T-factor: First impression and question

[Than_Bogan]

Got on my new D3 T-factors that I picked up at Nationals. Although my first pass was totally horrible, I got into the groove very quickly thereafter and my first impression was extremely positive. Details below.

 

But first: What do people do with all that excess bungie? There's enough there to pose a small risk of getting something caught in it, although I suppose it would probably break before the point of causing any serious injury. I have a few ideas to tie it off or otherwise modify it, but I am figuring that probably somebody else already found the ideal solution. If so, please share.

 

The interesting thing about these boots was that they didn't feel much like I expected. The "marketing story" on the T-factor is that it's similar in concept to the Leverage (the one I've been using for years), except that the stiffer sides give you increased edge control. This actually worried me a little, because overly sensitive edges were a huge problem for me the one season I tried hard shells.

 

But I didn't have any sense of increase "edge control" (neither for better nor worse). What I felt instead was like the ski was on rails and that it was almost impossible to stand in the wrong place on it. As fate would have it, I skied my first set on these new boots in near darkness with very bad backwash (apparently it poured at home just as much as it did in IL!). For the ski to track like it did in such conditions and for me run multiple -32s wide and very early, seemed like a great sign.

 

I'm at a loss to explain this, though. My only guess is that the front and back flex that they purposely designed into the binding allows is to absorb a lot of rocking without messing with the ski's attitude, and then the stiffer sides allow you to keep on steering the ski exactly where you want to go?

 

In any case, I sure hope this impression will carry over to -35 and -38 (oh, and -39!) when I can actually see where I'm going and the water is calm!

[Wish]

How about comfert?? Do your feet fall asleep?? Do they feel like they would release in a crash?

[Than_Bogan]

Comfort level was "very good" but not quite "excellent." In particular the front boot felt a little too tight around the ball of my foot even with the front laces as loose as possible (and even though my foot is VERY narrow). However, I would expect this to improve a little as I break them in. Also, there are screws underneath that can be used to adjust the width at different spots if you need to.

 

I run my bindings looser than most and have almost never had an issue with feet falling asleep. These were no exception.

 

I'm pretty confident about a release. It was VERY easy to take them off at the end of my set, although I loosened the bungie before that, so that doesn't necessarily dictate the releasability. But in any case I definitely didn't have a feeling of being "dangerously locked in."

 

On minor negative I didn't mention is that it's a little awkward to put them on, because the tongue portion moves around a little and you have to have it in just the right place before tightening up the bungie. My bet is that this will become unconscious after doing it a few times, but for the moment it's a slight distraction.

[Chef23]

The water needs to go down a foot at least before we get away from the backwash. I would say our water level came up 2-3 feet over the last week.

[Than_Bogan]

Yeah, that is wacky. Don't think I've ever seen an August water level anywhere CLOSE to this. Conceivably it might go down pretty fast, but not if more rain comes. Wish we could send this to all those poor folks facing droughts this summer!!

[Shortenit]

Than,

I have had the T-Factors since April and also loved them till my season ended 7/10 with my injury (non waterski).

 

I too have a very narrow foot and also found that they run a little small and were tight at first, but they stretched out a little after a few sets and were great and very comfortable without any adjusting.

 

Good point on the flex, I tested the prototypes last Fall and the front to rear stiffness was crazy hard, very difficult to find the sweet spot and maintain it. Same feed back came from the others that tried it, so they were changed for production to be softer flexing front/back and now ski great. I also noticed the same thing with the tongue putting them on, you are correct, it will be second nature in a set or two.

 

As for the long bungees, here's what I did. I first reversed them, so the knot was on the top rather than the bottom, and kept playing with them and trimming them back till they were just long enough for me to loosen and get my foot out comfortably, but not longer. Removing this excess alone made a big difference. Then I used a lace end/keeper with a small hook like many bindings have, (mine were from O'Brien), at the top over the knot and used the hook to hold it under the laces below. Works great.

 

BTW, I agree that they will release, but on mine I replaced the heavier stock shock cord with a smaller diameter one since I broke my foot, (not with a D3 binding, and with regular laces, not shock cord), a few years ago when my front foot got stuck half way out during a crash. Rear released fine but the front did not, hung up right at the tightest point. (Of course I was holding on when brains would have dictated tossing the handle. Older and wiser now.) The smaller diameter shock cord has less tension on it and I think will stretch more easily when really needed to allow an easier release. At least it seemed to release easier during dry land testing. I tighten them no more than with the heavier cord and have found no difference in the feel or skiability of the binding. Probably overkill on my part, but don't see any downside and really don't want to repeat that again.

 

[Than_Bogan]

Funny how easy it is to miss something obvious. I kept thinking "How can I shorten this without totally messing it up" and I was completely ignoring the fact that it's knotted together on one end. So I can cut it shorter on THAT end and then just re-knot it. DUH!

 

Thanks!

 

Interesting to hear about the flex history, since my first impression is that the *difference* between front-back flex (very soft) and left-right flex (very hard) may be the "breakthrough" associated with this binding. Having experienced it, it suddenly seems kind of obvious: Raising or lowering the tip is usually the result of an error, so damping that out is a great. Edging is arguably the fundamental technique of the sport, so making that really solid is also great.

 

At least it *sounds* good! :)

[gregy]

What size bindings and feet do you guys have? I have a 13B foot - narrow and flat. I'm using some older HO bindings that are larges. I looked at some of my older skis and they all were Larges. D3 recommending XL for a 13 on the chart.

[Shortenit]

I have mediums and wear a 9 1/2B shoe.

[Ham_Wallace]

I have been on mine since the end of March and love them. I pulled the bungee out the front of the laces and tied a knot, reducing the excess amount that protrudes from the top. I never adjust them and Love them. They will loosen up a bit. The cinches that D-3 provide suck. Just tie a knot in the top bungee.

[Than_Bogan]

I'm wearing a L at 11B (leaning A). And it leans tight. I'd say XL is the right guess unless you like unusually tight boots.

[6balls]

Do they still sell the leverage bindings, or full switch to T-factor?

[ForrestGump]

I've skied in TFactors the last couple of weeks on a borrowed ski. They make the balls of my feet cramp big time after 3 passes. I wear a 10 1/2 shoe and these are large.

[Than_Bogan]

@skibrain I'd say they weigh about the same but I've never put them on a scale. (I don't really care what my bindings weigh, since that barely affects the angular moment [aka "swing weight"] of the ski.)

[Than_Bogan]

Well darn: Now I'm REALLY confused. Second set on these boots seemed pretty awful at first. Took me 3 attempts to get through my opener (-28) and then I was really struggling at -32, especially on my off-side turn. I actually failed to complete it 3 times in a row, mostly falling in stupid ways but also seeming a little narrow.

 

Just for the heck of it, I decided to try a -35 to kind of feel out how the edging felt there. And of course, I ran it.

 

So what in the world does that mean? Just need a few more sets, I guess. I was hoping this would be really obvious as really awesome or really horrible. No such luck. :)

[Old MS Accout]

PJ got a brand new set in the spring and they already wore through the inner rubber and now he has a hard piece of plastic rubbing his foot inside. D3 is sending him a new boot but it has already been 3 weeks and he has not recieved it yet.

[krista]

Just my two-cents...I havent tried t-factor yet but just jumped on a pair of 2012 Connelly talons and am in love. They are so comfortable and I have so much more control. I feel really connected to my ski---especially laterally. They are stiff side-to-side without losing any of the forward/back movement i like with my rubber bindings. I highly recommend them. I switched from 2004 animals to 2010 ones last year and it took me a few sets to adjust. My first set on the Connellys I skied my best I had skied all year...

[Than_Bogan]

Interesting. Didn't you have to play with all sorts of setup parameters to tune them? Or was there some magic method to get them in roughly the right place and orientiations right off?

 

(You're talking about the partially hard shell ones that were officially introduced at Nationals, right?)

[krista]

Didn't do anything to them...just put them on my ski...laced the front one down as much as I could and left a little room for movement on my back one and then skied. It went really well. And I'm talking about the 2012 Talons...they are different than the hardshells with the fogman system --those are called the Stealth. They have this cool little achilles tendon holder thing inside the boots and are like a cross over between a hardshell and a rubber. They lace up the foot and a separate lace up the front of the leg. They don't have that hinge tech stuff on them though. I'm trying to find a pic and can't find one. I'll take one of my ski and post in a bit. I really like them. :)

[Jean B]

Since D3 made a xs binding, I decided to try the T-Factor. Yes even for my size 6 it is narrow where the flat of my foot is, can feel the side seams slightly, however doesn't bother me. Had issues with the front tongue not staying in the center, solved that problem, put a couple holes in the center top to line up with the last cross over on the bungie ties, put a loop made with a piece of lace in there, then ran my ties through the loop. Now my tongue stays put. Being only 5'1" the xs bindings were way to tall, (D3 would save on material on the xs if they made the whole binding an 1 1/2' shorter) I trimmed the front and back rubber part down by at least an 1 1/2". Had to cut and resew the pull on straps back on with a hand sewing awl. Now I have a pair of custom fit bindings, that I like. I said good bye to my old approach bindings. The true test was yesterday, for the first time in a long time, I crashed out the front and the bindings did what they were suppose to do, no damage to the extremities, after getting ejected out of the bindings. Only thing is haveing to deal with a sore neck today.

 

[Than_Bogan]

So I guess I might as well continue to document my experiences with these.

 

Tadd (I think it was Tadd anyhow) over at H20smosis reminded me yesterday that I should really do some open water with new boots. (Strange how easy it is to forget that.) So I ripped back and forth at -32 for a bit, and at first I was getting a bad tip rise exiting my off (1/3/5) side turn. Although I'm not sure I can explain *exactly* why, I usually find that symptom is caused by not staying back and open in the pre-turn. Or put another way, rushing the finish of my turn.

 

I put some mental focus on holding my body position there and things started to feel real good (again).

 

So I jumped into the course and ran reasonably clean -28 and -32. I didn't want to ski too hard because I'm planning two sets tomorrow*, so I left it at that.

 

*Trying to pack in lots of time on these before a Sat tournament, but I want to take Friday off to rest.

 

Seems like I learned something about how to use these. There are definitely glimmers of awesomeness on these, but it's probably going to be a tough decision after completing the best "ski year" of my life on my old Leverages. (One way or another I need new boots -- it's just a question of these or new Leverages. And now Krista is confusing me with the Connelly's... but thankfully I don't have time to try them!)

 

If I do keep these, I need to make some modifications similar to what some folks have described above. But I don't want to mess with something that I might return!!

[D-Law]

Hey Krista I would love to see those pics!

[Than_Bogan]

Ok, definitely getting more comfortable.

 

At this point I may "have" to stick with these because what they are doing behind the boat is so amazing. I have a little more to figure out in the turn, but the way I am ripping across is awesome. I ran a -28 so ridiculously early that the whole way I was convinced the Perfect Pass had never kicked in. Felt like 32 or maybe 33. 16.96.

 

I didn't miss any -28s or -32s (3 for 3 on each length), and some of those were Crazy Early. In the set where I went on down the line I got 3 @ -38 (would have been scored 3.5 at Nationals... sorry couldn't resist). That's a slightly above average practice score for me on any day, and with some not-quite-as-bad-as-Nationals backwash still around, I found myself pretty impressed.

 

The one thing I'm still not doing correctly with these boots is my pull-out and initial turn for the gate. I don't feel like I'm getting to where I want at the time I want, and I'm also having a lot of trouble with edge-hunting and getting sucked back in. This is most likely just a case of finding the right way to stand on the ski, but if anybody has any advice for that, I'm all ears.

 

One minor note: I'm finding myself running these really loose. They almost feel like they could just fall right off when I'm in the water, but they are performing great in the course. When I tighten them to feel "snug," they seem to feel worse in the buoys. But that could just be that I'm not yet accustomed to the finer control they offer.

 

Next up: 3 round tournament in VT. I won't put too much stock in what happens there (unless I ski fantastically), because I'm still in an adjustment period and tournament skiing sometimes causes my instincts to revert.

[trs1]

Than

 

Yes, it was me who emailed you back.

Been following you along on here.

Sounds like its been more positive than negative so far.

Glad you went and free skied. I think that will help you "feel" the boots moreso, than just slamming buoys and not really knowing what may be going on with the ski in relation to your movements. Hope it helped.

Stay in touch and let me know how it goes.

Thanks

Tadd

 

sales at h2oproshop dot com

[Than_Bogan]

Thanks, Tadd. Yeah, definitely more positive than negative. I'd say I'm up around 75% to keep these now. It's a bit of a high bar to get over because my "old" equipment has been performing brilliantly, so I really have to see "amazing" rather than just "good." But, so far, these boots look on track to clear that bar. What I was getting behind the boat at every line length was sweeet. And that was extra noticeable at -38, where I almost felt like I could have "makeup speed" available once I get a touch more comfortable in the turns. If these were to turn -38 into a regularly runnable pass, you wouldn't be able to get 'em back from me if you sent an army... :)

 

I think next week will be extremely informative. I should be basically comfortable at that point and the backwash *should* be gone (KNOCK ON WOOD). So if I'm getting deep -38s a lot, it'll be a no-brainer. What's going to be really hard is if I'm seeing the *same* top end of 3s with a rare 4. At that point it would become a tough call because I've posted the best tournament scores and placements of my life this year on my Leverages. Do I chase the "potential" or go with proven success!? Here's hoping I'll crush a -38 or two in the next few days and I won't have to figure that out!

[LakeOneSkier]

I've been on Animals for 10 years, currently on a set of '09's. Been thinking about trying the T-Factors, great info in this thread. Thanks.

 

I regularly ski with two guys, also on Animals. One tried to switch to Strada's a few years ago, the other tried to switch to HO Exo Pro's this year. Each struggled and switched back to the Animals fairly quickly. (one too quick in my opinion)

 

Not to hijack the thread, but when switching bindings is the transition period noted above normal?

[Than_Bogan]

Transition period: Yes. It's pretty amazing how big a difference there can be between bindings. In my opinion, it's almost as large of a transition as a new ski (assuming you transfer your old bindings so only the ski is different). And this is even more true with boots that employ some "new concept," like hard shells, or the T-factor very-assymetric flex, or the Radar "sneaker-like" boot.

[Than_Bogan]

Since at least one person found some value here, I'll continue for a bit.

 

I have officially decided to keep the T-factors. I'll begin some minor modifications tomorrow.

 

After a grand total of 5 sets, I had to "interrupt" my experiment for a tournament. I ran -35 in all three rounds, with scores of 1, 3.5, and 3 at -38. This is a very solid tournament for me, that raises my ranking score (fractionally). I was second of all 34 mph skiers, as well, with new friend [amazing how easy it is to make ski friends!] Jonathan Murray edging me out with a 4. As I was already leaning strongly toward keeping these, this sealed the deal.

 

I'm still excited to see what these babies can do after I get a little better balance on them. That 3.5 was off a pretty mediocre start. Typically I expect a mediocre start at -38 to lead to at most a 1.5.

 

I think for round 3 I was kinda spent. Crazy glare for my -35 and it took a lot out of me to scramble it. Great start to -38 but just couldn't keep it going and kinda "rode it out" to a 3, which in and of itself is pretty unusual for me to be able to say!

 

P.S. Very nice site at the Wrightsville Reservoir in VT. It's way far for me, but if you live anywhere remotely near there, give it a shot!

[Than_Bogan]

Having committed to keep these, I made a few adjustments.

 

Tools: Needle nose pliers (ideally two pairs), lighter (perferably a long-arm firestarting lighter), strong scissors, measuring tape

 

- I removed the cord keepers from the front (i.e. further toward ski tip) cord section of each boot. This requires popping two little catches out on each side. (You could just break them off, too, but I prefer to keep them as backup for the other two cord keepers.) I could imagine that some folks would want to be able to cinch around the ball of the foot, but I do not. So I undid the knot at the end (needle-nose pliers), retied it at a point of "not loose" (but not cinched at all), cut off the excess, and then flash-burned (about 2 seconds) the ends to prevent them from unravelling in the future.

 

Note: This cord knots really easily. Just put the two pieces parallel to each other and then tie a single "overhand" (the trivial one) knot with both pieces and voila.

 

- On the top section of each boot: I removed about 10" of cord from the front boot and about 13" of cord from the rear boot, by the same method described above. I left in the cord keepers/cinchers -- that's mainly so I can loosen them way up when taking them off. I know a guy who tore an achilles taking off his boots! In the interest of extreme caution, I put the ski on and off before I was willing to cut off the excess. Probably I could have been even more aggressive, but these mods make the amount of excess cord (when cinched) be too short to hit the water, which is about all I was really looking for.

 

Together, these modifications give the boots a much "cleaner" look, and simplify the in and out process to about the same as my Leverages.

 

Look out -38, you are GOIN' DOWN! (again)

 

Somewhat aside: I'm a little curious why they come from D3 with soooo much extra cord. Sure I have narrow ankles and feet, but 10" seems like an awful lot of excess, and 13" is kinda ridiculous. And like I said I easily could have taken out 12+ and 15+. I'm sure they'd only save a few pennies by shipping them with shorter bungies, but they'd also be closer to "turnkey" if they shortened it up a bit. As they are now, there's the moment of "what the F am I supposed to do with all this cord?"

[6balls]

I'm hoping you rock the 38, Than. Having said that, sounds like a lot of monkeying around to get the t-factors right. Stick a foot in the leverage and it's golden right out of the box. Sure have been a happy skier since sticking the leverage on the Razor. It's hard not to make all of my ski buddies give this combo a try...fantastic ski even better when set up w/the right bindings. Hope in the end the t-factors are as good to you as the leverage has been to me...just got my spare leverage delivered.

Start my new tourney season next weekend...so will see how it goes. I've run 24/25 35's on this set up and lots of deep 38...but keep finding ways to screw it up at 5 ball. Sure would love to have a tourney score into 39...and given what you have posted I know you are in the same boat...let's go get 'em!

[Than_Bogan]

Indeed. Best of luck to you!

 

I think the T-factors are a little more "new tech," which usually means some imperfections. Leverages are very established and so have been pretty optimized. I'm sure the T-factors will be a little more turn-key in another generation or two. Also, I hope I'm not exaggerating the complexity. I skied very well at the tournament without doing anything fancy; I just thought they could be made a little more convenient with a few tweeks.

 

And actually, having done that, they have a slight advantage over the Leverages, which tend to trail those strings behind -- and sometime I had trouble getting them off because it wrapped around something.

 

Still, Leverage is a great boot. Loved it for 7 seasons! It just appears that T-factors are even a little better for me.

[6balls]

Cool! Hope you rock 'em. On the leverage, I tuck the plastic piece at the end of the cord between the binding and overlay, no strings trailing. If the leverage were no more, I would be trying t-factors, too.

[Than_Bogan]

I've been working on my gates (see other threads) and also skiing in a lot of pretty lousy conditions recently, so I haven't had a lot of new stuff to report here, but it's worth mentioning that a lot of my initial impressions are holding up. I think the best high-level summary is:

 

- Quality of turns is about the same as Leverages, but requires a different balance point.

- Ability to get angle behind the boat is notably better than Leverages.

- These boots are a little "prototypey," and may require a little effort from the user to customize them and make them convenient. (Not a lot of effort, though.)

 

I feel like I am soo close to going from 0% (except at John's Pond) at -38 to maybe 25%. But Irene has seen to it that I'll be skiing backwash for another week. So the future remains uncertain (as always).

[gregy]

I have had a set of T-factors for over 2 weeks but just got to ski on them today (Dang shoulder problem). I'm on a new ski as well so its hard to report on any comparisons and I was only free skiing.

 

I ended up getting XLs front and rear, I have a 13B foot. Very narrow and low volume foot, I usually have to go down to Large bindings. I don't think the T-factors would work if you had a much bigger foot - They were comfortably snug for me. I did have some some discomfort on my front foot. There was a pressure point at the base of my small toe were the joint is, on outside edge. I going to look at the adjustment to see if I can do something about it (did you notice this any Than?).

 

Putting them on was not a problem, I was expecting the tongue moving around thanks to previous warnings here. I was able to remove them easily after loosening the bungees.

 

I agree with Than as far as behind the boat, the ski really stayed on edge. Kinda surprised me when I made my first hard cut.

[Than_Bogan]

Yes, gregy, I think most of us experienced front foot tightness at first. It only lasted for a few sets.

 

And I tend to agree that someone with a wide foot might never get comfortable in these, at least without some further modification.

 

I wish I had more to report on my end. We've been in crazy-high water since Nationals, including this weekend's tournament. At this point I may be in a drysuit before I see good conditions again. I am sooo eager to try these out at -38 on good water now that I'm pretty accustomed to them.

[35 in the bag]

UPS confirmed delivery of a new T-Factor for me......woo hoo.......off to the lake for it's first set. I'll let you know of my impressions.

 

John

[35 in the bag]

Loved, loved, loved it......except it is crushing my big toe nail to the point of having a bruse under the nail after only 7 passes.

 

I nearly ran 38 for only the 3rd time this year.......early onto 5 and overturned/loaded and popped the handle (lff)....... very happy to ski that well on a new set-up.

 

They sent me a medium (left foot is probably 10 1/4 D) and it fits perfectly until I start loading. My foot must be moving forward slightly which is disconserning.

 

I am torn. I believe I could modify it to fix the big toe problem. I could simply remove a small portion of the base pad rubber (about the size of a quarter) under the big toe. The base pad rubber is about 3/8" thick or so.

 

I would also use a cord in the very bottom pair of lace rings to tighten over the top of the lower foot...... but that is how I broke my toe in a modified RS-1 when I center punched 4 ball @ 35 ( ski tip just stopped as it re entered the water).

 

Of course if I modify it and it doesn't work ....then I basically ruined it's second hand resale value..........

 

John

[Than_Bogan]

Hm, @ 10D I would think Large. I'm 11B (leaning A) and the Large is plenty snug. Then again, I don't run my bindings as tight as some other skiers.

 

Great first results, though! Hope you can get 'em dialed in. I *think* I have mine nicely dialed in now, but I haven't had a true chance to test them yet.

[6balls]

I wear nearly a 12D and used to run medium leverage binding...my big toenail would get crushed at first also. S'where along the way they changed the sizing...I can't hope to get into a medium now, so have larges. Better fit, no toe crush.

I think if you can put up w/it a short time, the foot bed will break in a bit and the toe will be ok. Keep runnin' 'em right thru 38.

[gregy]

I've had a few more runs on the T-factors. They've loosen up a lot from the first couple of times, especially the front. I'm really having to pull the cord tight on the front to get the snug fit I want. The front to back flex has softened up as well. Still liking them, however I'm missing the foot bed of my HO's that had arc support etc. I'll see what I can do to add some arc support when I get some time.

 

Now the issues: I was getting a blister just below / behind the inside ankle bone. Using a flash light I was able to see a good size chunk of inner liner that was protruding inward - looked like it was not cut out properly. Removed it and no more blister. I looked in from the toe end (front boot still) and found two more chunks of rubber that were harder and had specific cut shapes. They were left there from assembly, wedged between the foot bed and side. I was able to remove them easily just using my fingers. The front's a lot more comfortable now.

[mikeskier1960]

I know this post is a little old, but the information was quite relevant. I needed to replace the original D3 soft bindings on my Nomad and came across these exchanges when researching the TFactors model. When I saw that you mentioned Jonathan Murray's name, I went to the source, and he vouched for your ski cred. When I lived in northern NY, he was one of my regular ski partners. He also talked me out of the Helix and onto a Connelly Prophecy. Eagerly awaiting the arrival of ski and bindings to break them in during these last few ski weekends in the Philly area. Will let you know how it turns out, and I may try out the re-lacing technique.

[smalor]

Switched to T-factor front and Wiley's rear after many years with Animal front and erb rear. Love the T-Factor. I am size 11 foot and ordered size large. I find it easy to put on with a bit of soap and very comfortable. I haven't needed to modify anything. No real worries about release....seems to come off easy enough after my set....I don't loosen the cords before removing. Noticed increased ability to hold angle immediately on first set compared to old set up. Very happy overall!

[Than_Bogan]

Thanks for the compliments, folks, but just for completeness:

 

Although I still think the T-factor is the best rubber boot out there, I personally have moved on to OB4, which I believe is non-trivially safer while offering similar performance characteristics. Thanks to their soft shell option, I finally found a non-rubber boot that I can be comfortable in. And the release is genius. No binding system can save you from all injury, but the OB4 system overcomes a lot of fundamental safety limitations of previous rubber and hardshell systems.

 

I never got seriously hurt in T-factors, but I twisted my ankle pretty badly one time. It takes a lot of violence to rip your foot out the top of a boot. Releasing the foot from the ski has obvious advantages. And in a twisting direction, rubber essentially doesn't release at all.

 

Then comparing to traditional hardshells, the OB4 system has hugely better Achilles protection because it can independently release the rear heel of either boot. (But I always mention that a Gatormod is highly competitive at preventing Achilles injuries and better in some situations.)

 

The OB4s are very new and bleeding edge, though, so if you're interesting in OB4s, save yourself a little time and headache by reading my Complete Idiots Guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M3z1wtYSyhHVQGdpaH_UOD2dEW0jhYlMHtD0eoizspg (Apologies think link may not have been accessible for a while. I think it is now?)

[ozski]

Than I love my T-Factor boots but could not deal with the cramps so I switched to Vectors and the next step is Vapor or Profile....

[Than_Bogan]

@skibrain Each skier must determine his/her own comfortable risk level. It can never be zero and different tradeoffs can be made. That said, I personally would be very nervous with T-factors with a very snug top cord. Hard to imagine you're ever coming out of that. I really hate to do the usual "news"caster stunt of taking one data point and pretending it's a pattern, but nevertheless I do know someone who pretty thoroughly shredded his leg muscles (especially hamstring) in a double-T-factor crash that did not release. I got some comfort from the fact that I ran mine pretty loose, but safety-wise I think my new OB4s are a significant step up.

[jhughes]

Bringing this thread back from the dead.

 

Tried the T-factor today (single boot + RTP setup) coming off of the Leverage. Reason being that I don't like the force I have to put through my heel to rip my foot out of the Leverage after every set, particularly when the water is cold. I set the new boot at exactly the same measurement as the old boot +/- about 1/16" since the adjustment holes were not exactly the same relative to the heel as my older Leverage. Very, very close though.

 

Binding felt comfortable. Like wearing a slipper. RFF. Glide and turn-in seemed pretty normal, 1/3/5 was violently hard with a huge, crazy feeling exit angle and 2/4 (onside) felt like the ski would not turn at all. Opening passes were runnable, once I got to -28 I could not run the pass. Really frustrating. Didn't feel like I had a solid connection to the ski, either, even with the laces pretty snug.

 

Before I send this thing back, what happened? What could I change to make this binding work? I'll give it one more set (this is a short season so I don't mess with this stuff if it doesn't work semi-immediately) if I can get some feedback before tomorrow but my first impressions of this binding are not good at all.

[jhughes]

@skibrain D3 Leverage previously.

[ozski]

The T-factor is different but in a good way. Give it at least 5 sets and you will adapt and like it, Binding changes are a big deal and you need to put in the time.

[Than_Bogan]

T-factor is very different from Leverage in my opinion. But I believe you'll love it after a few more sets.

[Chef23]

@jhughes give it 5 or 6 sets before you give up on it. I switched to a hard shell at one point and it took me 3 sets before I could run a pass. By the 6th set I was running close to my regular practice average.