GK

With all the discussion about Class C tournaments, dwindling skiers, keeping it fun and inexpensive, etc... In Ohio we hold 5 "Fun Format" events every year with the final stop being at the State Championships. 30 skiers is a poor tournament, it's typically closer to 40 and sometimes as high as 60. Costs are $50 for slalom ($40 for having ANY kind of officials rating) and you're guaranteed 2 rounds with the chance to compete for a 3rd and sometimes more depending on the format. We're adding a new "Team Competition" to every event for 2016 which only increases your chances of competing and winning. We're currently sitting on 14 sponsors for the year all of whom have donated goods to be awarded to the winners of each event (lots of swag!) with the overall season winner taking home a brand new d3 Arc this year (d3 is the best!). Awards are given out at every event. If you're within a stones throw of Ohio, then please come and participate, we welcome anyone from any state. Even BallOfSpray used to be a sponsor, we gave out BOS hats to all of the winners each week. Here is the email that just went out on the upcoming season... The Buckeye Buoy Tour is back for its 8th Season in 2016! There are a few changes for 2016 so be sure to read this entire email. TEAM COMPETITION The biggest change for 2016 will be the addition of a Team Competition at each Tour Stop. All teams must be submitted to info@skiowsa.com no later than June 23rd, so you have 2 weeks to assemble your teams (the sooner the better). Teams can consist of 4 to 7 skiers and you need a minimum of 4 at any given event to compete as a team. So if you have 7 skiers on your team, only 4 of those 7 need to be at an event. However there is an advantage to bringing a full team of 7. Scoring will be done based on the team that combined ski the best against their average. Since it’s all based on averages, teams can have a different number of skiers and the more you bring, the more scores will be dropped as follows: • 4 Skier Team: All 4 scores will count towards team. • 5 Skier Team: Bottom score will be dropped and Top 4 will be averaged. • 6 Skier Team: Bottom score will be dropped and Top 5 will be averaged. • 7 Skier Team: Bottom 2 scores will be dropped and Top 5 will be averaged. So just to clarify, you can have a team of 4, 5, 6, or 7 skiers but you only need a minimum of 4 to show up at any given event in order for your team to compete (no subs allowed). Please create your teams ASAP and email the team name as well as the list of skiers on the team to info@skiowsa.com. AWARDS Lisa Nelson has done a fabulous job getting new sponsors for the 2016 season. Check out the website at http://skiowsa.com/buckeye-buoy-tour for a complete list of sponsors and please give them first consideration when buying new gear! Most of these sponsors have donated products that will be given out as prizes for each stop, so look for our top finishers at each event to receive more swag than ever! If your business would like to sponsor the BBT please email Lisa ASAP at anelson9@cinci.rr.com. Lisa is also creating new t-shirts to be sold this season. Awards will be presented to individual winners & team winners at each event. Season awards will be awarded at the State Championship Banquet to both individual and teams. Trick, Jump, & Overall tour champions will be awarded on your Top 2 scores out of 3 events, Slalom will be awarded based on your Top 3 scores out of 5 events. REGISTRATION With the rising costs of everything, we’ve had to make a slight tweak to registration fees for the first time in 8 years, however you can still ski at the same great price if you plan accordingly. If you register 2 weeks in advance, you can still ski for the same great rate of $50 for 1 event, $70 for 2 events, and $80 for 3 events. If you register after that 2 week period then you will pay an additional $10. Registration will close at midnight on Wednesday before the event. Don’t forget, if you are an official and willing to work the tournament you will save 20% (check the invited officials box at registration) and Juniors receive a 30% discount. For collegiate discounts you must contact the Tournament Director directly and discounts may be awarded in exchange for help with the site preparations/cleanup/event work. 2016 Buckeye Buoy Tour

I applaud the NCWSA for making some BOLD changes! Also, if we make the max speed 36 mph for every division then it doesn't matter if 6 buoys is a perfect handicap. Skiers would ski whichever speed they feel gives them the best chance at the highest score possible.

It's also important to note that you do NOT need to be qualified for regionals OR nationals to be part of your team. So if you need to recruit some women or juniors to fill out your team, they do not need to be qualified for Regionals.

Yeah, I've just been telling the guys in my circle. I would have proposed it to the board but I didn't think it would have a chance in hell of getting approved. I hope I'm wrong and they will give it strong consideration!

I've been recommending we need to make this rule change for a few years. I think it would be very good for helping to grow the number of local tournament skiers. We have allowed reduced max speeds at Buckeye Buoy Tour tournaments. We score them 6 buoys below for every 2 miles per hour and it has no negative impact other than we can't post their scores as Class C (only grassroots). I think over time this actually simplifies the understanding of our sport from a spectator perspective because it puts more emphasis on total buoy count as opposed to line length and speed. I think this will actually be easier to understand and give people a better understanding of the level of skiing that our professionals when being compared to amateurs. Keeping the same max speeds "as is" for Regionals/Nationals seems like a fine compromise to me if necessary, but I don't see how it would negatively impact those events either. We need to make decisions in this sport that will most benefit the largest number of skiers, not based on benefiting the most elite skiers.

Hopefully you can work it out as I think it's important for the growth of our sport. We've had college kids skiing at our site one night a week for over 15 years. In exchange for using the site they mow the grass, clean up goose shit, trim trees, mulch beds, and whatever else we can find for them to do. With 15+ people the work can usually get done pretty quick. You're dealing with 18 to 22 year old kids so many are immature and will piss you off along the way. We've learned that you just ask those individuals to leave and don't come back. Most kids that age have had everything handed to them up to this point in their life and many don't understand why it shouldn't just continue. With that being said, there are plenty of really good kids who do appreciate it and many of them are still skiing with us and area clubs today, even after graduation.

I'm working on a similar idea for Ohio in 2016, however a good bit different. Email me if you want to discuss. gk at rounding6.com

@ToddL , please shoot me an email gk @ rounding6.com, I'd like to better understand your spreadsheet and weighting. If we can get it to where we think it's even across all ability levels, then I'd like to run it side by side with our handicapping system next weekend and see how it alters the results. Thanks!

@ToddL, I think you're on the right track with the most accurate way to handicap. It would probably take a LOT of trial and error to find the right formula but I think it could be found. With that being said, this "formula" would be great to have, but the best way to level the field on any given day is still in how you format the tournament to pit similar skiers against each other until you reach the later rounds of an event. This is very important for leveling the playing field for that given day versus data that has been collected from many months.

@richarddoane If it was harder, then it wouldn't be that skiers average. @Horton It makes perfect sense to take the Top 3 out of 5, I also use the Top 3. I understand the top 16 won't be handicapped (not so good for the 16th seed), I'm only speaking to the handicapped portion which should still have a wide range of skiers I would assume. Just giving suggestions on how I think you could level that playing field. I run a season long tour with 5 to 6 stops each year, with skiers maxing out from 15 mph to 41 off. Our season results are pretty level and prove that super shortline skiers CAN compete with novice skiers. 2009 - 2 of top 5 had averages into 35 off 36 mph, and 1 of top 5 into 39 off 34 mph 2010 - 1 of top 5 had average into 35 off 36 mph, and 1 of top 5 into 38 off 34 mph 2011 - 1 of top 5 had average into 38 off 36 mph, and the winner had avg into 38 off 34 mph 2012 - 1 of top 5 had average into 38 off 34 mph 2013 - 1 of top 5 had average into 38 off 36 mph 2014 - 1 of top 5 was a female with avg into 38 off 34 mph and 1 was a man with avg into 38 off With all that being said, a super shortline skier has only been crowned Champion once out of 6 years, but if the results are going to be skewed one way or the other (because it can't be perfect) isn't it the best thing for the amateur side of the sport if the underdog wins? I understand it's just a pilot and I think you've got a solid foundation for a GREAT event. I just wanted to share my findings over the past 6 years in case it could help.

Horton, I like what you're trying to do here and I think waterskiing needs more handicapped events. The fact that you're trying to do it as a cash prize makes it VERY challenging because as you've mentioned there is no perfectly fair way to handicap. I'm chiming in here only because I've organized over 2 dozen handicapped events in the past 5 years so maybe I can lend some help (or maybe not). I think your handicapping format is pretty solid but I do have a couple comments... 1. By design, you've given a significant advantage to shortline skiers because you didn't like the perceived advantage of the more novice skiers. I don't think skewing it the opposite direction helps solve the problem (yes, I have an alternative solution below). 2. You're taking a VERY large sample of tournaments if you're requiring at least 5 PLUS taking into account the first two rounds of an event. If you're telling me that you ran on average 2 @ 38 off over those 7 rounds and another guy ran an average 4 @ 28 off over those 7 rounds, then why is the assumption that it's harder for you to get 2 @ 38 off than it is for him to get 4 @ 28 off? That's the one part I don't understand. 3. Here would be my suggestion/solution. a) Do not so heavily skew your handicap to the shortline skiers, if a skier runs their average, it should be equal (or very close to) all across the board. b) Adjust for the more novice skiers through your formatting of the tournament. In other words, if a skier in any given round skis beyond their average, then that score becomes their new average for the day (or at the very least, greatly skews their average upward for the remainder of the day). If you're doing a head-to-head, then your skiers with the highest average compete at one end of the bracket and the novice skiers at the other end of the bracket. By the time you reach the finals, all skiers will have increased their average to THEIR ability level for that given day. In your case, rounds 1 and 2 would more than likely increase everyone's average to a level playing field for Round 3, but what if you divided round 3 into 3 groups based on average, and then 2 skiers from each group advance to a 6 person finals? Now you've added another round to equal the playing field for the 6 person finals. Don't get me wrong, I think your system will work, I'm just giving you some food for thought as you strive towards the "most fair" system possible. Good luck and if you find the perfect system, I'm going to steal your calculations and use them myself! :-)

@OB, those are all good points. Our scoring is based on a percentage of your average, so yes, someone running 3 buoys beyond their average at 28 off would beat someone at 2 buoys over their average at 39 off, however those 2 skiers probably wouldn't compete against each other until the finals and you would probably be looking at a top 3 finish for both of those skiers. On top of that, do you think that the skier who ran 2 beyond his average at 39 off is going to be disappointed? Hell no, he is going to be elated with his skiing for the day so he is not going to be upset with whether he won or not. Also, had both skiers been 1/2 buoy under their average, the 39 off skier would have won because his percentage would be higher, so it goes both ways. There is no great way to account for the "difficulty level" as you get to shorter lines, however it's not really as much about the shortline skier. If you're running into 39 off then everyone at the tournament already knows you're a badass and you probably walk away as top dog at a number of events. It's the other skier who may be in the same division that runs into 28 off that can feel good about the one tournament in his life when he skied his ass off well enough to be crowned "winner" for the day. That kind of opportunity gets people excited and keeps them coming back!

@OB, why shouldn't every skier, regardless of age or ability, have a shot at winning on any given day or year if they ski well enough to do so? Our format is setup to reward consistency and improvement. The skier running 2 @ 39 off would never meet that 21 mph skier until the finals on any given day and skiers averages are increased to their highest score of the day to push EVERY skier to the top of their game by the final round. In other words, if that novice started with an average of 2@19 mph and ran 6@21mph in round 2, then her average for round 3 would be 6@21mph. So by the 3rd or 4th round (finals), it may be just as difficult for them to match that score of 6@21mph as it would be for the advanced skier to match his average of 2@39off. P.S. Met a buddy of yours at Lake Cumberland last weekend.

In Ohio, we've been doing exactly what Todd Leach described with Class C tournaments for about 6 or 7 years now. Fun format events, running orders are seeded, skiing against ranking list average, any ability level can win on any given day, and all scores go towards ranking lists. We call it the Buckeye Buoy Tour, it's 5 or 6 Tour Stops each year and your Top 3 event scores are added to determine who wins the overall season. Our tour champions have ranged from a guy in his 40's running into 38 off to a 7 year old girl running into 21 mph. It's sponsored by D3 and the Tour Champion has won a brand new D3 slalom ski the past 4 years, not to mention other prizes such as "gold" Fin Firkins to each tour stop winner, beach towels, ski togs, gloves, and an array of other prizes. It works great, our tournament numbers have been up, collegiate participation is up, and over all good times had by all are up. I've posted the details on this forum multiple times and it typically gets very little comments because most people want to talk but they don't want to step up and make the change.

Horton, I disagree, we have extremely competitive tournaments amongst all ages. It can be done and just because kids are involved doesn't mean it has to be all about fun with limited competition. By seeding skiers the way we do, an ultra-shortline skier won't even see a kid until the final round. Prior to that its them competing against other shortline skiers.

I too like that the committee is at least working on making the event better. I see these changes helping to bring in more skiers from the top of each division (which is good and what I think Nationals should be about). I don't however think this encourages the skiers in the "mid-pack" as they state. I see little chance of those mid-pack skiers making the finals and even if they do ski out of their mind and make the finals, now they have to do it again to have a shot at placing. I'm guessing this new format is an advantage to the top seeds because they are ultimately going to be the most consistent. If they slip up in Round 1 and drop a couple spots they can get back on their game in the finals. I'm not against the proposal but I don't see it increasing the overall numbers at Nationals. I do however think it will make Nationals a little more exciting for the top 30% in each division who have a shot at the finals.

It is possible to do a handicapped tournament with all ability levels including kids. You can use most any of the handicap scoring systems mentioned, the key is in the format of the tournament and the handicaps need to adjust each round. If you ski beyond your average, then that score becomes your new average for future rounds. Early rounds are grouped based on ability level and by the time you reach the 3rd or later rounds, the more novice skiers have typically increased their average close to their maximum ability level for that day leaving you with the ability for all levels to compete in the finals or later head to head rounds. We use this type of scoring for all Buckeye Buoy Tour events in Ohio. We've had winners ranging from 5 year olds at 15 mph to 38 off skiers. For our handicap scoring purposes, it would be nice if USA Waterski had a field for your average without the penalty applied. Top 3 scores work great, but when I'm setting up the tournament I have to go in and manually remove the penalties to keep it fair.

Bill, I organize the Buckeye Buoy Tour and we do typically include a grassroots sanction with all of our BBT Stops. Check out www.skiowsa.com for details on upcoming events. Pleasant Shores in Van Wert is holding a stop for the 2015 season.

Nobody pays attention to collegiate nationals because they're not competitive. Nothing against ULM, they excel in the current system over all other teams and deserve to be crowned National Champions, unfortunately it's just not very exciting for anyone else. Nobody would watch collegiate football or basketball either if it were the same scenario. I'm not saying it should be changed, I'm just saying it would be cool if there really were 10 to 12 teams competing for a National Championship each year.

I would look at what states are sending collegiate teams to your events and then reach out to those state federations. There are bound to be parents and alumni of those teams who would be willing to help for little to no money. I agree with Jeff that it sounds like the Iowa Federation needs to focus on building more officials. Only 3 regular/senior officials in the entire state is going to make putting on any 3-event tournament difficult whether it's collegiate or AWSA.

The rule also creates some excitement because every time it happens (assuming you have an announcer) all eyes are on the water to see if the skier can handle the pressure of having to run their 2nd pass.

That's why I was curious about the bungees, eventually they're all different lengths and your course is all out of whack. Ed, if you feel that some sort of bungee is necessary, what do you suggest using and how long of a piece do you use?

What is the best, most simple but accurate downline for a floating course? Is it necessary to have bungees on every buoy, if so why?

I love it. The only thing that I would add is to make the top speed for every division 36 mph. Let people determine what speed is best for them and have it!

As a proud alumni, congrats to the University of Cincinnati who had their best finish at Regionals in school history and qualified for their 6th Nationals in a row. Also congrats to Miami University who qualified for the 2nd year in a row! The competition in the Midwest is outstanding!!!