skiinxs

.....at least that is what the graphics on the skis indicated...

I can't remember any time I have ever enjoyed watching a tournament this much. Everything absolutely top notch, perfect site conditions, outstanding officiating, great skier drama, the best skiing I have ever seen, flawless performing towboats, great driving, and a fantastic production by TWBS. I know it has been a long time since "Hot Summer Nights", but this was better, even without editing. (Maybe I need to break out some old VHS tapes and get a player working again to compare). I really believe that with some editing to distill down to an hour, or series of hour shows, this would be very marketable to a non-skiing audience (or at the very least recreational skiing audience). To me it was much more entertaining than any "Professional" sporting event with multi-million dollar annual salaried participants.

@Bruce_Butterfield Similar numbers, yes, but the breadcrumb trails would tell a lot.

Suggestion for TWSBC - Skier name and rope length in a box on screen would be a great enhancement for times when we are unable to have sound on. Not a complaint though, best production of water ski tournaments I have ever seen, and they keep getting better!

Much shorter list of what DOESN'T hurt!

@Andre 4 houses/owners, one of the other owners takes a set or two on most weekends, another uses the lake a few times a year, the 4th never uses it:) this is what the water looks like almost all the time!

Come on out, you are guaranteed 93 only:)

Anyone passing through the St. Louis area on the way to nationals looking for a practice pull is welcome to stop by Lake of Dreams in Jersryville, IL.

We use Sensient from Indylake too. The grass carp alone were losing the battle. Started adding 10 gal of blue and two gal of black every year 5 years ago. Have had zero weed problems since. Annual cost is around $1,150.

@JackQ I do have a pretty good handle on how ECM's work. I am also aware of how the new engines with both pre-cat and post cat O2 sensors adapt fuel curves when running in closed loop, but that is not what is important here, knock sensors detecting pre-ignition knock and causing a derate which retards timng advance is the key. What I also know for sure is that when two of my boats have been in derate mode with timing retarded, on one occasion after putting a good supply of Klotz octane boost or on a different occasion running down to almost empty then adding a full tank of 93 octane I pulled a couple sets, then made wide open runs. Both times I was still down around 9 mph and around 1,000 rpm's. Both times I then plugged in Diacom and could see the octane derate and timing retard present. Both times I then disconnected the battery for a couple minutes, started back up with Diacom still plugged in and the derate and timing retard were both instantly gone. Both times I then took a wide open run down the lake and the 9 mph and 1,000 rpm's were back. On neither occasion did the ECM's immediately adjust after getting good fuel. Since I didn't program the ECM's I can't tell you how the adaptive learn is programmed, but I can certainly report on hard data of how they acted in the above situations.

@JackQ If you don't disconnect the battery, it could take a tank or two for the ecm to "forget" it is in low octane detune mode when it is pulling ignition advance to prevent knocking. That it the reason to disconnect the battery once better fuel is loaded. I agree that higher octane does not have more energy, it is actually is a little less. The improvement only happens if the lower grade fuel is causing an ignition retard due to detected knocking. For the 13 6.0 PCM's i owned, I never had any instance of a detune on 87 octane fuel, so any higher octane would have been a waste of money. On the four higher compression 6.2's I have owned I absolutely get a detune with anything less than 93 Octane. This shows up as lower rpm at WOT and a Diacom indication of an octane detune.

Once you have changed to the higher octane, disconnect the battery for a couple minutes then reconnect. This will force the ECM to relearn and the higher octane should be notable if it makes a difference. I would also do a wide open run on both octanes and note rpm and mph. If that doesn't change, there was no effect (unless your boat is able to bump the rev limiter on lower octane fuel). As I mentioned a long time ago in this thread I had noted a huge difference in top speed / rpm on my 6.2 as well as an octane detune in diacom a couple years ago after returning from Wichita. Now for the good news if you feel that octane makes a difference. When I got my boat back to my lake after Midwest Regionals, I plugged in Diacom and there was no octane detune present and it easily hit the rev limiter. It picked up over 20 hours pulling Regionals, so the full tank of 93 octane it arrived with was long gone. Since nationals is at the same site this year, you can reasonably expect that the boat you ski behind at nationals is running 93 octane!

Best vest ever! No weight, doesn't puck up any water weight, and has STRAPS that buckle instead of zippers that open up when you need it the most! I would gladly pay double for a new one over the current "top of the line" vests!

Depends on the mount. The SkiDoc is 13cm.

@EFW I agree and wish it was available around me, but it isn't. That is the same issue some areas have with 93, not available in many areas.

I know for a fact that 93 octane makes a huge difference for high end jumpers and can back that up with Diacom files from 6.2's running in derate mode on bad fuel and the poor resulting MT speeds. For slalom at ultra shortline, I will have to defer to those that have a clue, as there is no data from ZeroOff that will indicate lower performance as MT speeds in jump will. Unfortunately I will never be in that ultra shortline league to have an opinion on the slalom feel, but I do believe those who are far above my ability level that tell me they are able to get free of the boat much better and gain a full pass on 93. Since the ZeroOff tuning on those engines was done on 93, it makes sense to me that they have been optimized for 93. A very interesting to me blind test would be with a 6.2 running 93, the same 6.2 running 87, and the same 6.2 running 87 but with + mode added to the skiers normal letter.

Yeah, a friend ran across one from 84 in good shape in a garage a couple years ago. It would be really hard to even remember all 40 of them:)

Another point to consider is gas aging. If you have a few hundred gallons of 87 octane gas delivered to your lake tank and it takes you a few months to use it all, your octane on the last of the fuel will be less than 87. I don't know how accurate it is, but I have heard a common estimate of losing one octane point per month when stored. Easy solution here is not have more delivered than you can use in a few weeks, but the costs of delivery per gallon will be higher with more frequent fills.

As I mentioned above, a couple beads of silicone is a super easy way to see the effects of additional hook.

@lpskier 220, 221, whatever it takes:)

I would start with moving weight around as mentioned above. If that doesn't help I would add hook not take hook away. You can simulate the effect by running a small bead of silicone at the area of the hook which will increase the hook. Believe it or not after drying it will stay on while you run the boat and simulate what the boat would do with additional hook. Once you find the amount that you are happy with you can duplicate the amount with fiberglass.

If it is going to be over a week before the next use, I turn it off (that almost never happens). Otherwise I leave it on. I have never had a battery run down.

Non alcohol is always good if you can get it. (I can't). If you don't hear it pinging on 87, it is probably fine, if it pings, bump up the octane or retard the timing, it will not adjust itself. I can't stress enough the safety factor on what everyone else has already said about fuel hoses. The original hoses on your boat were not alcohol resistant. Even the newer ones designed for alcohol in the gas eventually succumb. I have seen old hoses swelled up as big as my fist and leaking. A few drops of gas turning to vapor is a highly explosive bomb!

I certainly agree it depends on the engine and if there is no detected detonation and the resultant ECM detune, higher octane fuel has no benefit. The 6 liter engines I ran in my '03 through '16 Nautiques ran fine on 87 octane and never experienced a fuel de-tune reduction in timing that I was aware of. The direct injected 6.2's I have run from '17 to present are a different animal. Although the direct injection should make them less prone to detonation, because the fuel isn't injected until each cylinder is under compression and ready to fire, apparently the higher compression causes a need for the higher octane at max timing advance. Although they run fine with 87 octane, they are running in an octane detune mode and have significant timing pulled, resulting in a loss of horsepower. I was under the impression that for slalom only, 87 octane would be fine at the reduced horsepower, since the engines are extremely strong, just a little less strong on lower octane. Adam made a good case why this isn't true. Jump is the reason I ensure I am always on 93 octane. I don't want my boats to be in low octane de-tune mode with a lot of 87 in the tank when a good jumper comes over. Simply running all of the 87 octane out and putting in 93 isn't an immediate fix, as the ecm has to relearn and it may take a couple tanks to get all of the horsepower back, unless the battery is disconnected forcing a quicker relearn. Here is an example. At Regionals a few years ago, I showed up with my 6.2 Nautique full of 93 octane top tier gas and six 5-gal cans of 93. When checking in the boat I had a discussion and was told that the lake gas was 91 octane. I drove all over town and found that there was nothing above 91 octane available and decided to let them use lake gas on refills since I didn't have enough for the whole four days and I would use my 93 in my truck (same 6.2 engine). When it came time to pull the big 35 mph jumpers in the last event, bottom line, the boat was weak. Times were in, but not great. Power factor had to be cranked up to 7 instead of the usual 3 and MT speeds were down by approx 2 MPH. Immediately after the event I plugged in my Diacom and saw that it was running in a fuel de-rate mode with a LOT of timing pulled. (I believe the lake gas was way below 91 octane). When I got back to my lake I made a couple wide open passes to check top end with the same gas. The boat would barely run 43 mph in jump mode, gate all the way up. It usually would run 51.2 mph on the rev limiter. I topped off with 93 from my tank (It was about half full), put in a couple cans of Klotz octane boost, disconnected the battery for a couple minutes to force a re-learn, then pulled a couple slalom sets. I then went out and made another high speed pass. Ran over 51 mph. I then plugged Diacom back in and the de-rate was gone and no timing was being pulled. I believe that he boat was down at least 50 horsepower on the gas from regionals.

@AdamCord Finally someone who agrees with me! I have taken a lot of heat carrying my own gas to tournaments for my boats to ensure they get a steady diet of top tier 93 octane. I really wish there was someplace to get 93 non-alcohol in my area.