AdamCord

I think the closest equivalent for ropes is ZO setting. It's like going to a tournament and finding out you're only allowed to use A1. Yes you could probably learn to ski on A1, but it would be nice to know ahead of time. @Horton I think Terry's idea makes sense, but it also draws attention to the fact that a lot of people struggle on overly soft ropes...why are these being pushed as a premiere product?

@Bruce_Butterfield sometimes the pot needs a stir or two. We can only discuss @Horton’s onside turn for so long. Is it summer yet?

@Bruce_Butterfield meh. I don’t have to do anything unless my wife tells me to, and I certainly don’t get paid to ski. @Horton you first

@skierjp agreed but the issue isn't that they are using ML, it's that they are only offering the soft "Optimized" variant, instead of the normal ML rope. All other tournaments that use ML give the skier the option to use either one. I can say from experience as a bigger guy that the softer rope can be downright dangerous at the shorter lines when I'm putting a 900+lb load on the rope.

@Jody_Seal I appreciate your nuanced and thoughtful perspective on this. Here's my take- This event is obviously very early in the season, so anyone who doesn't live in FL is already going to be on the fence about going. That as well as the fact that it is a lower payout event makes it less of a priority. So at the end of the day a skier has to decide if it's worth the flight/drive, hotel, car, entry fees, etc. If you then find out 2 days beforehand that they are using a rope that you are either uncomfortable with or you know you don't ski well on, it's a pretty easy decision not to go. I think if Swiss had announced this decision a few weeks ago it would have been a non-issue. That's just my perspective, I wasn't personally planning to go this year but this is the calculation I've always had to make when deciding whether on not to go to this event.

Apparently Swiss made the decision to only use the ML Optimized rope this weekend. They also chose not to disclose this to any of the skiers. So anyone who hasn't been training on that rope is screwed. No idea why they think this is a good idea.

Current skiers: Dane Mechler Brian Detrick Adam Caldwell Cole McCormick

Thanks @Luzz , I listened to your (very good) podcast with him and somehow forgot about that.

@Horton well if we're talking modern skiers then it's obviously me, I didn't think there was much to debate there

Matteo Ianni

@bko actually adding drag to the ski has the opposite effect. The more draggy the ski the more you have to keep it in front of you in order to find equilibrium between the boat's pull, your COM, and the drag on the ski. Just imagine if you tried to get way ahead of a ski with a ton of drag. It will keep going behind you until you go OTF. Reducing drag, on the other hand, gives you the opportunity to get ahead of the ski without it getting sucked behind you. It's up to you to take advantage of that opportunity though, it won't happen on its own.

@Mose yes all carbon fiber laminates and PVC core. Cores are machined in house on our CNC and skis are hand built, all at our shop in Charleston. We have a top secret layup process that makes the skis come out stronger and more consistent than other skis that we invented after rigorous testing and evaluation. Because of that no c85 has ever broken, and we have skis with 600+ sets that still flex exactly like they did from factory. B)

In a pull there’s going to be a pretty straight line from your shoulders to the pylon with your hands and the handle in between. The loads are too high for you to manipulate the handle position much. That being said, you want the handle and your hips as close together as is feasible to ensure a powerful pull and swing. I’m always trying to evolve my skiing, and something I was able to figure out this summer was that I can do all this much better when I try to keep my hips between my shoulders and the boat. It’s a similar mechanism to “hips up”, but a different way of thinking about it. Now I just try and keep my hips from ever moving away from the boat all the way through the pull and edge change. The other thing I focus on is keeping my armpits tight, as opposed to trying to drive the handle down.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CWZcgH9vdS7/?utm_medium=copy_link

@slow there’s no need for me to do that, people putting on elite tournaments already know this, it’s not a debate. I chime in here to help explain to people who are confused or unsure about it. If someone else wants to go through the process of a true blind test then go for it. I do believe @Horton did a test (although not blind) and skied better with the correct fuel.

@Dacon62 exactly. @JackQ these engines and their controls are much more complicated than that. Under perfect conditions on a dyno I'm sure you can get similar numbers with different types of gas. But we don't run our boats in those conditions. Intake air temp, oil age and viscosity, coolant temp (especially on a lake with seaweed that clogs filters) and even fuel (your 87 vs my 87 vs the 87 they used in this demo) are not all created equal. These engines run a 12.5:1 compression ration. Why did GM run ratios between 8 and 9:1 for 50 years and only switch to 12.5:1 now? Were they just stupid for all that time if you clearly can run 87 in a 12.5:1 engine without issue? We know 12.5:1 is better because it is more efficient, makes more power, and burns cleaner. The reason they didn't do it and the reason they require high octane in vehicles with this engine is knock: Gm has smart controls engineers and they know not everyone will put high octane in their trucks all the time, or that people make mistakes, or even that sometimes the octane rating at the gas station is incorrect. So they design the system to retard the timing in the case of knock to keep from damaging the engine. This lets you run 87 and maybe you won't notice, especially driving to get groceries in your truck. But it's a different story in a boat. We push the engines way harder than your average truck owner. We load the engine to the max coming out of the hole during the deep water start, run at high rpm and power down the lake for ~30 seconds, then drop on the ends and the engine heat soaks for a minute before we do it over again and again. This is not what these engines were ever designed for. Unless you are pulling tricks or wakeboarders you will get knock doing this with low octane fuel at some point. When that happens the ECU goes into a derate mode to protect the engine and then the power curve shifts. The Zero Off settings were dialed in for these boats using good fuel and with the engines running properly. As soon as the power curve shifts the feel of the boat shifts considerably. Maybe if we could go in and adjust the gains and other variables in the ZO software we could make it feel the same running 87, but currently that's not an option. And even if it were, you're still potentially damaging your engine long term, which is why GM says not to use less than 91.

@Bruce_Butterfield if I skied 2 days prior and I knew I might be in a runoff for the finals I would absolutely make the ~15 minute drive over to Swiss and get a set or two in over there while the Series 1 and 2 skiers are skiing, then you'd at least have a chance. That's the great thing about having this event in central florida!

@adamhcaldwell sure you can slide your onside and make a full buoy, let’s see you do it on your offside like the GOAT

@adamhcaldwell told me he cut to 41 more times this weekend at Malibu Open than he has total in practice since coming back from his broken ribs. Insane

The question I often ask in the Andy vs Nate goat debate is this: if Andy were the same age as Nate and they were competing head to head today, who would be winning more events?

@Irishsam I was a member at Twin Lakes for years when I lived in Westchester County. Great group of die hard skiers and lot of fun to be a part of. You won’t regret joining there.

@Horton this is actual video of @skiinxs coming into the pregates:

I just wanted to give a shout out and say thanks to Dave Krohne @skiinxs at Lake of Dreams near St. Louis for letting me use his amazing lake as my 2nd training site. My day job has had me spending a lot of time managing a project in St. Louis this summer and Dave has been gracious in letting me come out and ski pretty much anytime I want, even when he's been injured and can't ski. The lake is about as protected as a lake can get, and conditions have been perfect every time I've been there, not to mention the new Nautique and world class driving. Thanks Dave! Set in the dark this past week:

@Horton when I skied with Mapple he used to start at 28 most of the time. If he wasn't too good for 28 then you also aren't. That being said he usually skipped 35 and 38, but he did start at 28 :D