Questions about 196's

[Andre]

A guy on my lake is looking for a 196 and kind of put me in charge of it.He's looking for year 04-05 low hrs and up and we're in the northeast(Quebec) but will travel down the east coast for the right boat.

When did CC changed from the TSC2 to TSC3 ?Any slalom wake differences between the 2?

How many packages were available? SE,LE,Limited?What was the differences in the packages, both $ and options?

Is the 330 powerfull enough or should he looks for boats with the 343 only?

Feel free to chimes in about anything i should look or avoid while shopping for a 196.

I will point him to this thread so if you want to post links to good deals or your own boat, go ahead!

Thanks!

Andre

[ForrestGump]

TSC2 was 2002 through early 2005.  TSC3 came out with the removal of the hook in the transom and the addition of the hydrogate in 06. Slalom wise they ski and feel the same.  The hydrogate was only brought out to satisfy the needs of the trick skiers who didn't like the trick table of the TSC2.

There were essentially two levels on the 196, the SE and LE(limited). In a used boat, you'll see about a $2000 difference between the two.  The SE came with a standard keyed ignition and not much else standard whereas the limited got the keyless ignition/electronics and stereo standard. 

The 330 is fine for just about anything.  You'd never notice the difference between the 330 and 343 in slalom. Maybe footing or jumping, but definitely not slalom.

[6balls]

You can go all the way to '97 and the TSC1 w/GT40 and have a hell of a bargain ski boat.  I bought a 2000 w/the fancy electronics and GT 40 last year w/84 hours for $17K.  Given it's a slalom only boat, we like the fact that it's a pre-trunk model...with back seat out I don't need to climb over the trunk.  Can't go wrong w/any of the TSC hulls.

[skiray]

I'm not sure if it is a considerationfor you, but I would keep in mind which boats you can convert to ZO.  I let a PCM certified shop do mine.  The kits are about $4k.  They can do a 2002 - 2006 PCM Chevrolet 350 MEFI 4 ignition system boat.

 Clearly 04-05 fits will work.  The 330 works great for us, but we just slalom and trick.  Good luck.

 

[thager]

For those with PP I saw a GPS device on EvilPay that claims to send a GPS signal in place of the paddle wheel. Supposedly the PP module can't tell the difference. I don't know if it works for slalom or if at all. Anyone? If it does work there may be some other possibilities for GT-40s.

[Deanoski]

I hope some one comes out with something, so us poor skiers can practice behide zo in older boots..

[eleeski]

ZO and PP settled a lawsuit where ZO got all the new boats and PP got all the retrofits. PP does not work very well with DBW boats so convert one of those boats to the new ECM and ZO and spend the money (essentially getting a new boat).

Throttle cable boats will always be stuck with PP. (OK you could install the DBW throttle AND all the new ECM and ZO - $$? or a new engine). PP Classic with the switch and some weird settings can make the transition to tournament ZO possible. Stargazer is a very different pull from ZO. Hopefully PP will upgrade Stargazer with a switch and a ZO emulation mode. In the past, people hated ZO so much that PP was enjoying their position as the "good" pull. Now people are enjoying and even prefering the ZO pull. If we lobby PP to come up with the ZO emulation, maybe they will add that option.

ZO has accelerometers to make it more reactive than GPS speed change monitoning. A switch could do the same thing for Stargazer. But I wouldn't replace my paddlewheel with a GPS.

Andre, if he tricks at all, the 196 is tough. Go to a bit older model and save some money while being able to have a great trick wake. Or go new - the 200 is nice. And my brand new MC rocks - but it's not for sale.

Eric

[thager]

Eric,

 

There is no need to change the throttle cable. All changes are on the engine itself. My 02 with ZO still has the original Throttle cable installed in 2002. 3K was a lot cheaper than buying one of the new totally out of wack for normal people overpriced big 3 boats.

[Deanoski]

Thanger do you have the gt-40 moter in your boat

 I want to get a new older boat I can put zo in. is 2002 the last yr you do this to?

using a old 1990 sn still runs and pulls strong 560hr on it

thanks for the help

Deano

[Roger]

Deanoski, the boat MUST have the Chevy motor, the Ford GT-40 cannot be converted. The Ford blocks ran out in mid 2002, so that year SN could have either motor. 2003 and on were/are all chevy.

[thager]

Deano,

 

There is no ZO conversion available for the GT-40. I have the Chevy Excaliber 330 in mine. 2002 was the first year Correctcraft started using this Chevy 350 engine in the 196. Be careful which Chevy engine is in the 02 boat you look at as not all of the versions installed are as cheaply converted. You do not want an Apex.

[Jody_Seal]

I have a 2005 EX330 already converted to E-control. 660 hours very well maintained, Adapted with the right motor mount adapters and ready to sit right where a GT-40 sat $4,200.00 plus shipping. Motor is crated and ready to ship! Also a 2005 Indmar 6 liter that is getting ready to be upgraded with the PCM equipment that can also go right where a GT-40 went $4,800.00 plus shipping.

[Deanoski]

Jody, could I put that in my 1990 sn?

 thanks for your expert advise.

Deano

[bxroads]

Jody, what does Scott's SN have in it?  Isn't his a 1992?  That is one sweet tow. 

[Jody_Seal]

Hi Deano,

Yes it is a direct replacement for your old Ford motor. Being that PCM does not build nor sell complete or even partial Ford motors they came up with motor mount adapters that will allow for the Chevy to bolt right were the Ford was. They also have a adapter harness to plug into the motor from the hull harness, and even a new fuel level sending unit that goes into the tank that includes a fitting to run a return fuel line. It is all no brainer stuff! Mount your old PCM transmission and set the motor right where the ford went. Also your Ford pull out motor is worth a few bucks, so that always off sets some of the incured cost as is the old Perfect Pass pull out unit. You may be able to get as much as $3000.00 for all your pull out stuff.

 

Clint: The Motor in Scotts old 92 is a Apex, After the tune up and oil change to royal purple it runs over 52 mph.

[vtjc]

What year did PCM start using E-Controls ECU(06 or 07), so you can directly add Zero Off? Thanks, Jamie

[Andre]

Thanks for the replies guys!

I found a local 196 for him.2004 Limited with the 330,trailer,440 hrs , asking 27k and he got it for 25.5k,no sales taxes since he bought from a private.Very clean boat!

Sorry no pix...

 

[Ed_Obermeier]

Eleeski wrote "...In the past, people hated ZO so much that PP was enjoying their position as the "good" pull. Now people are enjoying and even prefering the ZO pull. If we lobby PP to come up with the ZO emulation, maybe they will add that option..."

Must be a California thing Eric.  In these here parts PPSG is still the preferred pull, us poor Midwest country folks can't afford new DBW ZO boats.  Although I know of at least two DBW boats with PPSG (both MC's FWIW) that are awsome with SG, perfect times and nice soft pulls.  So your statement that SG doesn't work well with DBW is just plain wrong, at least in my experience anyway.  FWIW.

I'm sure as more have gotten more exposure to ZO and have made the adjustment they probably do prefer that pull - it's all they ski behind now so that's what they're used to, of course they prefer it.  But to make a blanket statement that most skiers now prefer ZO is at best off base.  Perhaps most active tournament skiers (since that's all they see or practice with due to being active tournament skiers), but MOST skiers? Not calling you out Eric, just (respectfully) saying...

Cheers, Ed  

[eleeski]

While I did not make the claim that most skiers perfer ZO, I will now say that most active tournament skiers now prefer ZO. Probably BS on the most part but certainly a much larger percentage now enjoys ZO.

I do stand by my claim that PP does not work well with DBW - at least for tricks in a short lake. Overshooting speed, undershooting speed and taking forever to aquire are really irritating to a tricker who is used to ZO immediately getting on speed. Or used to PP with a paddlewheel's perfect pull. Slalom does seem to straighten things out by the gates.

Too many Stargazers are set up poorly and make the times work out by hammering me at 5 ball. I know this can be adjusted - but often it isn't.

Additionally, I never liked the feel of PP without the switch. Stargazer is the feel of PP without the switch. I will buy Stargazer for my old PP MC as soon as they incorporate the switch and its feel. As a side effect, this will allow Stargazer to closer emulate ZO with the appropriate switch settings.

ZO is fantastic for the driver. Just push the throttle and right away the times come out right on. It is easy to get spoiled by ZO. It's just hard on the wallet.

Eric

[Ed_Obermeier]

You're absolutely right Eric, there are plenty of SG installs that haven't been set up right.  Seems to be plenty of them right here in fact.  Then they bitch about how getting hammered at mid course as the GPS tries to make up time, hot one ball times, not locking in quickly enough, what a PITA system it is etc.  I've seen that too so I know what it is.  I maintain that IF you take the time to tweak SG properly it's an awsome pull, much improved over Classic in the lack of having to screw with it (ala ZO).  Especially on DBW boats I've skied/driven.  But you gotta invest the time to set it up properly to get it to that point. 

If one is unwilling to take the time and effort to learn the system and how to adjust it, for crying out loud don't bitch about it.  It works.  Figure it out.  (BTW that's not aimed at you Eric, I'm speaking to the crowd generally, FWIW).  Both systems have issues.  It's all what you get used to, have the most exposure to, are willing to invest your time in learning how to set up or ski behind.  I'd like to learn to ski with ZO but I have no exposure to it.  And I don't anticipate getting a new boat anytime soon so...

Ed   

[jipster43]

I installed Stargazer myself with very little mechanical aptitude and have found it immensely cooler than throttle driven passes! 

JP :)

[GAJ0004]

I have PPSG on my boat it works great. If you don't get to use ZeroOFF regularly, use the B-2 setting. It is the most neutral of them all. You should not have any trouble adjusting. The B2 setting feels like Perfect Pass to me. I don't have any trouble adjusting between the two. I have the paddle wheel with the original software.