ski boats are going to be built this year?", and the answer is "The same as last year." my heart sinks. At best that means getting on an 18-month waiting list, work all your connections, hope and pray that your order comes through.

Here are the MC promotional videos. vs. Notice the differences... Even though you can ski in open water and surf in tournaments - the skiing video ONLY shows "tournament style" and the surf boat ONLY shows "open water". Even though people of all ages, size and shapes can ski - the skiing video ONLY shows a professional while the surf boat shows how the entire family can participate. The skiing video ONLY shows what less than 1% of all skiers can do, while the surf video shows what ANYONE can do. Even though we can see Krista's smile, to the uninitiated the ski boat = "serious" and the surf boat = "fun". Do you think the "world's flattest wakes" would appeal to little kids and beginner skiers? Can you swim off the platform of a ski boat? Can you do something other than slalom behind a ski boat? Can you put a sound system in a ski boat? On my recent vacation to one of the big lakes in the TVA, my ski buddy and I had 4 kids join us every morning at 7:30a on our ski boat. We would slalom ski, combo ski, ski doubles, knee board, swim, and barefoot (off a boom). This wasn't us dragging them out of bed - one morning the daughter didn't get up and she cried when she found out she missed the ski run. One morning my ski buddy and I discussed (which is where my comments came from in the other thread) how we (and the kids) enjoyed the morning ski run a little more than the afternoon surf run. Why? The ski run had less people and was thus more intimate - creating quality time with dad. Remember what Chris Parrish said? The surf run had so many people on it, that kids eventually got bored waiting for their turn. We had to break things up by bringing a second boat, limiting attempts, stopping for swim time, etc. The ski run was faster and it was easy to give people multiple turns. The kids like driving the ski boat WAY more than the surf boat. Outside of surfing and maybe tubing, what else can you do behind a surf boat? Wakeboarding? No one wants to try that anymore - re: the wakes are huge and intimidating to beginners, and the falls can be nasty. It could be argued that the ski boat is actually the more versatile and family friendly boat - just not as profitable to the boat companies. TL;DR Ski boat marketing should show the benefits to the entire family and include an open water environment. It should promote casual fun as much as serious performance. It should promote beginner as well as elite levels. Fire away! *Disclaimer - I'm not criticizing any individual or boat company here. I'm just voicing an opinion based on my recent experience.

It would seem obvious that a surf boat on a man made 3-event lake is not appropriate. Lake communities should put appropriate regulations to curb excessive wakes that abuse shorelines and docks. I don't think it's a controversial take to say that surfing is fun, it's here to stay and it's better marketed than 3-event skiing. Perhaps gray areas include: What's an appropriate size lake? I'm on a lake that is 113 acres. The shoreline with the best water is where all the houses and slalom course is built. Is there a difference between surf and wakeboard boats? Our lake has a Sport 200 that surfs and another new Nautique (not sure model) that showed up last night to wakeboard. How do you educate the general boating population? To most, a wake is just a wake and bigger is better. There is no discretion or thought for suitability when purchasing a boat. How do you align the interests of boating manufacturers with lake communities and different towed sports? 10 - 15 years ago the same conversation was had regarding the destructive quality of wakeboard boats. I think there is a way for us to live together on the water. How can we increase the appeal of ski boats? If we made skiing more fun and attractive this problem would be half the size it is now (but that is another topic).

Slightly off topic as this thread is mostly about the negate effects of wakes from surf boats… I learned how to surf last week on vacation behind a g23. We can hate on it all we want, but it is fun. After having a 200 and g23 all week on vacation and using both extensively, my ski buddy and I were discussing the different experiences in each. Each had positives and negatives. Interestingly, we had just as many kids willing to get up at 7a to go out on the 200 as the 1p surf run. My conclusion is that we are marketing skiing all wrong.

How many are they going to make?

Thanks guys. Ordered Large from @perfski and arrived today.

Size 11 foot seems to be on the edge of the sizing chart for L or XL. Go L and risk cramping, or go XL and risk lack of support? What are you using? D3 Binding Sizing Chart

Does anyone have experience with these? How do they work? Are they necessary? I use a barefoot international off my SN200 with an extension and handle. I'm always adjusting the height for who is footing (height, ability) and was curious if this would be of help. Barefoot Boom Height Adjuster

Usually spring break as I start getting back on water.

Agree with @jpwhit There is no correlation to your set ZO speed and your deep water start.

From the driver’s perspective, with new or struggling skiers the start should feel painfully slow. I use thumb and forefinger to push the throttle and watch the skier in the mirror. The 6.2 is not for deep water starts - it’s for maintaining speed. Your grip strength and weight ratio doesn’t allow for WOT on starts. Ditch the wetsuit. It will help.

I have to believe there will be some kind of market correction with wake/surf boats similar to what occurred in 08/09 with all boats. The business model just doesn’t seem sustainable in the coming economic environment.

My bad… misread your response to Joel

@horton what did @jhughes do to you to earn that dig?