Weed Control

[jedgell]

We're having a huge problem with milfoil at our lake.  By July it gets to the point that you have to make 6 passes through the course to create a path so the ski doesn't get caught in it.  The prop gets all wrapped up also.  The other problem is that the owner of the lake doesn't want to use herbicide to take care of the problem.  The ice just came off and all the weeds are at the bottom, they usually don't start growing until mid to late May.  So my question is, will dyeing the lake early in the year when the weeds are at the bottom of the lake help?  I know it's good prevention, but with the lake already infested I have a feeling we'll just be wasting our money.  Carp aren't allowed in Montana, so we can't go that route, legally anyway.

As a side note, we've been skiing since the first weekend in March.  Weather's been in the 50's and 60's, water mid-40's, not bad for MT this time of year, bring on the global warming!

[RichardDoane]

The Broho can get pretty weedy, but the lake owner has been dying the lake already, the fish are starting to get active, and if the weeds get too heavy, we drag and rake 'em ashore.  Lee doesn't want to poison the weeds, just use fish and dragging/raking.  It can be alot of work, but every season the problem gets less and less.  Washington allows the neutered carp, but at $10. each they can be pretty expensive Eagle snacks.

[T-UP]

We dye our lake early spring and try to keep the visibility at around 2', if the sun can see the bottom the milfoil will grow. We have grass carp, but until we started keeping the visibility at 2’ the milfoil took over. In late August we would have to run the boat up and down to clear a path and the lake looked awful.

[lpskier]

I have weed control. My kid brings it home and if I find it, I take it away.

[jedgell]

How do you drag the lake?  Do you hook something up to your boat?  I'm thinking we'll have to do something like that.

[RichardDoane]

Lee strapped a bunch of metal fenceposts together, to make a drag that's about 18 feet wide. The tow rope has a bridle that splits to about 5 connections so that it'll stay square to the dragged direction, and not want to fold up. The tow rope is an old ski rope that's maybe 50' long, hooked on the pylon of the Mastercraft. He'll drag it along the bottom just above idle speed until the amount of weeds in tow slow the boat considerably, then tow it towards shore. We toss the rope, pull it ashore, and pull off the weed collection by hand, and rake it up the bank. Once it dries out a little, the wheel barrow brigade heads it to the woods for composting. I'll search for the past discussion, and revive it. There's a picture of the "apparatus" for dragging millfoil.

[RichardDoane]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_I-Kt0bXum5I/S6MFv8PP6GI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/6GW6QLVYgb0/s800/Millfoil.Rake%20%28Medium%29.JPGFrom Cool course Pics

It looks like there's 7 ropes for the bridle, and 5 metal pieces.  The thin piece of metal attached to the leading edge was supposed to help "cut" the weeds, but doesn't do anything.  The weeds just build up.

 

[jaredH20]

Our lake used to get weed alot. So much so that it was right up near the surface of the water. 1st i would recommend getting some grass carp. And a poison called mid stream, it doesnt kill the fish and works within a week to two. We also have been experimenting with a under-water hedge trimmer. This works the best for lilies and water hycan. Its the quickest way to get rid of the weed

[skiep]

Aquacide Pellets or Renovate OTF from SePro  WWW.lakelawnandpond.com

[Old MS Accout]

We eliminated the milfoil in our lake with sonar and reward. We cannot use grass eaters in Minn. You could spot treat the heavy areas that are a problem with a contact product like Reward. It kills any weed it touches. You could spray it with a small sprayer and the guy may never know you did it.  

[jedgell]

Thanks for the tips guys.  Definately have to look into the Reward product.  I've talked with the owner and he hasn't wanted to drag the lake in the past, maybe we can change his mind.

[Gern Blanston]

MS -

 can you please tell me more about sonar and reward?

Aquacide an be obtained from www.killlakeweeds.com  I've had mixed results with that.

I currently have a cutter.  It's a Y shaped blade with a 5 foot handle and rope attached.  On the outside of the Y are razor blades.  You throw it out and drag it back.  As you drag it, the razors cut the weeds.  It works well enough to clear my frontage but not the lake in general.  Those weeds that don't stay on the blades drop to the bottom where they create muck and potentially grow again.

[Steven]

Justin,

If you can talk him into dragging the lake, you could easily pull from one side to the other down the body of the lake using his tractor or a 4 wheel drive. You've definately got the room on either side of the lake!

 Steve

[boarditup]

Milfoil primarily spreads through plant fragmentation and not seeding.... You have a temporary opening, then it will get worse.

Dye, Sonar, or 2,4-D are the best.

 

[Old MS Accout]

Gern,

The more you cut milfoil down, the faster it spreads to other areas of the lake. We raked for a year and the next summer it was everywhere. Last summer we bought a gallon of Sonar, dumped it in the middle of the lake (2250X300 with average 5 feet). After 2 weeks it looked like it was slowly working but we had tons of the weed in the lake. We waited another week and you could tell that the weeds were feeling the Sonar (they were turning a lighter color) but it wasnt dropping. We maybe could have used another 1/2 gallon. We talked to the lake weed experts here and they said if we wanted to give it the 1-2 punch we should hit what was left with Reward. We have a 25 gallon spray mounted to the boat and made a few trips up and down making sure to hit what we saw. In 3 days, every single weed in the lake was gone. We went from choked to nada in about a month. I was worried that we would not have enough O2 under the ice this winter but the fish made it.

If you are on public water, you need a permit to use a sonar product.           

[jdarwin]

I second the Sonar - then add fish to maintain.  The more you rake and disturb the plant, the more it spreads.  Sonar is a great product but is VERY expensive.  $3500 to treat my 10 acre lake 3 years ago.  But with the fish added afterward, no problems since.

[Gern Blanston]

thanks, MS.  Yes, I'm on public water and I'm aware I'd need a permit.  The tend to look the other way if you want to treat your shoreline with aquacide, however.  "Oh, I spilled some aspirin"  the lake is over 500 acres, so there's no way we'd all pay for Sonar for something that large.  We have 3 cutters that work 2 shifts to keep the lake clean.  The hand cutter that i have is used predominately for the celery weed that grows near my pier.  That's supposedly a "good" weed so I don't want to get rid of it.  I do want my kids to be able to swim, however.

[Old MS Accout]

Hit what you dont want with a contact Herbiside like Reward. It is safe and only kills what it hits. It is not like sonar that stays in the water for months and works it way to the root of the plant. If you spot treat with reward it would be cheaper the the pellets from Aquaside. They are a Minnesota company and I would love for you to buy the product but reward is cheaper and works quicker.   

[DW]

Reward works well, you can also use Copper Sulphate (pellets or powder), that works reasonably well and seems to be more avaialble.  The weed that seems to be reasonably decent because it is like a carpet and relatively low is Chara.  Milfoil and Chara battle each other for supremacy.  There is a new weed invading our lake that looks like Chara but grows taller and is a problem.  Also harder to treat and I don't remember the name.

You want the most favorable weed in the key location, because if you have nothing, the most invasive species will root and take hold in the barren soil.

[jipster43]

Hey Jedgell!  I'm in Bozeman.  Where in MT are you?  What lake are you skiing at?

 JP :)

[jedgell]

Jipster,

I'm in Missoula.  We ski at a private lake by St. Ignatius.  It's an awesome site, the only problem is the weeds from June - Sept.  Are you skiing in Manhattan?  I talked with Ty last year, I'll have to make it over there to ski some time this summer.

[jipster43]

I'd love to ski Manhattan, but I don't have any contact information to get permission.  I keep my boat about 10 minutes from there.  If you get out this way look me up.

 JP :)

[bgturf]

 

 There are many ways to attack this issue.

Fish do a great job. Grass Carp work well in areas where they are permited. California is a tough state to get a permit. Other states I do not believe there are many restrictions. The down side of Grass Carp is that they eat only a couple of species of weeds and many time other weeds come in and become dominate. When they devour all of the weeds they still need to eat so many will feed them grass clippings to keep them alive. Catfish also help by keeping the bottom stirred up. I think they disrupt the root system. So a few Catfish in a pond are a good think.

Sonar is a great herbicide. There needs to be caution when using Sonar. It has to be kept in the pond. If the water is used for irrigation it becomes a plant killer or hopefully only reduces the plant growth until the plants can out grow the effects. Many times I have seen huge Algea blooms after the use of Sonar. Sonar works better when it is evenly dispersed in the lake. I think it gets tied up in the organic matter suspended in the water if it just applied down the middle of the lake.

Copper based herbicides are really a quick burn down of the weeds. They work  but most of the time the weeds are back about the time you get the sprayer cleaned up.

 Blue Dyes work well, they work as a prevenitive program along with using Direx anlong the shore line when the lakes are lowered in the Winter. Dyes work best when they are injected in the fill water. The the dispersion of the material is about 40% more efficient than pouring it into the lake behind the boat. Keeping the density of the dye super high in the spring and as the summer rolls on the density can be allowed to open up to allow some sunlight to 2-2.5' deep. The dye will supress weed and algea growth.

There is not a silver bullet for weeds and algea. Prevention is the best way.