buechsr

The collinite product suggested is a good one. But there's no reason to be afraid of using a light abrasive if a cleaner won't take it off easily.

hutch, when did your buddy buy that boat? I've bought a new Malibu product every year for 5 years (and a lot more before that) and have hardly anything that slipped past QC. Methinks that boat lived a hard life prior to your buddy buying it. Not only do they have a qc team they can track who did what along the assembly line.

I actually already thought about reaching out to au, but have the next boat down to 3 frontrunners and I need another one soon. Kinda bummed.

deano, cheapest 200 on SIA is 35k w/ 1000 hours. I'm not saying one has never changed hands for 30, but there's no evidence of "early 200s getting to the 30k mark", which is what got stated. Orlando, I said I "think" he "could" sell it for 25 to "the right person", and that at 20k he would still be the cheapest ZO in the country. Since this project is being compared to a used 200, it's worth noting that there are (some) people out there who would prefer a ZO bubble back to a 200 straight up, let alone with a 10k difference. I'm one of them. I've had 2 CB Responses, 2 lxis, 2 LXs, a bubble back, and a 196 (I don't discriminate, much), but I would never buy a 200 (I'd never buy another 196 again, either). But, I would absolutely buy another bubble back, especially one with ZO. Does that mean everyone thinks like me? Of course not. But a ZO bubble back would be very appealing to a lot of people considering how many, rightly or wrongly, consider it the holy grail of slalom wakes. ZO is more important to tournament skiers than having the newest hull. They are already skiing behind brands other than their own. When the cheapest ZO boat in the country is 20k and has multiples of thousands of hours, it tells me something about the potential value, to the right person, of a new-engined ZO bubble back, in my humble personal opinion. Au, can you clarify something? Is your debate 3 options?: 1) replace with 351? (is it a Gt-40 now?), 2) convert to chevy using your instock 350 (and staying non DBW), 3) convert to chevy AND at the same time convert to DBW and ZO? I'm a little unclear after reading your original post. I think #s 1 an 3 the best. But to be sure, you are talking about true ZO and not perfect pass, correct? Your 2002 has already been converted to DBW and ZO?

Orlando, where are you seeing early 200s at the 30 mark? Onlyinboards has just 2 boats sub-40, both more than 1000 hours. In fact, there's as many 200s north of 60 as there are sub-40. Send link, please. That aside, what I said to OP was that I "legit think you could sell it for 25 to the right person". I stand by that. It would still be one of (if not the) cheapest ZO boat in the country, with a hull that is preferred by many over the 196 and 200. In fact, the only ZO boat that I'm aware of for less than 25 out there right now is Tom and June Asher's malibu. Go for it au!

I don't agree with the pessimism that you wouldn't get your money out of that conversion. Even asking $20,000, you'd have the cheapest zero off boat in the country, with a new engine, with arguably the best wakes ever. I legit think you could sell it for $25,000 to the right person. Most decent 196s with zero off are about 27-30 right now.

Am I the only person who sees a yoda-like face created by the reflection down course of skier?

Orlando, Good for your buddy. So be it. Everyone's happy. I bought it sight unseen, used it for about 2 years and 200 hours, and made money. Quite the opposite of one of my "stupid moves". :) I did have the carb looked at following your test, thanks for that suggestion.

Orlando 76, Wow, that guy sounds like a real idiot! I've never been called Joe Cool before...but I kind of like it. Your story stretches what actually happened, but was a fortunate outcome, I agree. For the board's edification, it was a 22 year old boat with about 1300 hours on a carbed 351. Boat didn't get sold across the country sight unseen (although I had someone who committed over and over to buy it from across the country, as it was in fact the cheapest bubble back in the country, had a new interior, and stargazer...but I digress), it got sold locally, after a test drive, to someone who paid more than your friend had the opportunity to buy it, who I actually talked to recently and loves it. So, actually, I appreciated your "bad report". :) ;) I'm not too proud to call these on myself: Same lake that Orlando came to, but at a friend's beach where he has "blown" sand out creating a "drop" for better trailer angle for launching. I needed to launch my vdrive and he tells me to use his beach, a few hundred yards from where I live. In any event, I neglected to scope the width of said hole. I get going back and sure enough my boat is listing at like 30 degrees....and my truck is coming back, and back, and back. Sure enough, trailer is only halfway into this hole. I don't mean this hole is a few inches deeper, its like a 6 foot cliff, and dragging me in it! When all is said and done, I've got 6 inches of water in my back seat, boat floated off virtually sideways, and 2 diesels had to get me out. Figured it was a good reason to change the tranny and diff fluid. Knock on wood, still runs like a top. I'm not proud of this one, but since we can all be self-deprecating, I'll tell it, briefly. A little off-topic, but was most certainly stupid. Had some coca-colas until closing time at an establishment on our lake. Plenty of moonlight for a barefoot run on the way home (on the boom, mind you, we didn't want to be unsafe). Since this was not planned, didn't have any barefoot gear so me and some buddies just took turns on the boom in our boxers. Seemed like a totally reasonable decision at the time. Of course, thinking this is a good idea to document, cameras are out and hand gestures are being offerred to the camera. Much like how Maverick greets the Russian Mig. In any event, I catch a toe and hang on, swing around, and stand back up. No biggie, I thought nothing of it at the time. However, while flopping on my stomach at 40 for a few seconds as I gathered myself, what I neglected to gather was my britches. So, unbeknownst to me at the time, upon my friends' realizing what had happened, they promptly tossed the rest of my clothes into the lake. A few hearty laughs, I drop, now realizing that I've got no boxers on. So, I get on the platform and ask my buddy for my shorts. Nothing but laughter. Finally, someone tells me the news. They're about a mile back. Now reality is setting in. I'm going to have to walk from my dock, under full moonlight, up to my house, with nothing. I scurry up (I think unnoticed by my neighbors) and think it's all over, and fall asleep next to my very understanding new wife...until..."WHAT THE F HAPPENED TO YOU LAST NIGHT?!!!!". Me: "Nothing, we were at ____, and came home". "Have you seen yourself in the mirror?!" This was around 6:00, so, the obvious answer was no, but intrigued, I made it vertical and examined myself. If you turned a 3 year old loose with magic markers for an hour they could not have duplicated the depth of color and square inch completion of my newly tatooed body. I was purple, green, and yellow, from my ear to my toes. It seems that the water texture was just perfect to have come close to removing my dermis. There I was, naked, discolored from head to toe, too embarrassed to speak. So, my wife spoke for me and broke the silence, "Guess you're not going to back to _____ with your friends any time soon are you?". "No, honey".

wish, can you provide some authority for that?

I was right! Ronnie and Lisa Frazier own insta-slalom. Great folks. Lisa always a big help for me.

I believe that might be the instaslalom folks' lake.

Does anyone know how well a 196 will fit on a 200 trailer? Thanks!

Check your pms. Would like to talk more.

This boat, as well as every echelon and response (and LX, but NOT Lxi) from 98 onward rode on the same hull (SV23 diamond). Cut diamond never made it to response or lx. While there was major interior redesign in '99, the diamond hull came out in '98. As for wakes, I've had 98, 99, and 05, and have loved them. golden era for lxi was 03-06. WBL, OP's boat was likely a better all around performer than the '10 lxi, which was not everyone's favorite.

David, did you used to have a black one with the same American Flag decal?

Correct me if I'm wrong on DI, but unless something has changed, fuel octane has nothing to do with its purity or cleanliness, or for that matter, supporting clean valves. Higher octane relates to its ability to withstand compression without pre-ignition. Internet says the 6.2DI is 11.5 : 1. That's quite high, and why it requires hi-test, not for cleanliness. However, I suppose a knocking engine wouldn't have as good of a burn, in which case it could have an indirect effect. My wife has 6.2 DI in her denali. Run nothing BUT regular 87. No issues at 75k. Am I missing something here on DI? As for the OP, I'd hazard that it's getting fuel blow by.

R, I think her height and weight would indicate her size of ski, but skill level is more determinative of a suggested model. Are her starts 100% and easy? how fast does she like to ski? turns consistent and symmetrical? Is she looking to get faster and better or enjoy the mornings and be able to make 100 turns? Or, is she already at 34 and running 28s? This season my monthly-skiing wife at 40, went from an Ho Siren (lyric comparable) to a radar butterknife. That allowed much easier starts, more consistent turns, more turns with less drag, took less to "engage" the ski coming out of a turn, and overall has had a much more fun summer. At 19, are those things different than a 40 year old, yes, but there's not a "rush" to go straight to a course ski, unless she is already a course skier. A lot of fun and progress can be had on modern "shaped" skis that ride really well. HEck look at the videos of radar skiers on the butterknife, katana, and union. They don't, nor your sister, need a vapor to lay it down.

Bruce, my wife has a 65" butterknife. Think that's a good ski for kids at extreme low speeds until they can get back into their Radar TRA? Brooks or Chris?

TDL, I agree. I used to have a 98 and its low speed wake seemed very small and clean, though never used for "this" purpose. chris, good idea. I'm not saying their form is perfect, but it's hard for anyone to work on form when you're getting significant air! Maybe I'll shut down the wakeboarding sets until legs become better shock absorbers?! as for boat expense, older boats are free if you buy them right!

I have an 07 that is ready for zero off (ECM already reflashed), with 50 hours on new crate engine (prior owner overheated original). 1050 hours on hull. Drives great. Very good condition. No vinyl tears or fading but for drivers seat which has some cracking. 2 owner boat (I'm #2). If want to talk more, PM me. Wasn't planning on selling but...everything is always for sale, I suppose.

yes I have hydrogate.

I bought a tumacs to the waterline cover this spring (not for an MC). Best cover I've ever had. Light, durable, waterproof. Not sure of availability for a PS.

wind, thx. My kids are 7, 9, and 11. The girls at 7 and 9 cannot help but get air with any significant cut at slow speeds, resulting in crashes and tears. I'm going to experiment with some different skis and try Bruce's double method, but my 196 wake is brutal getting below 26. Sure, 2 years from now could they handle it, be heavier and stronger, yes, but I'm just looking to make this transition as easily and quickly as possible since they've got some motivation right now.

fatroll, I now have a B/G 1 rope. esc, Thanks for the videos. I had a bubble back that I sold last spring. In looking back now at old videos and pictures, it's very clear that my 196 low speed wake is much, much bigger than the bubble back. In fact, talked to someone very reputable who confirmed that when the "real" 196 came out (TSC 2) the shaft angle was changed to improve shorter lines at the expense of longer. Not to mention weight differences and my TSC3 had the strakes removed from TSC2. Both anecdotally and physically, the TSC 3 is not a good low speed boat. I don't mind getting a second boat. When I know what I want, I shop hard and have experience with cosmetic and mechanical improvement and have always made money when I buy older boats, which is often. I only listed the direct drives I've used and flipped. I've done that with even more Vdrives. It's really not that hard to find good deals, do some work, use them, and profit. So, bottom line, I'm willing to buy another boat for this purpose as I've never lost, and usually make money. I really appreciate BRuce's suggestion on 2 skis first. I'll have a tough time selling that but I'll try. I would still appreciate some more opinions on first hand experience with the best low speed, however. TSC1 has some votes which I appreciate. early 90s MC? response? While an outboard is an idea, I have no experience with them and would like to stay in my comfort zone (not to mention have another option for me and my friends to use).