andjules

@Seneca If this is mostly about imagining the kids will want to wakeboard (and not about an adult crew of advanced wakeboarders), it's worth remembering that very few kids ever progress to the point of doing inverts (flips), and very few of those kids progress beyond the basic 3-5 inverts on a wakeboard. All those basic tricks can be learned on any inboard ski boat with a tower and a cheap ballast bag. I was in the same place about 10 years ago, and don't regret buying a malibu slalom boat with a wedge and a tower. We did lots of advanced-intermediate boarding (including inverts) quite happily, and wakesurf'd a couple of times, but I'm quite happy I didn't over-invest in something bigger. My 2¢.

@Ed_Johnson are you talking about a Response LXi?

In my opinion, there are two questions anyone needs to ask around crossovers: Put the following in your order of priority: slalom, wakeboarding, wakesurfing (add any other towed activities you care about, e.g. barefooting, tubing, etc.) How important is the V-drive interior layout to you (and your crew/significant other)? Obviously, by posting on a slalom forum, you're going to get recommendations that prioritize slalom. I personally think crossovers are one area where Malibus tend to stand out vs Nautiques and Mastercrafts (which tend to be favoured for one-discipline boats). From the introduction of the Wedge (1997?), Malibu has always been thinking about how to make a boat that can do a fairly good job of covering slalom to wakesurfing. My personal favourite (owned one for 4 years) is the Direct Drive '99-03 Malibu Sunsetter LXi. Great slalom boat given it's relatively large size, and with the wedge and some weight made for a very adequate wakeboard and wakesurf boat. If you do some google searches with the words "Malibu", "diamond hull", "slalom" and "VTX" or "VLX" you'll find some good discussions around the 'net on Malibu V drives that make for pretty good crossovers. The diamond hull is/was a variation on Malibu's hull design that had some lifting strakes at the outside edges of the hull: they only affect/diminish slow-speed wakes a little, but affect slalom-speed wakes significantly (in a good way). I'd advise you to stay to 20-21' boat if you want to ski; and to get a Malibu with a wedge if you want to wakeboard/surf without having to add a ridiculous amount of ballast to surf. And while I fully understand the advantages of a V drive's interior layout (especially when adding ballast), as a slalom skier, I'm obligated to advise you to stick to a direct drive if you can. While some V drives are better than others, there is no V drive that compares to a good direct drive when it comes to slalom.

as @mwetskier points out, you'd typically have an extended dock along with a marine railway. However, if you can modify your shoreline (which you obviously can, if you're considering digging out to put your dock in your property), you can take a different approach with a rail system: 1) starting at your existing shoreline, you can dig inshore a bit to recess a slope/ramp for your rail system. Most photos you see of marine railways extend well into the lake, but that's because they are usually installed so as to not interfere with a natural lake's shoreline, and as such, extend far into the lake at a manageable slope. By starting your slope a few feet in from shore, the rails needn't extend/interfere much at all. 2) beside your ramp, you could also slightly modify the shoreline so you can install a wide dock/platform at shore's edge (not a long dock extending into the lake). You can ride in your boat (or use ropes) as it comes off the rail system, then park broadside at shore's edge, as long as you give your boat 2-3' of depth. That would make it convenient for your ski partners hopping in & out.

@aspski you're thinking of the PanAM Games 2015, in Toronto.

@MDB1056 I vaguely remember skiing behind a Hydrodyne sometime in the late 70s. My only reference back then would have been the Canadian JCraft outboards that I posted on the first page of this thread. I recall the Hydrodyne having a better (bigger) trick wake, a little bigger slalom wake (vs JCrafs; but smaller than inboards of the time, at least at 28-30mph). And yes, they were ugly! Still popular in the showskiing world.

@"Pat M" I think everyone gets back on their tails when they get in trouble (/too much speed) in the moguls. I don't think my waterskiing has anything to do with it; it's just bloody hard to train your brain to lean (even further) forward while going down a steep bumpy hill while going too fast. (And Bode Miller's off-hand comment about waterskiing was probably just Erin getting back on her skis and likely nothing to do with her waterski instincts at all)

Beautiful boat, although I always felt it needed more of antique split-style or a european-style windshield to really capture the wooden-boat vibe.

As long as we're having a geeky discussion about binding systems... what about height? Some binding systems have the skier's foot pretty much on the ski's top plate; others create a 1/2 inch of separation. I've always been intuitively turned off by systems that add height, but (not having experimented) I don't know if it actually makes a difference? Does it make lateral movements even more (noticeably) sensitive? Anyone care to comment?

@adamhcaldwell right, I suppose I mean that decades of ski marketing has (over?) emphasized the importance of "generating incredible angle", so much so that we imagine pointing 90º from the boat is the ultimate goal and the means by which we'll get "wide and early", while under-emphasizing how we transition that cross-course angle from the CL to the apex.

@cragginshred this thread

@wish @adamhcaldwell those are some interestingly counter-intuitive (and counter-ski-culture) thoughts. Reminds me of something Chris Rossi wrote a long time ago about not trying to ski an unskiable path.

I haven’t seen too many Moomba boats in the Australian market There's something perversely ironic about that

@flanker978 In joining this site, you've essentially joined a community of ski nerds, it's kind of like joining a sports-car enthusiast club: most people politely admire each other's boats, but everyone has lots of opinions (and knowledge) on tiny stuff that makes a huge difference to them, but maybe not to you. So to answer your original question, kinda yes, as long as you don't buy a big wakeboarding boat, you're going to be in a good spot. Will you notice differences between several good ski boats? yes. Will they make a huge difference to your skiing and improvement? you can convince yourself they will (most of us have), but most likely they will not. Back to the minutae: - yes, the Prostar 205 went from a pretty good ski boat (95 and earlier) to a hybrid wake/ski boat in 96 and later. - yes, Malibu Responses are good boats. Even the ones before 98. But yes, the ones from 98 on are a bit nicer for slalom, even at intermediate speeds. I'll also point out, given that you've got kids, that if you find a Malibu with a "wedge", it allows you to stop and switch your boat from 'skiing' mode to 'wakeboarding' mode, which your kids may care about as they get older (depending on how young they are and how long you want to keep your boat). - there are lots of other great inboard ski boats, too. If you see some good deals in your neighbourhood, feel free to post them, but of course realize that it may be difficult to sort through our nerdy and passionate micro-opinions. We may end up discouraging you from buying a perfectly acceptable boat. On the other hand, we'll at least keep you from buying a terrible wakeboard boat. Good luck!

Awesome! @schafer how much $/set?

Tricky one. Hydrodyne inboards are neither well-known nor lusted-after, while at the same time, are arguably very good boats. What that means is that is that it might be worth more to you than to anyone else; it's not a great market to sell into. There are plenty of Mastercraft enthusiasts out there, so the market is comparatively better to sell into (more so if you restore, but only if you are able to restore it economically).

@Fehlindra that's what they used at World's in Paris, but it didn't seem to work as well as in that video...

In the last few years, I've started taking my sky with me to different parts of the world. If it weren't for language and work — in other words, if I had enough money that it didn't matter — I'd seriously consider Italy. For everything else first (culture, food, etc.), skiing second... but there seem to great clubs/lakes well-placed throughout the country. The same could probably be said for France. A little further south, there's a great club 30 minutes from Madrid, Spain, or another an hour from Lisbon, Portugal.

And tubing is like a rollercoaster. It can be thrilling, fun and exciting. But there's a reason there's no World Championships of rollercoaster riding. Practice doesn't make you better (unless you're the driver).

It pains me to suggest this, as I love slalom and am completely uninterested in tennis, but... slalom & tennis: have a rhythm, the timing comes "at you" (you don't control when to shoot or not shoot, like in basketball), and the average "unit of effort" is about 20-30s (including the pull out), followed by a break to re-group. While there is a rhythm, that doesn't mean you can't find yourself in a frantic scramble.

"Quiet" is relative, of course. But on the over-developed east coast, I like Delray Beach, which puts you within (depending on highly variable traffic) 30-ish minutes of Chet's and McGinnis (and Okeeheelee, if you know someone there). Southwest Florida is better at quiet, but is a little trickier for skiing as you're generally limited to Eden Lake (maybe 40 minutes in good traffic from Bonita Springs, which I assume is a little quieter than Fort Myers Beach) or McCormick's (50-60 minutes from St Pete Beach (which is perhaps more "quaint" than "quiet").

@MuskokaKy and of course you could probably flip it in overpriced Muskoka for a modest profit, even after exchange, taxes and fees... although it can be a tough market for closed-bow boats. Ontario cottagers love their bowriders!

@MuskokaKy if you get it, I'll be happy to help you christen it next spring ;-)

Wow, I owned 4 of those and got to ski another 2. @Horton the one that makes me hesitate is the A1 - might have been more influential on the West coast? But as you say, it's DNA lives on. Radar's green 14 Vapor seemed to be a bigger hit up here in central/eastern Canada.

@MuskokaKy Good call, I thought about buying this and importing it too. I imported 3 inboards between 2010 and 2013. There will be no duty/customs but you'll need to pay HST on a believable and documented sale price, both boat and trailer — you'll want separate bills of sale for both, and interestingly, they are much stricter about the trailer than the boat (you may need to fax the trailer docs to the US border to allow you to legally export it, etc.). You'll also face trailer inspection fees and licensing fees on both boat and trailer, obviously. It's getting a bit old, but this webpage is the one to study (including comments in recent years).