New boat hits the market

[Old MS Accout]

I have heard that there may be a new CB boat to hit the market and will be shown at Nationals.

Sounds like there is a company that will attempt to cash in on the vacant small CB boat market that was left open when the 196 was no longer being made.

It sounds like the boys out west have been running some big scores behind it in development. Horton, have you heard anything?   

[Horton]

News to me but I think they should take a 91 MC and copy it exactly

[Old MS Accout]

All the D3 guys have been testing it

[jdarwin]

If they can offer a good, solid boat that performs on par with the big 3 for a reasonable price (>$35k), they might survive.  Otherwise, the memory of Infinity will haunt them.

[kstateskier]

Someone should dig up the old Supra Comp slalom hull.  Build it completely out of fiberglass and put a Fuel injected 330hp motor in it and you'd probably have the best slalom boat on the planet.  91 MC would be just as good!

[Horton]

Infinity was the best slalom boat ever- if u got a good one. I guess there were some complaints but I ski behind one a lot and it is my all time fav

[clemsondave]

Wasn't there one recently from a company called Standard Boat Company or something?

[eyepeeler]

Bring back the Response LX! 

[jdarwin]

Horton - the 22-off wake on the Infinity was HORRENDOUS!  We pulled it from use during the junior events at our Regionals.  Partly due to the wake issues and partly due to availability - no one had skied behind it.  Infinity sold a total of 52 boats over it's lifespan.  The year they pulled Regionals and Nationals they sold 13 - yes, that's right, 13 boats!  The hull was made be Gambler Boats in Florida.  The interior was out-sourced somewhere else.  Infinity would take all of the various components from various suppliers and try to fit them together.  Not a recipe for success.  Some may have thought it was the best slalom boat ever but unfortunately, there weren't enough of them opening their wallets to keep them in business.

[Old MS Accout]

I was not an Infinity fan.

[Horton]

The one I ski behind is LOVED AT ALL SPEEDS AND ROPE LENGTHS by all. Beyond that one boat i believe u.

[eyepeeler]

Hey Scot, Thank you, I know the RLX is still available, I would like to see it as Malibu's promo once again.

[toothboy]

I own a 1999 Infinity ZX-1. Love the boat, but did not know there we so few out there. I have been tempted to buy another one and keep it as a back up. You just cannot beat the interior room. 22 off is and issue, and my boat did not have the "wake defectors" installed. Any one have some for sale?

[LakeOneSkier]

http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&postid=12287

[MattP]

LakeOneSkier- that is one good looking boat!

[rodltg2]

I have th sv one/infinity for sale above . If anyone wants it, I have it for sale at a smokin deal. I'll take $21,000. Interior is much more improved over the Infinity. Ill agree 22 off bump is tough

[rodltg2]

BTW, word on the street Centurion is building a new 3 event boat. Dont know if thats the same one your talking about though.

[LakeOneSkier]

Rod,

 

$21K! Wow, that's a hell of a deal. I"ll pass that on to a few neighbors.

 

Clay

[Old MS Accout]

Check it out.

[Chef23]

It is cool that there is a new 3 event boat coming to market.

[Andre]

I agree with Chef,very refreshing for the sport to see Centurion coming out with something new for skiing.

Let's see the price tag of that new technology...

[Old MS Accout]

From what I know it will be well below the big 3.

[jdarwin]

Will Bush driving - Terry Winter skiing - should have had some good input in the design both from a driver's and skier's perspective.  If they can move into the market in the mid 30's with a solid performing boat, they could take some market share.

[Chef23]

I do think they need to have an open bow version. Without that it will be tough to take market share.

[DW]

It will be interesting to see how they keep the price competitive given the price of carbon weave or make enough profit to keep it in the linep.  It is good to see a new boat on the market and one that is at least experimenting with carbon materials.  It will be interesting to see what the boat weighs and how it performs.

[skibug]

It is all good for the consumer (us skiers) to drive down the price of the "Big 3" as long as it performs and it can be approved for tournaments.  Heck, I might even take one site unseen as unhappy as I am with our 09 MC 197 wakes at 22 and 28.

[Than_Bogan]

What REALLY matters is:  How wide is it!?

The latest generation from all 3 manufacturers has finally surpassed the width of the teensy tunnel that you have to go through to access our ski lake.  As of this moment, there is NO new tournament boat I could consider owning.  You may be able to imagine this is causing me some concern, although my 2006 Nautique should have quite a few more years of life (I hope!)

More generally, I definitely like the idea of using more carbon fiber in boat design.  Trick skiers may not love this fact, but obviously a lighter boat has the potential for a smaller wake (all other things being equal).

I'm a little confused how they expect to do this at a significantly lower price than the competition, though.  Carbon fiber ain't cheap.

Finally, an opportunity for a little rant:  Open bow shmopen bow! /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif  I really don't see the appeal of that.  People always say "family boat," but no way would I allow my small children to sit up there in those shallow seats while doing anyting interesting with the boat.  And I have more need for storage space than for seating space anyhow.  Finally, maybe it's just my imagination, but I swear I can't drive as good of a boat path with an open bow.  But in the end, I must admit Chef is right: The market wants Open Bows, even though I can't figure out why, so they'd be cutting off a big segment if they didn't make one.

P.S. Web search is turning up NOTHING about this -- I can't even find it mentioned on Centurion's own web site.  Anybody got any other info or links?

[Boody]

I didn't realize that was Bush, Winter and I think Tyler Yager.  It also looks like Shortline Lake in Sac.  That certainly adds some legitimacy to it, we will have to see how the wakes are and the quality. 

But it does point to the fact that the wakeboard boat industry is hurting more than the slalom boat industry.  SN200 is Correct Crafts highest selling boat as well.  The return of the slalom boats! 

[Old MS Accout]

I cant wait to take some rips behind the boat.  

[bhs]

Correct Craft has sold more 200s than any other boat in their line up? Thats hard for me to believe. I sold Correct Crafts back in the 90s and we probably sold 10 sports for every ski. After I left in 99 the dealership just stopped bringing in skis unless they were ordered. They sat on a closed bow ski for 3 years before they gave it away....

[jdarwin]

Important fact:  CC forced every dealer to order at least one 200.  I know the Houston dealer sold 5.  Even still, hard to believe it outsold some of their crossover boats.

[ForrestGump]

The dealer JD references sold 5 to retail customers plus 2 promo's. They sold 30 wakeboard/crossover nautiques during the same period. 

[Boody]

SN200 is the best selling boat, not beating the wakeboard boats as a whole. Info from the CC tour I took in May.

 

This was consistent with the majority of 200s in the factory. Believe it or not.

[east tx skier]

jdarwin 2 hours ago  

Important fact:  CC forced every dealer to order at least one 200.  I know the Houston dealer sold 5.  Even still, hard to believe it outsold some of their crossover boats.

 

 

Somehow, the Tyler dealership got around ordering one, but I heard about that mandate from cc.

[Jim]

CC, Malibu and MC have all just recently, since 06, invested in larger manufacturing facilities. How much of the cost of a new boat from those companies is tied directly to the costs of paying for those factories ? They built on the myth of ever expanding sales and then the bottom fell out. High volume factories and low sales numbers means high boat prices and that leaves the door open for a low cost manufacturer to step in. I have no clue what kind of shape Fineline industires is in but if they are not hung with a new factory they could make it happen. Seriously, what is the actual cost of a new boat? Has to be significantly less than 50 percent of the consumer price.

 

Why not a Ski Centurion? They've made 3 event boats before, not real good ones in my opinion, and from what I hear the boarders like their wakeboard boats. PCM drivline means the same quality as you're getting n a CC, so as the owner of many 196's who is not overly thrilled with the 200, I say bring it on.

[ForrestGump]

I won't say what a nautique dealer makes, but a car dealer would kill for the margin they make on new boats.

[Jim]

I can't begrudge a dealer for making a good margin on a boat, after all how many do they sell? 20-30 (ski/wake) per year for a large dealer? My question is what does the manufacturer make? Has to be more than the dealer and if you have a brand spanking new high capacity factory running below 60% capacity the costs have to be astronomical. A manufacturer with low overhead might be able to come in and scoop the market if they had a quality product. Will be interesting to see what the pricing is on the Carbon Pro.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Just a little devils advocate here.  Gekko built (builds?) an awsome slalom boat in that price range.  World class wakes, easy to drive straight etc, no one bought them because they weren't a "Big 3" boat.  What's gonna change here to make the slalom boat market now embrace another non-Big 3 boat regardless of how killer the wake/pull is?  Just saying.

Ed 

[Jim]

Pretty sure Gekko went bankrupt and is no longer making boats.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say tight credit for the foreseeable future might make the difference. Lots, maybe a majority, of the boats sold in the past were financed. Easy credit drove the market, easy credit that is now gone. Financing, if available is going to be stricter and require a higher down payment going forward. Might make the difference this time around.

[Steven]

I was speaking with the top sales person for Malibu the other night. He said the margin per boat for the manufacturer (in Malibu's case) is pretty decent. But the retailer is really taking a hit right now with the financing options being nearly non existant. He normally sells 18-20 boats in July. This year he sold 2. He had a lot of people trying, but couldn't get them financed. He told me that he had a deal fall thru with a guy who had provable income of 400k and was putting 50% down and the bank wouldn't bite because this guy was in the real estate industry. Crazy! He did say that Malibu is still strong financially. That's good to know. 

[Than_Bogan]

can't help mentioning:  Banks are DUMB.  It shocks me that just a few years ago they'd lend money that any idiot knew was only gonna be paid back if you broke somebody legs, and NOW they won't lend somebody about 10% of his annual income!!  Complete cluelessness.  If anybody in the banking industry can explain this or disagree with me, I'll read with an open mind.

[Jim]

thanimal

They're not dumb, the circumstances have changed.

Banks were lending OTHER peoples money freely before the collapse. Banks acted as brokers and as a result had no skin in the game. Loans were packaged, sold off as triple A securties by firms like Goldman, who were on the side betting they would fail by purchasing derivatives, and when they did fail the bottom fell out of the economy.

Why are banks being so stingy now? Because banks now have to lend their OWN money the rules have changed. I know a couple of small town bankers and they have to triple check everything to make sure all of the "t"'s are crossed and the "i"s are dotted. It is a new world in terms of consumerism and lending, the days of easy credit are gone forever. Boats are a fringe luxury item and a risk for banks. Cash is king and 50-60K 3 event boats and 100K wakeboard boats are now out of the range of most consumers.

[Steven]

My dad is a banker, their bank has no issue lending money to anyone who is a good risk. They never got caught up in any of those "funky" loans and there fore never had to rely on the govt. to bail them out. For them it's business as usual. Like Jim said, things have changed in a big way!

[boarditup]

Gekko was bought by Centurion - Fineline.  I am sure you can still get one, inexpensively.  Great boat for the cash.  I owned one for a while.  Lots of upturned noses from the big 3 fans.  However, it drove and skiied great.  I would bet that Mark Overbye is behind the new boat and it is a further refinement of the Gekko hull.  The press release has some Gekko-ish details (carbon fiber one of them).

[LakeOneSkier]

My neighbor has a '99 Gekko, built by Fineline Industries. Not sure of entire Gekko life story but I think they were bought by someone in MN, maybe Canada, went bankrupt, and now being made by Fineline again. You can still get a Gekko for $30k.

 

As Karl states its a great boat; excellent pull (has stargazer), tracks very well, wakes are decent if a little hard at 22. I agree that it is looked down upon by some of the more snobbish 3 eventers in the 'hood. As for me, I set PB's behind it as often as I do behind my 'Bu and another neighbors MC.

[Than_Bogan]

Steven and Jim -- Thanks.  Interesting additional info.

[Old MS Accout]

I know Mark well and he is involved in Centurian. It is prime time to crack the big 3 with a boat like this. Timing in the past was not good due to the 196. American Skier almost did it but the boat did not drive well though it did ski great. Price tag will be the factor. If it is low, they have a chance. 

 

 

[Not_The_Pug]

I like the idea of more competition with boats.  A better price is always good as long as the boat has a good wake for Slalom & Tricks and quality workmanship.  I don't want a boat that I don't have a chance of skiing behind in a tournament, more for tricks then Slalom, that is why I only look at the "big 3".  I want to get a new boat, but the price of the new one's keep putting me off, mine current one is paid for.

 Kevin

[Jim]

I imagine that the success of the Carbon Pro from Centurion will hinge largely on pricing. Nobody is going to pay more for a Carbon Pro than the cost of one from the Big 3 for a new boat. If they can get it to tournaments, do a good job with fit and finish and most importantly get the cost under a similarly equipped MC, Malibu or CC then it just might happen. I'm hoping they make it work, competition makes the breed stronger and more innovative. PCM powertrain is a great way to start.

[ktm300]

They need to be willing to make a market for the boat. Meaning that they, not the consumer, have to eat the $ that will be the resale loss. They need to sell it cheap and support it with a jam up promo program. Even if it is the best of the tournament boats, there will be a lag time before resale catches on.