Bud Man

Good points also Ed, and I like your input.                                                                                                   I think when I get the videoing done; I will be able to show what I now see only in my mind’s eye.  This is what I picture: My path through the course during the middle four lines being almost the exact same with one overlaying the other and I believe the skier will be in the same place. The main difference will be where the boat is in the picture, and it is not because the skier had to ski up on the boat. It is only because the rope is shorter which put the boat in a different place.  We have been analyzing skiing from the boat way too long. We have to get out of the boat to ski, so we need to get our minds out of the boat as well.

Availability. I believe they quit making the RS-1 boots in 2009. I think 2010 ushered in the Strada boot. Â IMO, the RS-1s had a more firm shell and thicker lining. The Stradas seem to have a softer patch of rubber above the heel and thinner liners.

Those are very good comments. One thing Ed mentioned was form. He said; “I believe it is of paramount importance that everyone finds what works for THEM, and not just copy someone else's form.†I believe that he is so right. However, even thought there are a lot of different styles or forms, I’m more inclined now than ever before that there might be only one most efficient path, at lease for the middle four lines.  jayski mentioned; â€...the problem comes in that for a lot of people if they ski "narrow" they are unable to increase their requirements to succeed in the shorter line lengths.†He is so right. That is why for training purposes, we can ski some passes wider and harder than we need to for strength building, but we should realize that we should also ski that line length in an efficient path on other training exercises. Just like for example; we sometimes spin at the ends and ski repetitive passes without dropping to build up endurance. My point is that there are different training exercises, and skiing wider and harder than necessary, is a training exercise and not the way we need to always ski.  ShaneH, everything you said is totally correct, but in reference to the middle four lines (right now), where the boat is in relation to where you are, should not be much of a factor on the path of a skier. It is not the skier who is in a different place, it is the boat that is in a different place. This concept might be the most difficult for me to explain. It is kind of like those 3d pictures. I can see it, but how do I find the words to help others see it.  Imagine this: A skier rides through a slalom course on a jetski. The jetski enters the gates and exits the end gates in 16.95 seconds and has an average speed of 47mph. the jetskier travels the path that I think is the most efficient for a slalom skier. Surely he will add power at some points and bleed off power at other points between the turn buoys, but the average speed is still 47mph. Once you have that picture in your mind, add a ski boat driving through the course at an exact speed of 34.2mph. Now if the distance between the boat and jetski (when they were in line with the course) was to change between 14.25m, 13m, 12m, or 11.25m, would it affect the path of the jetski? My answer is no. There is no doubt that a snapshot picture including the boat and the jetski rounding a turn would give the perception that the jetski had to do something different to gain on the boat, but it would just be a false perception. I believe that it is that false perception that slows us from progressing.  We do not have a motor to push us through the course. The boat pulls us, and if we never made our ski deviate from the straight path that the boat travels, then we would never go faster than the boat. The boat going faster does not give us angle. However, as soon as we angle the ski, we increase our speed. Therefore, I believe it is angle that gives us speed. The ski angle also gives us our path. A longer path gives us a faster speed. It requires more strength to hold more angle, which gives us more speed and a longer distance to go through the slalom course, and I do not believe that is efficient.  It should take more than this description for everyone to see what I think I see, so please ask questions and add comments. I assure you that there is potential here for a lot of people to be helped or prove to me that I see it completely wrong.

Here is another illusion or misconception that a lot of skiers will not agree with at first read.  In reference to the middle four lines: I believe that most people perceive that as the rope gets shorter they have to GET UP ON THE BOAT FUTHER at the six turn buoys.  I say no to that and believe that by perceiving that will hurt your skiing and your progress. You only have to get your feet out to the buoy and the buoys are the same width out from the boat no matter what line you are skiing. People make a big mental block for themselves by thinking; “Wow, the handle doesn’t reach the buoy at 38 off.†That should not matter to the average skier, so don’t think of that as any sort of issue at all.  I want you to do this: Measure five feet out from a wall across a non-slippery floor, then stand at the five feet mark and stretch your arm out to the side and touch the wall. If you are of average height, you will see that it does not require but a slight lean. After doing this, you should realize that the handle reaching within six inches of the buoy is no longer to be considered an issue.  And, if you don’t have to GET UP ON THE BOAT FUTHER, then stop pulling so hard and overskiing you shorter passes.  At some point we will rule out a number of things that we thought made short line skiing harder, and if we do, then we are going to ski those shorter lines or ski them better.  I would sure like to see some opinions and questions.  My theory for the single most important thing that is affected by shorting the rope is t-----.

I don’t know about the Elite boots. This is not what you asked but I think the Strada might have a wider body than the Prodigy.

This message was whispered after my first post, so I will leave it anonymous, but I really like what the person said, so I hope it is OK for me to post it. If the person would rather me remove it please let me know and I will. (budlake1 at yahoo dot com) "Wow very cool indeed....... I like this kind of out of spectrum thinking you have here and tend to agree that you will expose the much needed eye for path and skill to accomplish it by. I am really looking forward to this........ " There is an old term that goes; “thinking out of the boxâ€. We are all going to have to “think out of the boat.†We have to get out of the boat to ski, so while you ski, visualize the true path, the one as we should see from overhead. Don’t let your mind get back in the boat where you see the illusion of swinging side to side like a pendulum.

Isn’t it harder to ski what you don’t see? I believe I see the course differently now than I used to, and I feel like it has helped me. I would like to help others if I can.  I do not keep up with basketball, but noticed a tournament on TV recently and thought of an analogy to share. Illusions can be created or revealed by camera angle. If you look at someone shooting baskets from directly overhead, it would appear the balls path was straight to the hoop. Imagine how long it would take you to perfect getting the ball in the hoop if that was the only angle you have ever viewed. We start watching basketball from a side view and quickly learn the path we are trying to get the ball to follow.  I believe that I, and most others, started watching slalom from the boat and we have a burned in image of a skier swinging side to side like a pendulum. I am inclined to think that this is possibly the biggest hurdle slowing skiers from learning and progressing with slalom. It has only been in recent years that most of us have even been able to see aerial views of slalom and those are from somewhat of an angle. I have yet to see a direct overhead view. It is this view that should help us the most.  It could be possible that some of the best skiers see the correct path and take it for granted thinking that everyone sees it that way. I can at least say; until recently, I never did, and now that I do, slalom is easier for me. I do not always think clearly when I ski and my brain jumps back to its old default of swinging like a pendulum and I do not ski as well. As time goes on, my feelings grow stronger that no pendulum physics fit slalom at all and picturing the swing hurts skiers.  I believe the boat pulls a skier through the course and if the skier realizes he is being pulled and can see the path he needs to take, the person will ski better. I do not believe the skier nor does the handle at any time follow an arc path like the swinging pendulum.  I have a lot to say, and a lot to prove. I would like to discuss all of this progressively, so I will not start with a long and lengthy post. I am working through all the details of doing direct overhead videoing and illustrating my theories of the ability of skiing the ALMOST same path and average speed at lines 14.25m through 11.25m. I will call them the middle four, and it is the middle four that most of my focus is on now.  Once I get into running the test, I will probably throw in 18.25m, 16m and possibly 10.75m and see if they fit into my theories. It is still a little early to speak on those three line lengths now.  I believe I will be able to prove that as far as the middle four lines, the line lengths do not force the paths and average skier speed to significantly change.  I should be able to measure distant traveled and speed more accurately when I take the aerial view and plot it on a grid. So far, I believe I have skied the exact speed from the gates to the one ball (1.46 seconds) on all the middle four lines. That should prove to be a slower average speed than traveled between any of the turn buoys. To clarify; at this point in my studies, I believe that the changing lengths of lines, of the middle four, are not forcing me to change my average speed from gate to buoy one and I believe that my average speed from the gate to buoy one is a slower average speed the it is between any of the turn buoys. I plan to compile and share all my theories and test to one paper, but until it is complete, if should be fun to discuss these theories.  I’m sure we are going to have different opinions on these theories, but do not let that stop us from sharing our points of view. So, what do you think?

Lowes and others might carry wing bolts and maybe even knob bolts. If not, could you form what you need with some type of epoxy? JB Weld stick maybe?

Lake Elmo Sports has some good stuff and some nice people. They have handle parts. http://www.lakeelmosports.com/product.php?productid=219&cat=39&page=1

I.          Change Display from MPH to KPH/Wakeboard only – If you wish to have the display read in metric or vice versa, you can move between modes by pressing and holding Menu & Down Keys together as you power up the system. After selecting MPH or KPH, press menu and it will ask if you wish to run Wakeboard only or three events. H.          System Reset – If you would like to reset the entire system to original factory specifications, you can do so by pressing & holding the ON/OFF & MENU Keys together as you power up the system. After about 5 seconds the display will show { System Reset ^ = Y } Press the up key to continue with a reset.          It will then ask if you wish to run in just wakeboard modes {Wakeboard only ^=Y}          The next question will be whether you wish to reset all your baseline rpm values. {Reset RPM @ ^ = Y } If you are happy with your baseline values, press the down key and your settings will be maintained. On some systems, you will be asked to select the engine in your boat.

John, You do not owe me any sort of apology at all. You have a nice project ongoing and I know that I could not begin to imagine all the time you put into critiquing, analyzing and working on BOS. I appreciate you allowing me to share the logbook that I put together. I hope that there will be a lot of input, suggestions or questions about the logbook. The power I see in the format that I used is its sorting capabilities.

I have my doubts on the florescent paint. I have not put the buoys out on the course yet but the overspray on the ground has already faded to white I think.

I’ll check later for pictures to post, but I put 1/2 gallon in the turns and 2/3 3/4 gallon in the gates I think. I'll confirm and let you know. I used a pump up gallon garden sprayer with a sport ball needle in the end. Here is update: I used ½ gallon in the turns and ¾ gallon in the gates. The reason I am using water in the gates is to balance to wind shift with the turns. I would not think there would be much difference in how much the wind displaces a buoy with all air verses partial water filled buoy, but it was easy to do, so why not do it and rule out the debate. There are a lot of ways to get the water in the buoys. I like the 1 and 1.5 gallon tanks to put the water in the buoys because they hold enough water and you can pump it thirty strokes and walk away and do other things while it transfers into the buoy. When you come back to it, you can push a few more strokes of air to size your buoy, and you are done. I also made a jig out of ¾†x ¾†wood to measure the turns and gates. If you are doing this in the shade you will want to stop shy about ½†to allow for expansion in the sun. The larger tanks cost about the same as the little ones that you have to hold the whole time you are filling your buoys, and besides them standing on their own, you only have to pump about thirty strokes verses hundreds of strokes. Another added bonus is; only cut a short piece of stem off to epoxy your needle to and you will be able to continue using the tank as a sprayer when you are not filling buoys. I am using the inflatable boat guides from skiertoskier.com for lanes and 55s. They also have a lot of neat miscellaneous stuff for setting up your course. (i.e. plastic clips, surgical tube, etc …) Good luck and have fun.http://ldifrq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pA_8pm9tV2RM8yC22keb_cKiDFlRAq4AZmBOuHLaNp0kHE8z1HbZ5t8ff7bxb_xI6QkUrrfJ2hJoDGdHz6HKjmWHh7kO0VbB0/pic59589.jpg?psid=1

Skoke, When I said; “since my ski is small and I ski slowly, I will not be as affected by fin settings.†I was referring to Paul telling me that I basically sink the ski into the water more at 34.2 mph verses riding more on top of the water at 36 mph. You are correct, I am not using ZO. I have PP Classic with a switch. KX normal, PX 10. I think I am going to bump up the PX to 15 and maybe 20, in hopes that that will be more in the direction of felling like ZO. But I could imagine that if it is not ZO then it is not going to ski like ZO.

Yes sir Ron, I do ride a 65†Strada 34.2 mph. I am 140 lbs and 5’ 10â€. I started with Rini’s numbers and they were great. I tried Goode fin numbers and they were great. I moved then to Rossi’s numbers and they are great. The only problem I have been able to identify so far with the ski, is the top of the ski as shown in the picture below. Or, to better explain it; the guy on top of the ski. Paul with http://www.jagersport.com/ talked with me about fin settings. And as I think I understood from him, since my ski is small and I ski slowly, I will not be as affected by fin settings. I think that is what he was saying. You should contact him. He is very nice and informative.  Check out this picture from today. My set consisted of 1-28, 1-32, and 10 -35s. I make a bobble at #2 buoy at 35 off as shown in picture and finished the pass. I finished all 12 passes with no missed buoys and that one pass really was my only bad pass. You can see the ski is doing what it needs to do. I am not. http://ldifrq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pkatmwl7A2EnbIkG-GcHCbkIncO_rmuTtAEJhEWc0I1rDhzBoURzpbrKCQ-u7PACU9CZNoEji95KMQhHVHhDx7TD16570uCyp/2%20ball%20blunder.JPG?psid=1

I used to put my insoles inside the liners. It worked great putting them on dry but very difficult to get them on wet without the insoles bunching up. I think it might have been Horton that said to put the insoles in the shell under the liner. I switched to that and compromised a slight bit of comfort, but not enough to even mater. If my memory serves me correctly, I took my first fall since I got them (about 6 months ago) yesterday where I needed to be ejected and it happened with both feet coming out evenly. I somehow caught my tip and lost the tail at the same time coming out of #4 off side buoy, and out I came. They worked great in that instant. My laces are NOT tight, just slightly pulled. Â You asked for hints. This is what I would suggest: put your insoles in the shells, then the liners in on top of the insoles, then feet in the liners. Slightly cinch the laces, get in the water and grab the tip of your ski. Pull your feet out to confirm they come out easily. Then hop back on the platform take your liners off of your feet and put your liners back into the shells and put your feet back in and then ski a slower speed than normal making small cuts free skiing to get the feel of a hybrid boot. Â I would not worry about heat molding unless you later feel it necessary to fix a discomfort issue. Â Good luck, enjoy and ski safely.

Jim, Jo was wearing an Eagle suit when you came to ski. She loves it and I’m impressed with it also.   Bmiller3536, If the spray from your ski hits the suit, it can cause what you are describing. Some people wear a large spray legging to protest the suit.

Alex38, I realize your post is about comparing turns in different sports, but I thought I might throw this in. Back in the 90’s and earlier, I think the school of thought for that old tech equipment was to turn fast. I remember demoing and buying a CDX1 in 2000 because it turned so fast. But now with the new tech equipment, I believe we do not want to turn fast. For me, breaking that old habit of turning fast is hard. My main focus in training right now is slowing down my turns. I think it is easier to get by with unnecessarily fast turns on longer lines, but the line gets past 14.25m the more important slow turns are.

I thought the only change was color. I love my 2010 with RS-1 boots. They are friendly people. Call then and know for sure. http://www.radarskis.com/#

John and I were talking about the Logbook today. He said, and I agreed that some people like a lot of data and some people like less data. He suggested to also offer a simple form with the fin settings on a separate tab. I thought that was a great suggestion, so I have added two more tabs to the spreadsheet. You will still have everything that is in the main Logbook, and you will find two more tabs at the bottom. One labeled “Short Form†and the other labeled “Ski Setup for Short Formâ€. You can assign a name or a number for a certain setup.

Good thought DW. I believe the option is already in my menu on the computer under Data/Filter options.  I don’t know about how it works on phones though.  Thank you for your input.

I have kept logbooks in the past on simple paper. I have also used Pro Ski Coach logbook. But they take too much time to search for specific information. With the format of this Excel Logbook, data can be searched or grouped to find anything almost instantly. You can find any correlation between performance and (equipment settings, different equipment, boats, drivers, controller settings, etc…) Again, the power as I see it, is in the sorting capabilities. I am also under the impression that you can edit this format logbook on iphones, Droids and of course your computer. Does anyone have any suggestions on this logbook? I did add a column for ski length.

TNh2oskier, You asked up above:  “With the strada set up, do the liners stay in the bindings all the time, or do you put the liner on, then your foot in the binding?†I have RS-1s, but I believe it is the same. 1)     Liners go in the boot first. 2)     Then feet in last. 3)     During an OTF fall, liners stay on feet and liners exit the boots. 4)     When I finish skiing, unhook laces and pull on tip of ski and liners come out. 5)     I always set my liners on the drive on guides on the trailer in the boat house to dry.

On Radar RS-1s for about 6 months was on Animals for 6 years. Animals cramped my feet year round and were cold in the winter. The RS-1s do not cramp my feet and keep my feet from getting cold in winter. I have skied with ice around perimeter of lake and feet were fine. I also think customer service is great. BTW, always double boots for me.

What happened lpskier? The hole in leg?