skispray

I’m having problems with the Buy Now button on the trainwithterrywinter.com site. Anyone else running into issues?

Really enjoyed the show, it was well done. Keep it going!

My thinking is: if you can’t accept the fact that skiers never really have the same water and it’s an outdoor sport where you have to deal with the conditions you’re dealt, then you should probably not be a tournament water skier or a tournament water skiing fan. Rather than trying to control for every little variable in a sport that occurs out in nature, there should just be enough pro tournaments so that, due to the law of large numbers, we are able to tell who the best skiers are by their performances over many competitions. And the tournaments should test skiers in different conditions, so we know who the best all-around skier is! Not just who is the best at skiing glass. There is skill involved in skiing chop! The attitude needs to be that inclement conditions, as long as it’s safe, are part of the sport. The reason people think this is a problem is because water skiing is basically not a competitive sport except for at the professional level. Amateurs go to tournaments to compete only against themselves, so they think that when the pros compete that if they aren’t skiing to their PB then the tournament is of low quality. No. These guys are competing against one another and they are true athletes. They want to prove they’re the best in the conditions present (at least I hope that’s their mindset). If amateur skiing were ability based and there was a lot done to make the culture of tournaments about winning, then it would better reflect what’s going on at the pro level, and maybe amateurs would better appreciate what the pros are about and the amazing abilities they are displaying in tough conditions.

@GaryWilkinson Like I said, if it’s unsafe then that isn’t good. But I don’t see evidence that the conditions at the master’s are unsafe. What evidence can you cite that would indicate that it’s unsafe? And I also don’t see evidence that the conditions lead to random results. What evidence would you cite to argue that the results are more random at this tournament? Nate won slalom again, just like he has in the past. Will Asher and Freddie Winter made it to the finals, like you’d expect. Maybe Pigozza is just good? And in jump and trick, year after year, the cream keeps rising to the top. So everyone that keeps using the word random, please give me one shred of evidence that makes your case. If you have none, then stop using the word. It’s insulting to the skiers the perform well under such tough conditions.

@scotchipman @mcskier41 look, I do understand your argument, and forgive me for saying this, but seriously I don’t think this level of anal-retentiveness does any good for the sport. I mean, you can plan a tournament at a perfect site, wait while the other skiers in your round get pristine conditions, and then have the wind gust up before you ski and end up with a 15 mph tailwind. It’s an outdoor sport, so conditions are part of it. Just deal with that. I don’t hear any skiers that participate in the master’s complain about the outcome being random. They know that the site is tough to ski and they go out and do their best. Sometimes they get bitten, but as long as it isn’t dangerous I think it should be part of the sport. Some skiers are legitimately better in tough conditions. There should be events that are pristine and there should be events that are challenging, and someone that performs well at both is truly the best. There are some skiers that seem to consistently ski worse at tough tournaments, and I think it means they just aren’t as good when the going gets tough. In most sports the pros deal with more difficult conditions than amateurs. I get that you’re looking for “fairness”, but I think the problem you’re concerned with is really not a very big deal; and the outcome you get is bad for the sport: pro tournaments where there are about 7 spectators, the same person wins by like 4 buoys every round, but the conditions are perfect. The masters, on the other hand, is an awesome tournament. Don’t “fix” it because it isn’t broken.

If the rollers lead to such unfair conditions then why do the best skiers still always seem to win? And if things are so random, then why did the skiers in the men’s semifinals all seem to hit the same rollers at 3 ball?

Some great advice above. Just so you’re hearing the same thing a few different ways, I’ll give you my take. It looks like your turn could be more progressive. Right now, your ski looks like it is pointing 90 degrees to the boat’s direction of travel before you even get to the trough, whereas you probably don’t want to be at that intensity until you’re actually starting to rise up the wake. Don’t change anything aside from your intensity in the middle part of your cut and I think you’ll have it.

@AdamCord thanks for the reply. Should everyone be doing the Get High on the Boat still at 41 off? Or would the rope length vary based on ability. FYI, I run 28 off pretty consistently but haven’t ran 32 off yet (36 mph) and was thinking maybe doing the drill at 38 off.

@adamhcaldwell I'm not close but maybe I need to start thinking about a trip. @DW check out the second comment on this discussion by @AdamCord. He has described it elsewhere as trying to get so high on the boat that he passes the windshield.

@AdamCord @adamhcaldwell I created this post because the two of you seem to have applied experimentation and the scientific method to all aspects of skiing with great success and I have many questions about what you've learned along the way. This post is specifically about what you've learned regarding practice methods; Reading your posts this offseason I've seen you mention a few drills often and I'm wondering if there are also other drills you employ and how much of one's water time should be spent on drills versus passes. Essentially, I'm wondering what program you would create if you were coaching a skier and had 100% control over the methods they used when practicing. I also have some specific questions about drills you have mentioned previously... (1) Pass the windshield drill Adam Cord introduced this drill and it sounds like it is the drill to do. I'm excited to spend time on this to improve outbound connection to the handle and get that 'aha' moment that may lead to shorter rope. My question is this: Is this the type of drill one should do until they get that 'aha' moment and then move on? Or is it the type of thing that skiers should be doing regularly? (2) The lean drill This drill has been around for ever and I'm just referring to the drill where you pull out and continue to lean against the line all the way down the lake. The idea is to drill into your head the proper stacked position on both heelside and toeside. My question is: Given the dynamic nature of a wake crossing do you see this drill as having a place in the slalom skiers tool kit? Or is it just for beginners? (3) Two-handed slalom passes A drill that I hear people talk about a lot but never see anyone do. I can see how this could have obvious benefits but, as with the other drills, I'm curious how much one should be doing this relative to running normal passes? (4) Sets in the course: Volume vs. Intensity When skiing passes I normally strive to successfully complete about 80% to ensure I'm building muscle memory through repetition of good form. Do you prescribe to any beliefs about the best way to go about our time in the course? Any other general lessons learned or philosophies on this topic? Given that it's the beginning of the season I'm open to trying new ideas and am interested in what the two of you think about this stuff!

@JeffSurdej it's awesome that people in leadership positions are thinking outside the box like you are. I've thought about this a bit and I think the amount of people required to run a tournament; that is, the number of people required to verify a 'legit score', is a bit ridiculous. In order for a score to count you've gotta have a rated driver, boat judge, tower judges, etc. Compare it to crossfit where you do the workout and you have one certified judge being trusted to accurately certify your score. But at the same time, I get it. Water skiing is unique in that an outsider (the driver) can have an enormous impact on a skier's scores. I've been wondering why technology couldn't help with score verification. I'm not sure of the current capabilities of gps, but how cool would it be if zero off could be used to verify boat path? And why couldn't sensors like the one linked below be attached to a ski to verify path for slalom, distance for jump, and hell maybe even verify credit for tricks? Maybe it's a pipe dream but it sure seems like we're getting to the point where all of this would be possible. https://www.litprolive.com

Check out the video below of a barefooter having a close call with a handle injury. Reddit Link This videos scares the bejesus out of me! I have handle guards on my handle, so my fear is less about my personal situation and more about others. Can you imagine an incident like this getting caught on video? I'm a little surprised that handle manufacturers don't put handle guards on their handles straight from the factory, or at least have it as an option. It seems like a lot of liability on their part to not do something to minimize the risks. I'm not trying to impose any of my own judgment on other people's products, and like I said I use handle guards because that's a personal preference, just wondering aloud about why handle guards aren't an option straight from a handle manufacturer. Also, is this something that tournament hosts/governing bodies need to worry about? Or does the risk fall to the individual? It just seems like such an easy safety device to use and if you put one on right it has no effect at all on your skiing (well, that's my personal experience anyway, even for trick ski spins).

@AdamCord thanks for your reply. It sounds like pretty much all of what you said could be applied equally well to cut from the ball to the wakes. Do you subscribe to the idea that your shoulders should be square to the direction of travel in the cut as well?

@AdamCord why does the GUT technique emphasize the upper body staying square to direction of travel during the first 45 degrees of the pull out (i.e. Shoulders not open to the boat)? I have seen a lot of people point their sternum towards the boat as a means of dropping their hips outbound and forward in order to initiate the pull out, which is sort of a "west coast" movement. I think Parrish does this now. It seems like both movements could be viewed as a way to efficiently move the ski outbound. What are the pros and cons of these differing movements?

@Horton unless I misunderstand you, I think you just said it: smear = drift. It's when the tail or the ski travels an arc wider than the path of the skier, and in general this happens when we are not under load from the boat. When we are in our cut the boat is pulling the tip and tall down course at roughly the same rate, so that's "slip" or "slide," not smear/drift. Do you agree?

When @eleeski posts do everything he says. He's basically a saint when it comes to helping trickers. @MattP is right, your weight is too far over your back foot, beginning in your glide and then it stays that way through your cut and off the wakes. It helped me a lot to stand completely on my front foot when initiating the turn in and then keeping my body over that front foot all the way up through the top of the wake. I have a tendency to initiate the flip off my back foot so I have to exaggerate it a lot. Although you have your weight back in the video it looks like you are being patient off the wakes so if you have your weight further forward it should clean things up quickly.

This feedback aligns with what I see. Yes, course time is scarce but does always skiing in the course use that time most effectively? Maybe instead of being in the course 100% of the time we'd see faster improvement with 60% course and 40% drills. But no one preaches that. Is it because it wouldn't work or because we just don't want to? Is there anyone that has experience with drilling that can say, "yeah, it helped me at shortlibe," or "no, that was a waste of time." I guess @AdamCord does drills. Anyone else? What are the thoughts on effectiveness?

Many people on this board will be familiar with some of the popular slalom drills, most famously from Gordon Rathbrun and Seth Stisher. For example, the videos below are Gorden's pulling drill and Seth's 'whips' drill. Now, I've been around a lot of skiers and I've never seen any of them do these drills or any other drills that take you out of the course. So I'm wondering a few things: - Do any of you shortline skiers do drills outside the course? - Why do so few people practice with drills? - Are they effective for people skiing, say, 28 off and shorter? My motivation for asking is that I want to improve some aspects of my form and am considering spending time doing some drills. I run into 32 off so I'm wondering if my time is better spent doing drills or drilling in the course? Would running a set of 8 passes that I can smoke, working on technique, be better than doing isolation drills? If not, why don't people do more of it? How come I've never had a coach tell me to practice drills for a bit every set?

Yes I would have to agree with @david_quail, having experienced crossfit firsthand I would say that the reputation that crossfit has in regards to injuries is significantly overblown. There are some boxes that are of lower quality though and some people push themselves too hard, so I believe the PT stories. Just know that you can get hurt doing these lifts if you don't know what you're doing and push too hard, and that finding a good box is important to ensure you learn proper technique. If you keep those things in mind I don't think your risk of injury will be higher than on any other program, sans personal training with a highly experienced coach.

Is there anything that's like yoga but more exciting? I can do crossfit because it's short and intense. Yoga - I wish I could stick with it but I find it boring. Maybe going to a studio would help. I have a hard time working out on my own in my home. But I'm not sure that'd be enough. I'm with @sunvalleylaw I want more flexibility, more core strengthening, and something that's exciting enough to keep me doing it.

For the last two off-seasons I've been doing crossfit. I'm really happy with what it's done for my skiing but both last year and this year I've thought that I'd keep doing it during the season a couple days a week only to find myself giving it up mid-season because I feel worn down and always skiing with sore muscles. I end up just skiing and trying to eat healthy until the offseason starts again. It's a decent system but I don't like going cold-turkey during the season, as I'm losing some of the strength that I built up during the offseason and it feels like I get some imbalances from purely skiing. I'm wondering if others do crossfit during the season and, if so, how do you keep yourself fresh for skiing and avoid from burning yourself out? Are there other workout programs that are more complimentary to in-season skiing? FYI, I do crossfit about four days per week in the offseason and in-season I ski three days per week. At the beginning of the season I'm usually in the gym 1-2 days per week but, as I said, haven't been able to keep it up through the season.

@lundberg could you take a picture of your handle flipped over? I'm trying to see how you did the lacing and knots to keep everything together with parachute cord.

So what is the consensus on the mid-loops? If you run a 30-off loop does it help you learn 32 faster? Does it make you a better skier at 28? Or is it just another line length that's more within reach than 32 so it keeps things fun?

@dhofert if it's a possibility I would also recommend renting a car. You should look into it carefully because you might be able to find a rental car that's no more expensive than what those places would charge to pick you up and drop you off at the airport.

@dhofert what kind of coaching are you looking for? Jack Travers is one of the best coaches I've skied with and you have the opportunity to ski with him if you go there. You can also ski with Jon and Natalia who are both excellent or with their staff, all of whom are accomplished skiers. At Bennett's you'd be skiing with staff most likely, and the staff at Bennetts and Travers are probably comparable. The difference is that if you want to spend a little more you can get really world class coaching at Travers. Both Bennett's and Travers are kind of in the middle of nowhere but you won't have time for much else other than skiing anyways. If you're going in March you may want to call and see how busy each place is expected to be. I know a lot of European and Asian students come over in the spring so it could be crowded. I haven't been to the boarding school.