future of our sport

[6balls]

I believe the price of entry is severely limiting growth of our sport...it's getting harder to compete w/out a pricey ski and training behind ZO on controlled conditions.  How many kids coming up who are NOT kids of comp skiers have a chance?  How many comp skiers have kids who don't have the same interest as their parents?  Where will the next generation of skiers come from, and how will they afford the price of entry granted my income level struggles w/same (I do pretty well)? 

I'm in M3 presently, my bro in M4, and both divisions are very competitive.  One of the things we notice, though, is the very low numbers of Men II and Men I skiers...when we were there the same guys we compete against now were there as well.  How do we get the youth rolling when we have become a high dollar, private site enterprise?  When I was M1 I trained behind a hand timed outboard and showed up at tourneys doing reasonably well...not really possible today.

6 

[UTWaterSki]

There is a pretty strong collegiate scene, but almost all of the skiers that have graduated from my team have pretty much quit the competitive scene simply because of lack of access. Most of them have no clue that they can look for clubs with boat shares and reduced annual costs from shared members. I feel like if there was more knowledge at the collegiate level about how to carry on with the sport in the years right after graduation where the budget is still tight, that would be a great source to beef up the M1/M2 divisions. I just hate seeing all these people work so hard in the sport for 4 years to simply free ski 3 or 4 times a year after they graduate.

[Nick Sullivan]

I think this is something Marcus Brown has tried addressing a few time on his show. Its a tough subject and I don't know the answers either. I heard one of the guys on the Edged In Water 2 make the comment when they were in California that this was the first time he had ever free skied. Wow, how would a guy who has only been skiing a few years on open water ever compete with someone who has grown up on a private ski lake?

 One thing that looks promising for me is that there are several families at our lake and all parents are in their 30's and we all have kids (6 months to 4 years old) who so far love the water. The lake is a zoo when all the kids are there and everyone is pretty excited about what the future holds for Mint Lake.

[MattP]

I agree the cost of the sport for us M1 skiers is astronomical. I agree with UTwaterski M1/M2 skiers just do not know how to get plugged back into skiing after they leave school and usually can not afford the cost of travel and tournament fees on top of those student loans. Then when they get "older" and find the sport again and are not as strapped for cash. I think that is why M3/M4 have a larger

I have gotten tired of fighiting the wally's on the public water as well as the DNR over the last 10 years.  Some people disagree with my thinking but I want a private lake where I can go and ski at any time of the day and be there with people who feel the same about our sport. Luckily I have found one that is within a reasonable distance to me.  Marcus Brown's push off of private water kinda bugs me. I am all for promoting the sport and I tell every one I can what I love to do and that I will take them out and teach them to ski.

As far as college skiing goes I am working on starting a team at my college, Kennesaw State University, it is the 3rd largest school in Georgia. I have gotten everything worked out with the school and with a local club. Now all we need is members. How do you get college kids interested in 3 event skiing and the cost that goes with it??? We are working on getting a boat on campus for the spring season to help with recruiting. I have talked to some people about this before but I would like to hear some other

We are also pressed for gear, all of it (jumppers, trick skis ect). I know we all have older gear in the boat shed just collecting dust so let me know if you would like to clear some space for your new skis and we can try to work something out!

I had dinner with Jodi Fisher the other day and he was telling me while he was on his tour these past few weeks going to college tournaments he realized how much college teams need equipment and that he wanted to start collecting old ski gear to help these programs out. Just keep your local college program in mind next time you see all of your old gear sitting around!

Sully that is one great looking boat! What a crew you have, the kids all smiles and the dog!

[Jody_Seal]

This actually a great time of the year for this discussion as winter states and regional meetings are just around the corner, attend them and pass on your concerns and information. I once asked Steve McDermitt who was one of our longer lasting Executive directors if any study had been done of the number of colligate skiers that continued on in AWSA, Answer was no but would try and implement it and of course that never happened and to this day I don’t think any other Executive directors have iniated that study either. But having two children that are both in the Men and women 1 divisions I can tell you that even if they have unlimited opportunity to train and ski tournaments does not mean they will do so. My daughter for instance has cart blanch to ski with numerous very high end skiers on their lakes behind their boats in the central Florida area while she attends USF for nearly nothing cost wise but she refuses to take advantage of the offers afforded to her. My son who has won Nationals in two events and overall and has been on a national jr team has unlimited access to Cory Pickos site in SRB Florida, He has his own tournament boat (Paid for) and access to two new Ski 200 any time he wants to ski but!!!! Do you think he will take it upon himself to take advantage of both the god given gifts of natural talent and opportunity??? No!!! He would rather sit in front of the stupid video games and go to waste. The biggest detriment to our younger men and women is in fact the electronic age we live in. It is just to easy to sit and chill and hang out playing video games or Facebook. We hear some younger men and women say that they would give anything to be able to have access to what some of our children have but very few have the iniatiave once they are given that chance.

I and my sking partners ski on a large public lake in Bay County in the panhandle of  Florida. We actually maintain two slalom courses one in front of some waterfront homes that since I have lived and skied in the area now have break water walls and the course has become very rolley with back wash. The other course was installed two years ago in an area we call the twilight Zone as it can be a strange place to ski from time to time. Any way the second course is tucked away next to some cat tails and very protected for the most part. We have made friends with many of the local fishermen and also the local bass clubs they for the most part leave us alone and we relinquish space when needed from all that utilize that area of water for the most part has been a great place to ski and enjoy what our lake has to offer. I realize that their are many who do not have the luxury of any kind of available water but that is where one must decide how bad they want to ski, can they get up earlier to get that better condition? Situate their lives around getting the better condition is where most have failed and have decided on the private path. In Bay county their are three Private lakes one of them I drive by most every day and can see the slalom course from the road but in the five years I have lived in the area I have only seen someone ski on it maybe a dozen times. Another is new and is owned by a gentleman that basically built it for him self and family. The last one is way back in a wooded area that only a Billy goat could get into and not sure if anyone even swims in that one. Then their is Cory's place over in SRB about an hour from here I try and get over their once a week or so but business has kept me in Bay county for most of the season. But of all these sites and opportunity in my area their are still not that many local skiers and of them maybe 10% are members of USAWS.Some stated about free skiing or open water skiing; my kids have no idea about as they have really never done so always with a course. We have started a new club here in the Area and have brought in a few new skiers and families to the competitive side of the sport and we stress that one does not need a private lake, ZO or even a spot on correct course to ski. This past Sat and Sun morning we had four boats tied together at the twilight zone and we skied and had fun on the lake till mid afternoon. Just Ski!

One other view point as tournaments are concerned. We no longer hold competitions as it pertains to tournaments we now for the most part hold controlled performances.

[kstateskier]

Jody if you're up for it I'll allow you to adopt me...  granted i'm 31 years old but I love to ski and hate video games!  lets talk!

[tru-jack]

I agree with most points, and I fall into the late 30 early 40 year old that has bought a ski boat and enjoys skiing with friends and getting my young family into the sport.  I am fortunate to live on a lake with my own boat.  Our lakes are large, one is over 30 miles long, so they are not private water.  Myself and about 10 other tournament boats with 2 or 3 in each manage to wake up by 6:30 or so and ski every sat and sun early before the lake gets busy and most evenings with some traffic, but it's life on public water.  We maintain 4 courses so we have pretty good options to deal with weather.  Only one of the guys in our club skis tournaments and is loosing interest because he often wins and loses at the same event. (only one in M3 at most tournaments).  Myself and ski partners all ski 2 or 3 sets depending on conditions, get home enjoy breakfast with the family, take my wife and kids for a ski, then lunch, then off to a party cove/island so the kids swim and play and I enjoy the scenery and socialize, then bbq for dinner, and do it all over again the next day.  For my wife and kids (3 & 5) driving to a tournament to watch me ski for 10 minutes, then hang around for hours to do it again, is simply not nearly as fun as our day together.  I am hoping to ski a tournament or two next summer, but with the young family it has yet to work out, and I struggle with paying $100 to ski twice and take all day, when I can ski that much and be home by 8am with a whole day to enjoy.  We're in Ontario, so our summers are only about 4-5 months long, so every minute counts.  I do think the sport of course skiing is very healthy in our area as it's amazing to see that many people skiing weekend mornings and weekday evenings on public water.

[MattP]

Jody forget about kstatesier, if you need a personal assistant during the summer let me know! WILL WORK FOR PULLS! http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-sealed.gif

[tru-jack]

another thought, not totally related, but if the tournaments were fun I would make a bigger effort to attend and my wife and kids would also enjoy it.  I do think the fall tourney that Joe puts on at cottonwood looks like a blast and I wish I could make a big road trip to attend, in fact, I'm hoping to make a weekend getaway and attend the ballers bash, with most of my energy going towards the socializing and bash part of the tournament but also hoping to learn and improve my skiing from some of the experts this site is fortunate enough to have.

[Than_Bogan]

While I know what you mean, t-j, I think most of us who are tournament regulars DO find them fun.  These serve a very small audience very well.  The problem is figuring out how to serve a larger audience.

[tru-jack]

than, I agree they would be fun, but I think it would be more fun if there was more than 1 in your division?  I'm sure you agree, we just don't have enough m3 at our tournaments... it's really not much of a competition without competitors.  that's why I'm hoping to make it to the ballers bash, to participate in a fun tournament!

[Than_Bogan]

Quite true, indeed.  At our most recent tournament, we grouped mainly by ability rather than age.  (AWSA results will always be "assigned" by your age division, but in any given tournament there is really no compelling reason to group competitors by age.)  This was surprisingly more fun than usual, and I don't think I'm saying that just because I skied a personal best and almost won the "top" skill group (lost on third-best-round tie-breaker to a Men Fiver).

[PBD]

Read tru-jacks posts.  I'm not sure the title of this thread should be the future of our sport or the future of tournament waterskiing.   I know, that due to all the issues regarding access to a course and time commitments to ski in a tournament, there are a lot of skiers who don't compete.  But they all are skiers.  This point was raised not only by tru-jack but seemed to be in Sully's post also.

I'm only trying to point out that there is a difference between the sport and the tournament aspect of our sport.

[bxroads]

Jody, it doesn't get much better than the Twilight Zone, private lakes included......

[skispray]

I'm a M1 skier who's recently removed from college and still skis regularly.  I try to make it to as many tournaments as I can, but it's not very easy.  I also live near a collegiate team, so I know about 15-20 passionate M1/W1 skiers, but almost none of them go to tournaments in my area.  Here are my observations:

1) Of the roughly 15-20 passionate M1/W1 skiers I know, only a handful are around during the summer (college kids, afterall).  A number of them ski tournaments at home, but they are spread out around the country.

2) Tournaments held during the Spring and Fall often, unsurprisingly, conflict with collegiate tournaments.

3) My friends are collegiate, aka 3-event skiers.  All but 1 tournament held in my area is a 3-round slalom only tournament.  Many of my ski friends, especially the more serious 3-event skiers, don't see any point in going to a "slalom only tournament."

4) I'd consider myself as more of a "plan ahead" type of person than most of my peers.  However, the tournaments in my area are filled weeks, or perhaps months, in advance.  For a tournament with a maximum of 35 skiers there is no room for M1/W1 when the M3/M4 guys sign up early and fill up all the spots.  I'm not blaming M3/M4 guys, I'm just saying this format of tournament is in no way accomodating to the typical, somewhat spontaneous nature of younger people.

 These are significant probelms to overcome, but I think there are some goals to shoot for:

   -   Tournaments would be much more appealing to me if you could show up unannounced, register & pay, then spend the day skiing.  I understand that given the scarcity of avaiable sites and availability of time this is a challenge, but any changes that can move us in this direction would be extremely beneficial. 

   - Better scheduling.  In my area, there are 5 weekends per year that tournaments are held.  3 of them typically fall on the same weekends as collegiate tournaments.  

  - Those additional intangibles.  Tournaments just need to be a great place to be.  Think about it, would you bring a friend to a tournament who wasn't involved in skiing?  I probably wouldn't because they can be boring.  If I were to host a tournament, I'd probably have a big, delicious bbq lunch provided for everyone just because that sounds great.  There is also something really appealling to a lot of people about "going to the lake" for the day.  I invite people out all the time who don't even care about trying to ski because they just love the atmosphere, the water, etc.  For some reason, ski tournaments don't feel like that.  But they should.

[EF]

Coming from a motocross background, we had _beginner, junior, intermediate, and pro in every class. Very easy to get into and have success early, which keeps you coming back for more. I've been skiing for about five years on a course, but have to compete against guy's who have been skiing course all their lives, does not make much sence to me!! How about having a novice / advanced class in every divsion? One more thing regarding speed control, why can't you choose between rpm baised or ZO? I have an 03 CC, and think it's BS that in have to spend around 5grand just to get the conversion! that's a huge factor in lack of drive to do tournaments....http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif

[Chef23]

T-J, I didn't get into skiing tournaments until my son was interested in doing it. Now it has become somewhat of a family event for the two of us. My daughter and wife aren't really into tournaments at this point.

 

Regarding not having competition in my division it isn't a big factor for me. I am not a threat to win Men's 3. I have run 4@32 off in a tournament and 2@35 at home. Than is in my region and division and runs into 38 and there are a number of other skiers in that same category. I ski tournaments trying to put my best possible performance down when there are no mulligans. Personally I like the competitive aspect of things. I have played competitive golf when I knew I had no chance to win the tournament but do it for the challenge.

[tru-jack]

chef, I'm hoping that I can get my girls interested in the tournaments, then I'll be going because they're involved, and since I'm there I will also ski and think it would be a nice event for us.  Right now they're 3 and 5 so I'm a couple of years away, but that is a big reason why I will start trying to get myself to tournamnets is to get them interested in it, as I would enjoy it much more if they're involved.  any advice to help get the young ones interested without pushing too much? thanks

[skispray]

I've got to agree with EF on this one, I also come from a motocross background and believe that having divisions based on skill level is a much smarter idea.  Case in point, I went to Regionals for the first time a couple years ago and it was the first time there was any real competition in my division.  I wasn't in any way contending for the win - was more of a mid-pack type of skier - but there were other skiers there that were of my ability!  That is the ONLY time I have competed with others of a similar ability outside of collegiate skiing.  I REPEAT, I HAVE NEVER, EXCEPT FOR ONE REGIONALS TOURNAMENT, ACTUALLY SKIIED AGAINST SOMEONE OF A SIMILAR ABILITY IN MY DIVISION IN AN AWSA TOURNAMENT.  And guess what?  That regionals tournament was AMAZING!  I was actually thinking of the other skiers as my competitors, and there was a lot more excitement about trying to go out and ski better than my competitors.  I'm telling you, if you have never competed in this nature and you think competing against yourself is fun, you have no idea what you're missing out on.  AGAIN, SKILL-BASED DIVISIONS WOULD MAKE THIS SPORT BETTER.  Now, just because there are skill-based divisions doesn't mean you need to do away with aged-based competition either.  Here are the divisions I propose (based on ideas from motocross)

So here's how I would invision the ultimate tournament divisions.  Let's say you have a 3-round slalom tournament.  You can sign up for any division you qualify for in any given round.  So if you want to ski 2 rounds in a skill-based division and 1 round in an age based division you can.  Any other combination of divisions you are qualified for is also a possibility.  Here are the divisions I would create:

Skill-Based Divisions

Expert  - For skiers who can run from 35 off to all abilities beyond that

Intermediate - For skiers who can run their max. speed to skiers who can run 32 off

Novice - For skiers who have never skiied up to skiers that have not run their maximum speed (at any line length).

 

Age-Based Divisions

Boys/Girl's 1 - traditional age group

Boys/Girl's 2 - traditional age group

Boys/Girl's 3 - traditional age group

Men's/Women's 1 -traditional age group

Men's/Women's 25+ Class - All skiers age 25 or older are eligible to compete.  If you are 45 but can hang with the young guns, why shouldn't you?

Men's/Women's 35+ Class - All skiers age 35 or older are eligible to compete.

Men's/Women's 45+ Class - All skiers age 45 or older are eligible to compete.

Men's/Women's 55+ Class - All skiers age 55 or older are eligible to compete.

...and so on.

 

Given that skiers will enter the divisions that they will be most competitive in, these rankings ensure that competition is as level as possible.  How could this possibly be worse than what currently exists (other than for scoring purposes)?  I see very little downside and major upside, because this kind of competition sounds like a hell of a lot of fun to me.

 

 

[UTWaterSki]

I'm not completely sure that this is correct. I think as long as the tournament isn't for any type of placement (so not regionals/nationals), a different boat, crew, and judges can be for skiers in the same division a given round. In an area where the same group of skiers shows up at the tournaments each week, I could see placing competitors into 3 or 4 ability based divisions being fairly simple for the tourney directors, and a easy way to develop some fun friendly rivalries for people with close buoy counts.

[6balls]

Scott Thompson in Huxley, IA (dream lake estates) used to run a 3 round grouped by ability level.  The top scores in the first two rounds in each ability level group would ski their third round as a head to head final.  It was fun.

 

[Ed_Obermeier]

Any of you guys wanting ability based classes rather than age based ever heard of the INT League? /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif Of course you have.  One of the numerous reasons INT has success is that the competition is ability based rather than age based.  I agree with an earlier post that we don't want to do away with age based competitions; however not all of us are interested in that format and as also posted earlier AWSA tournaments can be limited numbers wise which is one of several issues.  INT is a different mind set from AWSA but the two are not incompatible and they're not in competition with each other for head count.  INT is a different approach to many of the issues stated in this thread and if you've never considered INT maybe you should take a look at it.  My $0.02.

Ed 

[Jody_Seal]

If anyone wants to set up a tournament in a ability baised system that is already your option as a orgainzer to do so. It is just no one does for the most part. The scores still go in to headquarters as traditional age group scoring. You can put together women and men of different ages and put them in one ability group even with boy's and men. But again no one does it. These and many other issues with in the sport our leaders are oblivous of. If some one wants to hold a class C tournament and utilize Stargazer they Can! Last year it was deemed that if a tournament orgainzer can not find or has the availability of a current approved ski boat you can go back to your regional Tow boat rep and request that a older than three year boat be utilized in Your tournament. But no one does it!

Their is no longer any incentive to come to a ( and I am going to stop utilizing the word tournament) Organized Supervised Performance (OSP). We are having one of those over at SRB this weekend. No one is skiing against each other ( and we will have some pretty good skiing) but they are skiing for rankings list performance only or world and national records, whether it is world or national rankings they are not skiing against one another. funny thing is this OSP mentality is what has undermined to some degree our system and membership participation.

Also thanks for the Offer to trade out my children for their lack of particpation but I still do encourage them to take advantage of their situation. My son just walked out of the shop after I asked him if he wanted to go ski, He said No! But! He is skiing in the OSP this weekend any way just to show me he can go out with out practice and run 35 and trick over 5000 after not having a ski on in over six weeks. The thing that Pisses me off is he probably will!!

 

[Chef23]

OK Jody I officially hate your son:) I skied in the tournament that Than was talking about that had handicap brackets and it was a lot of fun. It was three rounds and everybody was paying attention to how they were doing in the handicap division. It was kind of fun that there was a handicap division and the scores went in to the AWSA like a regular tournament. It gave me a way to be competitive (even though I skied like crap) in the tournament. The other Men's 3 skiers were all running deep 35 or 38 off which would have left me 8-12 buoys behind them.

 

It was different than an INT event (which I also enjoy) in that everyone got three rounds and there were no mulligans so it was a real tournament round.

[skispray]

 Jody, I didn't know that tournament organizers had the ability to host tournaments as ability based competitions right now.  Even if they ultimately go into the books as age-based divisions, People need to be doing this!  I know there are people on this board that host tournaments.  I'm telling YOU, go host tournaments with ability based divisions!!!!!  I'm telling you to do it because the only way to make a change like this is to go do it and prove that it works.  I'm not just pointing fingers, I'm also trying to get this to happen with my local tournament organizers.  Changing to ability based divisions from the top-down will be very difficult.  But changing from the bottom-up is easy.  If it begins to catch on and skiers respond it will make change at the top easier.  Ultimately, the goal should be ability based divisions at REGIONALS AND NATIONALS.  The format I laid out in an earlier post is my ideal for the entire sport, not just a backyard tournament.  Look at motocross - they use these divisions at ALL races, including nationals, and guess what?  It works!  I mean, it really, really works.  It is a proven method of competition and it was a huge motivator for me to go to races when I was riding motocross.  I urge you, if you put on a tournament, try it. 

[Ed_Obermeier]

Chef23 wrote "It was different than an INT event (which I also enjoy) in that everyone got three rounds and there were no mulligans so it was a real tournament round."

Here in Kansas we run two rounds, best score counts.  At Nationals they get two rounds, top three in each class get a 3rd final round.  Not every state does 2 rounds due to numbers/time restraints but personally I'd suggest that all INT tournaments should be 2 round (at least).  Some think the mulligan is a good idea, some don't.  Getting a mulligan if you screw up on the opening pass is one of the things that sets INT apart and draws more beginners (and hackers like me).

Ed

[UTWaterSki]

I started in INT and loved the tournaments when I did them, but I don't know the last time I heard of a slalom event at one of their stops in TX.

[Chef23]

I think the mulligan is perfect for INT events. I understand the one round thing when there are a lot of people. That is why I ski wide ride so I get to get on the water a second time. INT events are a great way to get introduced to tournament water skiing. Around here they are usually just one round and they have 90 or so pulls which obviously takes a while.

[mtnskiskate]

Matt P, Where do you ski. I live up in the mountains of N GA.

[WesternSkier]

A huge draw for me to start skiing AWSA in the summer time was the collegiate special.  Some of the tournaments ran reduced rates and i mean reduced rates.  This made me more likely to head to some summer tournaments.  It helps that I am an assistant judge and I try to help out as much as possible ( swapping courses, judging, rope handler, etc.).  I did the math and it is cheaper for me to ski AWSA than any INT tournament.  Plus all the old guys see me ski like crap and are more than willing to give me some tips so my next set goes much better. 

[EF]

With INT, I think there is a four pass max?? Atleast that's what I'm told in Oregon.

[Jim Neely]

This year the limit is 6 passes except for open divisions which are unlimited. The pass limit affects very few people.

[Chef23]

The INT pass limit can impact kids who are still progressing. We saw a couple of kids bang up against the limit this summer. The kids were the only ones that had that problem.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Along with the pass limit another gripe about INT is spinning skiers rather than setting after every pass.  Mostly affects skiers starting at slower speeds as they run passes and bump up in speed.  Depends on the state and coordinator and whatever time limit/skier volumn they have to deal with.  Again here in Kansas we set after every pass (except for Novice, which only gets two passes anyway) unless the skier asks to be spun (some do).  Also we run as many passes as required, basically ignoring the pass limit.  As Jim said that affects very few skiers anyway.  Being a regular boat driver (in fact I run my own boat in the tournaments, and I am not even a promo guy) I guess I get some say so...  Takes more time but it's worth it IMO.

I've lobbied my state coordinator and the powers that be at INT (mostly through my coordinator) to change these rules, for the most part it seems to come down to the coordinator and their time constraints.  Lobby your state coordinator, they're generally receptive to ideas that promote more participation.

Ed 

[Nick Sullivan]

Sully that is one great looking boat! What a crew you have, the kids all smiles and the dog!

 

Hey MattP,

Thats not my boat, my son is in the front of the boat with some other lake members. They have a blast watching me fall all the time.

[Chef23]

They dropped during INT events this year. It makes a big difference to people that practice with dropping. People claim it adds a lot of time but I think it is worth it.

[Than_Bogan]

You have to drop for a rope length change, right?  It seems unfair to the less advanced skiers to not at least OFFER them the same option.  But I suppose ultimately the reality of time constraints cannot be ignored.

[Mateo_Vargas]

Our club has been putting on a Ski League for the past 4 years and it is run as a Grassroots Fun Tournament so we can make our own rules to keep it fun.  Each skier has a handicap so novice skiers can compete against experts.  After the skier falls they have the option to continue scoring but with a 2 buoy penalty.  Once a score is established they continue their set and ski back to the dock for dinner.  Nightly winners get cash and season winners get gift cards from our sponsors.  The season Champion is also sent to the Diablo Shores Pro-Am.

This year we averaged 16 skiers a night out of a group of about 50.  Most of us are former collegiate skiers so it is a highly social atmosphere.  We have removed the barriers and disadvantages to traditional tournaments mentioned in this thread and have put competition back into skiing.  You can ski & flee but most hang out to the end because it's a good time.

[thager]

Has anyone ever run a three event tournament where each division skis slalom,trick and jump and then moves to next division to do the same? Just an idea I've never heard before.

[MattP]

I guess it could be done if the lake has a pulley system that lowers and raises the buoys that would need to be taken out

[thager]

I remember some of my early tournaments as a kid where every buoy was in place for the whole tourney. Was a little confusing at first. Of course that was on lakes bigger than the private ones now. Might increase participation in overall though?

[Stevie Boy]

The first comment on this thread says it all,  Money,Money, Money, price of memberships + tows or just paying for tows with no membership, given the time needed on the water, it all adds up to lots of WONGA !

The only way round it is not cable skiing, but there is another concept,  I remember years ago in one of the waterski mags the idea of a tower running on tracks that not only rotates at the end of the lake, but the speed or line lenght can be changed as the tower rotates, it was driven hydraulically or electrically, reducing cost in comparison to a boat, the other advantage with such a system is that there is no question about whether the boat was straight or not, which kills one of the arguments for not having waterskiing in the olympics as the conditions and path of tow are the same for everybody.

[disland]

Here in Princeton Tx we run a handicap cash prize in conjunction with our 3 event tournament. This alloows everyone no matter what level to be in the running for the cash.

 With the new ranking program it is easy to set up, doesnt require any rule changes and lots of fun

[Than_Bogan]

I'm pretty skeptical that installing and maintaining track system could end up cheaper than a boat.  Or is the thought that the cost is spread over a lot more people, so that the cost per skier is way lower?

[kfennell]

track systems are kind of stupid since you lose half the experience of riding around in the boat with friends, etc. What a boring sport it would be using only a track system.

[Stevie Boy]

Well we can either be like an ostrich and bury our heads in the sand or we can embrace technology and move with the times, that will allow the sport to get more TV coverage, keeping the sport alive, fact is nobody likes change, people can still operate boats but we have to find a way of making the time needed on the water more affordable not just a sport for youngsters with wealthy parents, Just think how getting the sport into the Olympics would raise the profile and generate interest, just think of the excitement in seeing how far somebody can go without stopping at each end. It would add excitement for the public because competitions would move along much faster.

Waterskiing is not about riding about in the Boat, waterskiing is about individual goals and challenges, I dont go to the lake to ride in the boat ,I go to Ski, I go to claim, just one more of those orange things that you see in the water when you ride up and down in the Boat. As far as I am concerned the boat is just a tool to pull me up and down the lake, so I can try to acheive my personal goal whilst on a waterski.

Guy,s & Gals, No Offence Meant, just my opinion.

[MattP]

For me telling my friends we are going out on the "boat" is how I get them interested in skiing. They want to go sit in the sun, get in the water, lissen to music, have fun, and then they see us skiing then they are hooked. It starts with the boat for getting people interested in skiing. I have people call me every  week and ask if we are going out even now when it is getting colder because they love going out on the boat and having fun and learning about skiing.

[skidawg]

Waterskiing is about friendships, relationships, travel, etc. Chasing bouys just makes it more addictive n interesting

[Stevie Boy]

Fair comment, in the UK it,s $35 to $40 a tow (six passes or ten minutes tricks, beginners, etc), most of the boats run on LPG as petrol is to prohibitive, around $9.50 a gallon, there are few lakes, where you can operate your own boat, most ski lakes are run as clubs with a dedicated boat, so there is a slightly different ethos, not like in the states where there are a lot of lakes to put your own boat on, so I guess the thought process in the USA would be different to the UK, most of the lakes here have been taken over by fishing clubs as they have far more purchasing power after taking subscritions from members. With no TV coverage we rely on people turning up, to have a go, and maybe get the bug, also there are more youngsters interested in wakeboarding, not waterskiing, as they get quicker results in a shorter period of time for less money, plus if they use a cable tow, they get the pull from above making the fancy stuff a little bit easier.

I have seen photos of Comps in the 80,s - 90,s where the banks were overcrowded with spectators, unfortunately that is not the case anymore, I remember telephoning clubs begging them to accept my entry for a comp when they were full, but for the first time this year, clubs have cancelled comps because of the lack of entries, indeed how do we regenerate, the interest in competive waterskiing, there has to be change for the sport to survive.

 

[6balls]

Lots of concern about needing to train ZO to ski ZO tourney, if cables would  need to buy a cable lake set up to compete.  I agree with some others...I love being in the boat.  My turn at the buoys is the best, but I love pulling/coaching others and the escape the boat provides from reality.  I especially love getting a serious set a.m., and having a nice day to dork around w/family and/or friends later just soaking up the sun and relaxing on a public lake.  The best of all is the smile after teaching a new skier, young or old...sometimes that joy is lost on us old dogs.

I just wish the boats and skis used for optimum tourney performance were not so expensive.  At 38 y.o. w/2 kids (saving for their education), student loan payments, mortgage payments, vehicle payments (both were used at purchase), health ins payments etc...I can't pull off one of these boats w/out an extended loan.  This despite being dangerously close to what the gov't calls "rich" based on gross income.

If the "rich" guys struggle for this, how are college grads or new families going to get into this game?  I actually like ZO (tho don't own it), but also believe the manufacturers benefit from the obsolescence of old technology.  Their goals are new boat sales, not necessarily what it takes to grow the sport from the younger generations.  Difficult spot.

If the manufacturers throw out a kick butt hull w/nice motor and ZO, but w/zero creature comforts to contain costs...who buys it other than ski schools and private lake sorts?(remember the price point gekko gts 20, the malibu sportster, the sportstar 19, the malibu tantrum...didn't do well and were discontinued).  How much would such a boat cannibalize a companies high end offerings?

If one of the serious high end ski manufacturers made the "volume bet" and sold their ski significantly cheaper, would the increased volume make up for the decreased profit/unit?

Like many things in our economy, I believe the increase in cost of entry for tourney boats and top end tourney skis is unsustainable for most.