jhughes

@Mortyski what lines and speed are you running?

It's going to hurt a lot, guys, make no mistake on this.

Also maybe the 2016 Vapor.

ARC-S which I secretly think is an EVO-S anyway. For the S2 fans I skied that recently and we need to let that one slip into the sunset.

TSC-1 doesn't need the hydrogate, the trick wake is actually pretty good.

An affordable used open bow that’s still killer in the course would be 03-06 RLXi, I’d take that over a Sport/206 though the quality is substantially lower than what you’re used to with a Nautique. Otherwise yeah. Another similar 196 would be in order. Nautique didn’t make a primary-course-boat-worthy open bow offering until the 200 which they knocked it out of the park with IMO. I seem to recall that when the 206 came out some of the promo guys got them that year because they were supposed to be so good- they were not happy when they actually got them.

The 6.2 and 5.3 DI motors call for premium, I believe they run something like 11:1 compression which is the same compression as the S62 in my M5. So my 200 with the 5.3DI gets premium. In my GT40 I'd run 87 all day but up by the lake the only carry ethanol-free in premium so it gets premium too.

Stock exactly.

The Vapor is an extremely stable ski and I've seen it work very well for skiers at your level. High end skis are not by nature "unstable", I feel like that's something that we have to stop saying around here, it's ridiculous. Make sure the ski is set up correctly, focusing on binding position and stick with it, it's a fine ski for all levels. Seriously.

Playback lagging for anyone else? I’m only getting a couple of seconds at a time on multiple different apps. Unlistenable at the moment unfortunately due to the lag, I’ll try later.

What is a reasonable expectation for how a static frame trailer is supposed to load in all situations? Every trailer I've had on 5 ski boats has sucked in some way for loading depending on the ramp. On 3 generations of SNs, NWZ->TSC1->200. Oh and that 83 MC, that MC trailer was a real PITA at times. Multiple trailer manufacturers and configurations. By this definition (loading perfectly on all ramps and never rubbing on the boat hull) the 2016 RamLin for my 200 "sucks". I made extended guide poles that I slide on and off for deeper ramps so I can float it on. Still doesn't go on right because the angles with the water and the ramp make it physically impossible, of course. It is not physically possible for the trailer to be 45 degrees angled down under water, then have the boat perfectly set on it at 0 degrees on land. When it unloads the weird reverse chines on the front hit the bunks, reverse on load. And whatnot. Loading depends so much on the angle of the ramp and the depth of that vs. the position of the car at the top of that ramp combined with hitch height/suspension which affects relative hitch height, etc. I'd imagine the primary mission of the trailer is to be a roadworthy chassis to make a boat move around on land behind a car. That is what the trailer is ideally supposed to do. It's a metal frame with wood and carpet on it with some wheels, any way you cut it, no matter what. What reasonably is this frame with wood and carpet on it supposed to magically do at the ramp particularly with today's hulls? How is it also supposed to "not rub" on the bottom of a boat? Additionally I'd bet the majority of tourney ski boat owners don't use their trailer more than a couple times per year, if at all.

Why not just try it if you are interested?

@CPC_1 "196" nomenclature began in 2002 with the TSC2 hull. It's unfortunately mistakenly used to describe older models constantly. TSC 1,2,3 are all evolutions of the NWZ hull from 1990.

This is great and let me say that Rossi's "radio" voice is just friggin' outstanding.

There's really only 1 boat from that era that could be had for less than 10K that drives, tracks, and feels even remotely modern and that's the "No Wake Zone" Ski Nautique, 90-96. Still wood stringers from 90-92 but rot on those seems relatively rare compared to other wood boats from that era. I'd pick up a wood NWZ for the right price without hesitating. The build quality of those NWZ Nautiques is awesome. Sit in one and notice you can see right out the functional windshield, the seat is the right height and everything feels right where it should be. Not to mention they look incredible. If I had a sub-10K budget I'd get the cheapest 90-96 SN I could find (and that would most likely be on the older side of the spectrum). You hear a lot of cheering for the 91-94 MC around here but the ergonomics, tracking/driving, and side spray are nowhere near the same era NWZ SN. Wake might be better but everything else is compromised.

The difference is subtle and there is no downside to the CG Classic. I have it on my ARC-S and to me the difference is that I can feel the ski come around and "pull through" 1/3/5 almost no matter what position I'm in (offside). Less of a difference onside. I'm running stock settings for the ski. The fin isn't going to change your life but it's definitely a little better than stock. I'm running into 32@34mph as a reference.

Maybe we're asking the wrong questions. Is a potential "elephant in the room" that the new boats are simply not selling themselves with big enough advances these days? When we hear comments repeatedly across all brands that XYZ new boat is the same (or in many cases *worse than*, egad) an older model of XYZ new boat? Are strides in 3-event boat technology now so small (and in some cases negative strides depending on who you talk to) that we are now having to "solve a problem" with sales, marketing, and promo that is realistically a symptom of a lack of big advances that really motivate people to simply WANT the new boat, badly, regardless of the incentive scheme? Anecdotally I feel like a few big leaps in the past were: SN 2001 -> NWZ SN 1990. Huge leap, way better boat 90 MC -> 91-94 MC, again big stride forward NWZ SN -> TSC1, Huge leap though more evolutionary it was no joke 03-06 RLXi, showed the industry a roomy walkthrough OB boat could be their primary world-record 3EV boat SN200, adding space, tracking, and ergonomics to a solid list of existing CC attributes in the 196 with no compromises 14+ MC, taking innovation to another level Has this trajectory tapered off lately, and is that why we're asking questions about how to move today's boats? I realize this may be fodder for my first Panda but I wanted to at least get this out there.

Don't forget if the owner of the boat took a loan out for it they could be paying a few thousand in interest per year depending on the terms and amount.

I think any program is going to have to be "performance based marketing". Closing the loop on influence to the actual incremental sale. As such basically anyone who buys a boat based on seeing or riding behind your promo gives the dealer your referral code and the dealer credits you for a rolling 18mo past each promo boat delivery. Something like that. You buy full price but get credited back as the influence spreads.

What worked and didn't work in the past? As I understand it, previously in general the promo owner would get the boat roughly for what they would sell it for for a cost-neutral brand-new boat every year (right?). In return they would be required to drag it around to a couple tournaments (some which may be really far away) and deal with other people driving and handling the boat during those tournaments. Was that a bad deal for manufacturers? I have no idea.

"No thanks" on the other brands, particularly in the late 80's/early 90's. To me it's always been "Big 3" and "OMG".

Tips on that house or tips on Swiss? We were there in 2011 and rented a similar house. Our only regret was not renting a golf cart for the week! Would really make it easy to get around.

I don't know any pros that use it and I've heard me some numbers and letters over the past year from that level of skier. Most of the normal skiers I ski with (not pros) like it at 34mph and longer lines but I do not use it personally.

This dips into the classic "what's the goal" discussion, but part of what makes the sport cool is that when you show up to a public lake at 6AM after a hard week at work you're the only one doing it. Can you imagine there being some huge line of boats trying to put in to "experience" this great activity along with you? You'd get to "share" this wonderful experience as you sat around bobbing in rollers, maybe not even getting to ski that morning. No thanks. As long as we can sustain what we've got, I'm happy. Let those that don't get it continue to not get it.

Nautique was running dual PP/ZO boats in 07. I do recall a couple MC TT having the dual system too, 07 MC was the white hull with the red and black decals on each side.