It all starts with handle control -- whatever that means to each of us

[Razorskier1]

I was looking at pictures of Big Dawgs at the edge change. Not only do they keep the handle, but they keep it "in". Meaning that they keep their elbows very close to the vest when changing edges. I have always tried to maintain the handle in the edge change, but I let it come up and my elbows were coming out from my body at the edge change. In the 122 passes I have run in the last 6 days, I've been only thinking about keeping my elbows in. Hard to explain all the good things that does. The two most readily observable to me are (a) the edge change occurs in the same place and in the same way every time and (b) despite building significant speed and the water being colder, I am actually earlier, wider and in more control at the ball.

 

Don't ask me why I keep having to relearn the basics. Too many adult beverages with MS at tournaments?? Anyway, it has been terrific fun to work on in the waning days of MN skiing. Six sets, 122 passes, 732 buoys later, I think I'm getting it! My goal is to double the pass count in the next 8-10 days weather permitting, then probably have to hang it up for the season. But . . . I learned something again! Now to remember it until spring!

[jipster43]

Bruce Butterfield 101! As a beginning course skier, I have a lot to think about while I'm out there, but if I only think of one thing - it's keep my elbows in. That has advanced my skiing more than any other tip.

[jipster43]

Bruce Butterfield 101! As a beginning course skier, I have a lot to think about while I'm out there, but if I only think of one thing - it's keep my elbows in. That has advanced my skiing more than any other tip.

[MrBrown]

Many times when skiers are attempting the "elbows to the vest" technique for the first time in an attempt to have an efficient and powerful pulling position, many skiers may actually be bending their arms/elbows in an attempt to get their "elbows to the vest". This is incorrect!!! To perform this technique properly, a skier must keep his arms TOTALLY STRAIGHT . Because the elbows rarely actually touch the vest, another way to think about it is attempting to bring the “back of the arms to the vest” and LOCKING them in.

 

Schnitz mentioned another way to think about the "elbows to the vest" technique, which may be easier to understand and to execute, and that is by bringing your "vest to your elbows". This "vest to the elbows" technique happens as a result of sticking your chest out, rolling your shoulders back, keeping your head level, and arms totally straight. The RESULT will be excellent “handle control” with the handle low and “in the pocket”! EXCELLENT HANDLE CONTROL is a “RESULT” of how well a skier keeps his “vest locked against his elbows”, with the chest out, hips up, shoulders back, and falling into the proper leaning position as a result.

 

Photos of Big Dawg Skier’s Body Positions http://www.schnitzskis.com/newsflash.html

 

Next time your running late in the course, instead of rolling the ski on a higher edge and in an attempt to ski a greater cross course angle (and creating more load/speed) to catch up, .......just try locking the "vest to the elbows" more aggressively and REALLY THINK ABOUT "STICKING YOUR CHEST OUT" as much as possible. You will be amazed by the acceleration and width achieved by this "sticking the chest out/elbows to the vest" technique!

 

[MrBrown]

Many times when skiers are attempting the "elbows to the vest" technique for the first time in an attempt to have an efficient and powerful pulling position, many skiers may actually be bending their arms/elbows in an attempt to get their "elbows to the vest". This is incorrect!!! To perform this technique properly, a skier must keep his arms TOTALLY STRAIGHT . Because the elbows rarely actually touch the vest, another way to think about it is attempting to bring the “back of the arms to the vest” and LOCKING them in.

 

Schnitz mentioned another way to think about the "elbows to the vest" technique, which may be easier to understand and to execute, and that is by bringing your "vest to your elbows". This "vest to the elbows" technique happens as a result of sticking your chest out, rolling your shoulders back, keeping your head level, and arms totally straight. The RESULT will be excellent “handle control” with the handle low and “in the pocket”! EXCELLENT HANDLE CONTROL is a “RESULT” of how well a skier keeps his “vest locked against his elbows”, with the chest out, hips up, shoulders back, and falling into the proper leaning position as a result.

 

Photos of Big Dawg Skier’s Body Positions http://www.schnitzskis.com/newsflash.html

 

Next time your running late in the course, instead of rolling the ski on a higher edge and in an attempt to ski a greater cross course angle (and creating more load/speed) to catch up, .......just try locking the "vest to the elbows" more aggressively and REALLY THINK ABOUT "STICKING YOUR CHEST OUT" as much as possible. You will be amazed by the acceleration and width achieved by this "sticking the chest out/elbows to the vest" technique!

 

[Than_Bogan]

It really is kind of amazing how long those big dawgers keep the handle low and "connected" (for lack of a better term). The pros do, too, with Karina Nowlan and Nate Smith being my personal models for what I wish I could do with the handle.

 

I am increasingly convinced that this is THE most important technical aspect to advance from -35 to -39.

 

I probably wouldn't even mention this concept to someone working at -22 and longer, and I wouldn't start to really emphasize it until -35 and shorter. There are a lot of more "fundamental" things that you have to get right before handle control makes the list.

 

But for those of us trying to eek out the last few buoys of our careers, handle control really seems to be THE key to advancement.

 

I made a lot of progress on it in 2011, and it will continue to be a prime focus in 2012.

[Than_Bogan]

It really is kind of amazing how long those big dawgers keep the handle low and "connected" (for lack of a better term). The pros do, too, with Karina Nowlan and Nate Smith being my personal models for what I wish I could do with the handle.

 

I am increasingly convinced that this is THE most important technical aspect to advance from -35 to -39.

 

I probably wouldn't even mention this concept to someone working at -22 and longer, and I wouldn't start to really emphasize it until -35 and shorter. There are a lot of more "fundamental" things that you have to get right before handle control makes the list.

 

But for those of us trying to eek out the last few buoys of our careers, handle control really seems to be THE key to advancement.

 

I made a lot of progress on it in 2011, and it will continue to be a prime focus in 2012.

[6balls]

The difficulty is that there is no single key to excellent slalom, it all has to work together. If I overload in the pull, handle control won't save me.

If I hook up and lean properly, w/good body position and arms straight, work with the boat, bend my front knee a squeak in the pre-turn, keep the handle, stay more upright w/shoulders level, counter-rotate just a bit, make that final reach down the buoy line, drop in behind the ball...then it all goes well.

I guess my point is for handle control to make a big difference to a skier, other technical aspects need to be going well also. It sure is an important piece of the puzzle, and very important to me at this stage in the game. Cool when it all comes together.

[6balls]

The difficulty is that there is no single key to excellent slalom, it all has to work together. If I overload in the pull, handle control won't save me.

If I hook up and lean properly, w/good body position and arms straight, work with the boat, bend my front knee a squeak in the pre-turn, keep the handle, stay more upright w/shoulders level, counter-rotate just a bit, make that final reach down the buoy line, drop in behind the ball...then it all goes well.

I guess my point is for handle control to make a big difference to a skier, other technical aspects need to be going well also. It sure is an important piece of the puzzle, and very important to me at this stage in the game. Cool when it all comes together.

[Razorskier1]

6balls -- handle control seems to fix a lot of these issues. First, tough to be overloaded and keep the handle tight at the edge change. If overloaded, arms go out when you come up. Second, if I keep the handle tight at the edge change, that "moment" actually lasts longer than you think, and you find yourself keeping it tight out to buoy width. Third, if you keep it tight, when you reach you seem to naturally reach in the right way, letting out the rope more slowly and in the direction of travel. Said differently, for me at this point in my progression, focusing solely on the elbows being tight from turn in to edge change (and beyond), makes a bunch of those other parts of the process feel more natural. I don't even think about them and they happen the right way. Said differently, this piece of the puzzle seems to tie a lot of other pieces together.

[Razorskier1]

6balls -- handle control seems to fix a lot of these issues. First, tough to be overloaded and keep the handle tight at the edge change. If overloaded, arms go out when you come up. Second, if I keep the handle tight at the edge change, that "moment" actually lasts longer than you think, and you find yourself keeping it tight out to buoy width. Third, if you keep it tight, when you reach you seem to naturally reach in the right way, letting out the rope more slowly and in the direction of travel. Said differently, for me at this point in my progression, focusing solely on the elbows being tight from turn in to edge change (and beyond), makes a bunch of those other parts of the process feel more natural. I don't even think about them and they happen the right way. Said differently, this piece of the puzzle seems to tie a lot of other pieces together.

[Dusty]

It works at longer lines too. To paraphrase a friend- sort of- "You can run 15 off w/ a 35 off edge change, but you wont run 35 off w/ a 15 off edge change."

[Dusty]

It works at longer lines too. To paraphrase a friend- sort of- "You can run 15 off w/ a 35 off edge change, but you wont run 35 off w/ a 15 off edge change."

[Razorskier1]

OB -- I don't know if 38 is easier in practice, I just have more chances to try it than I do in tournament. In 2011 my consistency and ease of running 35 (particularly the ease part) was better than ever, and it was good in 2010. I estimate that I ran more than 400 35 off passes in 2011. At 38 I probably ran about the same number as 2010, and probably about the same percentage hit rate. I think a big part of that is that I don't really practice 38. I take a poke or two every time I ski, but don't work on it beyond that (usually because of time constraints and not wanting to spend all of our ski time splashing down). The last couple of weeks of this season I did spend more time practicing 38 and it seems clear that is what I need to do more often in order to increase my percentage hit rate.

 

All of that said, tournaments can frustrate me. I ski on my lake all week, and on a private site on the weekends. Literally every weekend at the private site I ran 38 straight through at least one set (out of 3-4). On my home site, which is a public lake with a portable course, my success rate is much lower. Still, if I could even achieve 25% success in tournaments at -38 I'd be getting one almost every time I did a three rounder. That clearly wasn't the case this year.

 

Gives me a goal for next year!

[Razorskier1]

OB -- I don't know if 38 is easier in practice, I just have more chances to try it than I do in tournament. In 2011 my consistency and ease of running 35 (particularly the ease part) was better than ever, and it was good in 2010. I estimate that I ran more than 400 35 off passes in 2011. At 38 I probably ran about the same number as 2010, and probably about the same percentage hit rate. I think a big part of that is that I don't really practice 38. I take a poke or two every time I ski, but don't work on it beyond that (usually because of time constraints and not wanting to spend all of our ski time splashing down). The last couple of weeks of this season I did spend more time practicing 38 and it seems clear that is what I need to do more often in order to increase my percentage hit rate.

 

All of that said, tournaments can frustrate me. I ski on my lake all week, and on a private site on the weekends. Literally every weekend at the private site I ran 38 straight through at least one set (out of 3-4). On my home site, which is a public lake with a portable course, my success rate is much lower. Still, if I could even achieve 25% success in tournaments at -38 I'd be getting one almost every time I did a three rounder. That clearly wasn't the case this year.

 

Gives me a goal for next year!

[6balls]

Razor, my handle control is way better and easier to maintain when I don't overload. The reverse is not true. I can do everything right into a ball and still find a way to overload...it's my worst habit (well...that and 2,4 ball slam dunks!)

When I lean properly without load the handle control is better and the turns take care of themselves.

Next year you're gonna run a pile of tourney 38's. Keep refining cuz your so close to blowing it open. I want some, too!

[6balls]

Razor, my handle control is way better and easier to maintain when I don't overload. The reverse is not true. I can do everything right into a ball and still find a way to overload...it's my worst habit (well...that and 2,4 ball slam dunks!)

When I lean properly without load the handle control is better and the turns take care of themselves.

Next year you're gonna run a pile of tourney 38's. Keep refining cuz your so close to blowing it open. I want some, too!

[ral]

Being able to get the elbows to the vest is not a product of just wanting to do it, thinking about it or practicing. It is the result of several things that need to be in place to achieve it. And this result, as well phrased by BB, does not come easy even for the Big Dawgs in their limit passes.

[ral]

Being able to get the elbows to the vest is not a product of just wanting to do it, thinking about it or practicing. It is the result of several things that need to be in place to achieve it. And this result, as well phrased by BB, does not come easy even for the Big Dawgs in their limit passes.

[MrBrown]

Women actually have an easier time with "vest to the elbows" than men, because men like to think that they can use their arm strength to help them ski better by pulling in on the handle! Men usually have the hardest time with totally straightning their arms.

 

"Vest to the elbows" is fairly easy to execute if the skier first STANDS TALL, (the taller the better), with chest out, shoulders back, etc,...however as a skier begins to bend his knees and starts to "drag his _ss", and begins to "lead with his shoulders" is when "vest to the elbows" is almost impossible to acheive.

 

Trent F. wrote in "Anchor Point" - http://www.ballofspray.com/trent-f/918-anchor-point

 

"To have your handle low in relation to your body, you must simply have your hips high to the handle. This begins before your gate pull-out. Standing alongside the wakes, pay attention to where yours begin to leave your body. If it is at chest height, stand taller by ensuring your hips are high, over your feet. This will bring your chest up, and your shoulders back. Because your handle doesn't really move, it will now be lower in relation to your hips. The lower your arms leave your sides, the more the pull will be directed through your entire back, making you stronger and more balanced in your cut."

 

[MrBrown]

Women actually have an easier time with "vest to the elbows" than men, because men like to think that they can use their arm strength to help them ski better by pulling in on the handle! Men usually have the hardest time with totally straightning their arms.

 

"Vest to the elbows" is fairly easy to execute if the skier first STANDS TALL, (the taller the better), with chest out, shoulders back, etc,...however as a skier begins to bend his knees and starts to "drag his _ss", and begins to "lead with his shoulders" is when "vest to the elbows" is almost impossible to acheive.

 

Trent F. wrote in "Anchor Point" - http://www.ballofspray.com/trent-f/918-anchor-point

 

"To have your handle low in relation to your body, you must simply have your hips high to the handle. This begins before your gate pull-out. Standing alongside the wakes, pay attention to where yours begin to leave your body. If it is at chest height, stand taller by ensuring your hips are high, over your feet. This will bring your chest up, and your shoulders back. Because your handle doesn't really move, it will now be lower in relation to your hips. The lower your arms leave your sides, the more the pull will be directed through your entire back, making you stronger and more balanced in your cut."

 

[Razorskier1]

Elbows in is easy in the lean if you ski tall (which I do). The key connection I was missing was keeping them tight at the edge change, when your body is coming up and the natural tendency is for the handle to move out and away from your body. I realize now that this is where the 'back arm pressure' concept comes into play. If I keep my trailing elbow in, then I get that back arm pressure, allowing the ski to release outbound much earlier, easier, and wider.

[Razorskier1]

Dang this is fun! 8 sets, 168 passes, 1008 buoys in 8 days. Water plus air 82 degrees yesterday. Is that Schneewind temp? Time is running out on fall skiing, but southern canada (aka MN) should give me at least one more week!

[thager]

My boat is coming out this week. No one in this part of South Canada that has buoys anyway. Wind hasn't been helpful either. Time to get the snomo's ready!

 

[thager]

As far as this handle control post goes I'm not as smart or as good as most on this site. However, a former skiing friend of mine came over, observed, then gave me some advice which has worked for me. 1. With ZO don't load the boat.

2. Push-slide the handle down the boat side hip at the 1st wake and hold which for me does all of the comments above.

 

[6balls]

Thager, this is goods stuff. The handle has to slide to the boat side hip after transition through the wakes. This results is the "big dawg" position at the second wash with handle (point of tension) low on the body. In the pics this means boat side arm bent, boat side elbow tight, away arm nearly straight and across the body while being outbound on inside edge. Keep the handle, short release time.

As for my bro's 1008 buoys in 8 fall days...I've known him a long time and still not quite sure how to digest that output.

[thager]

6balls, Easy answer. Your bro's an animal! For that matter so are you. I try to employ the K.IS.S. principle especially as I age since I can only think about a few things at one time and muscle with ZO has had little return value. I asked my bud why at the first wake and he replied that by the time you think of doing it, process it, and then do it you've already covered a distance over the water. That's where it works for me.