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ZO simulation

Hugh Nichols

By Hugh Nichols
in Skis Fins Bindings

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JC McCavit Proficient

JC McCavit

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I am one of the first 50, I can't wait till summer. I am hoping it makes it easier like ZO. I was never able to match my ZO scores when I skied behind my Stargazer system last season. It just felt like the PP Stargazer pulled harder all the way through the course. PP Stargazer didn't slow down at the buoy the same way even though times were perfect.
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MrJones Mentor

MrJones

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I am interested to see if this fixes the problem that StarGazer had with short set ups sites. We finally gave up on SG in our 2001 Nautique GT 40. Gates were either slow (with blazing 2nd segment) or blazing gates followed by a slow down.

 

If any of you guys had the same problem and this fixes it let us know! (Haven't watched the video yet. Sorry if they addressed this)

sj

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Ed_Obermeier Mentor

Ed_Obermeier

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I didn't think you guys were that new to this site. I've posted the fixs for your SG problems probably 3 - 4 times now at least.

 

@Horton, do you know how to dig out my previous posts on how to fix short setup etc issues with SG? Search function didn't go back far enough for me to find it, or I don't know how to properly search it perhaps. I can rewrite it but the previous word-for-word would be most accurate.

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PT Mike Collaborator

PT Mike

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@ Ed Obermeier Please do. I've been struggling w/ SG for two seasons now. Did the system reset, inverted tach and so on. I'm the only 34 MPH skier in the group so I usually bail on SG and run PP classic. Doesn't your fix have something to do with lowering the baseline? MJE's link didn't open for me. Thanks
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Ed_Obermeier Mentor

Ed_Obermeier

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I wish I could find the list I posted awhile back, it was about as to the point as I could word it. But I think this will do the trick. Note that this is specific to cable throttle SG equiped boats. I've been in several DBW SG boats and they don't have the same issues, all the DBW I've seen just settle right in without issue.

 

1) First thing is to MAKE SURE you don't overshoot your baseline rpm on pullup, especially on a short setup. If you overshoot the set baseline (too high rpm) it takes SG longer to settle back down to the right prm than it does to come up to it. Gauge where your throttle handle should end up when you pull up a skier and be consistant about taking the throttle handle to that same exact point every time (as much as possible) so your pullup's are consistant and you're not overthrottling the pullup.

 

2) How quickly your SG engages (locks in) determines how quickly it will settle in to correct speed, which is especially critical on short setups. I have found (and numerous others have confirmed) that LOWERING YOUR BASELINE RPM for each speed will help your SG engage more quickly. On my boat ('05 RLXI, 340 hp Monsoon engine) for 34 mph i.e. I've lowered the BASELINE RPM by about 300 rpm from the OPERATING RPM (in other words rpm the boat is running at at speed) so it's engaging at around 32.5 - 33 mph speed. Again, by not overthrottling on pull up and allowing the SG to engage sooner makes it a smooth transition to correct speed before you hit the entry gate. Overshoot and it's hunting around and won't settle properly before you hit the entry gate; that's where you often end up with a rodeo ride off three ball. Lowering the baseline doesn't affect anything except how early the system locks in. You want it to lock in before it gets up to speed but not too far ahead. The adjustment from lock in to correct speed should be seamless and if you don't over throttle it will be.

 

3) Inverting the tach signal probably needs to be at least tried if you're having issues. Several have reported that by simply inverting the tach signal they've fixed their issues without having to do anything else. Malibu's seem especially to need the tach signal inverted.

 

4) Once you've done all of the above you probably need to adjust your pre-gate, one ball, and 3-ball settings. On my '05 RLXI at 34.2 mph (55K) the pre-gate is 25 (SG manuals says it should be 80), one ball is 18, and three ball is 20 (all lower than default). You'll have to play with it a bit but once dialed in it's sweet. The analogy is that lowering the baseline's etc is like a binding move. Once you get the bindings (or rpm's in this case) in the right place, the fin tweaks (in this case adjusting the pregate/one ball/three ball settings) are to dial it in perfectly. Note that I run a 13 x 13 Acme CNC prop (stock for my boat is 13 x 12, I think...) so my numbers may not work exactly for your boat. My prop runs a bit lower rpm than the stock prop would.

 

BTW I leave my crew weight at I think 350 lbs. Seems to work well there. We usually have two plus gear in the boat while pulling a skier but with 3 in the boat pulling a skier I don't change it and it doesn't seem to matter. FWIW.

 

If anyone needs specifics on how to get to the correct menu's to reset stuff I can post that too. Let me know, happy to help but I figured this was enough for one post.

 

Cheers, Ed @ EZ-Slalom.com

 

 

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Ed_Obermeier Mentor

Ed_Obermeier

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This is a cheat sheet I put together a couple of years ago so I could find my way around the different menus. If you copy/paste it into a Word file it should print out on one page. I've printed it out and laminated it, I keep it in the boat at the drivers helm so I can refer to it as needed. Feel free to circulate it to whoever finds it useful.

 

Ed

 

 

STARGAZER OPERATING NOTES

 

Changing Screens/Modes – Use MENU button to scroll to ARROW ICON, press UP. This takes you to MODE screen (Slalom/Jump/Trick). Use MENU to select Mode, press DOWN to select settings within that Mode.

 

Slalom Modes – To select among available modes within Slalom mode highlight ARROW KEY and press UP. When SLALOM is highlighted press DOWN to access different Slalom Modes.

 

Crew Weight – To access, on main Slalom screen highlight SLALOM and press DOWN.

View All Ball Times after a pass – press DOWN key.

False Timer Trigger – Press UP to reset timer.

Tournament Mode – Press UP & Down keys at same time to enter or exit this mode.

Kx Settings – Normal is default, to firm up pull select + or ++, to soften up select -.

SUBMENU SCREEN – To access submenu screen from any Mode press MENU and UP together.

 

PRE-GATE/1-BALL/3-BALL ADJUSTMENTS – In GPS SLALOM mode press ON/OFF and UP at the same time to access.

- PRE-GATE SETTING– Controls speed of boat approaching course. If 1-ball times are slow INCREASE Pre-Gate value; if fast reduce this setting. Default setting is 70. Tweak this value first before tweaking 1-ball and 3-ball settings. Adjust 10 points at a time.

- BALL ONE TIME – Controls 1-ball time and affects 3-ball time as well. If Ball One times are still slow after adjusting Pre-Gate settings increase this value 3-4 points at a time. Default setting is 22.

- BALL THREE TIME – Adjusts 3-ball time. A higher setting speeds up boat, lower setting slows down boat. Adjust 3-4 points at a time. Default setting is 18.

 

Manually Adjust Baselines – Must be in SLALOM CAL mode. Highlight ARROW KEY, press DOWN to access screen, MENU to scroll within screen.

 

Quick Calibrate – In SLALOM CAL mode. Enter set speed and crew weight, drive up to set speed, system engages. Start timing with magnet or hand timer. If you get “OK” time for pass highlight ARROW KEY, press DOWN to access “Quick Calibrate” screen. In this screen press UP to perform calibration. System will confirm “RPM and Speedo Calibrated”. In this screen you can use MENU to scroll around to “Baseline” to manually adjust baseline RPM setting.

 

CAPTURE MODE Calibration – In SLALOM CAL mode highlight SLALOM and press UP. At top of submenu you will see “TIMED” which means you will calibrate using magnetic timing or the hand timer. Press UP to change to CAPTURE. Next select your speed, drive up and engage system. Once engaged use MENU key to highlight CAPTURE. At this point both SLALOM and CAPTURE will be highlighted. Once system reaches correct speed press UP to capture that RPM setting. System will give two quick beeps to confirm it has captured the correct RPM setting. Repeat process for each speed. Works better if your baseline is close to begin with.

 

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ctsmith Community Regular

ctsmith

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Ed, I know you've already taken the time to post it but I think this may be it (I did save it :) )

 

Disclaimer - this stuff works with my own boat and a few others I'm aware of. Don't know why it wouldn't work for most but maybe it doesn't.

 

Cable throttle boats - 1) don't over throttle on pull up. Find a mark to take the throttle handle to that it doesn't over throttle, and take it to the same point everytime (consistant pullups and system lock-on's). 2) lower the baseline rpm so it locks in earlier and thus settles in quicker. Around 200 rpm lower than the actual operating rpm for each speed setting works for me. 3) Try switching the tach signal input from Normal to Inverted if you haven't already. Some boats need that, some don't. Strange but important. I've seen boats fixed just by changing the tach signal to Inverted. 4) You gotta play with the background settings to tweak it in. I.e. at 34.2 Normal weight setting, my PG setting is 25, manual recommends 80 for a Malibu. Stated another way, getting the system to lock-on at the proper rpm so it settles in more quickly is a binding move, gotta find the sweet spot where it works best. The background settings, especially the Pre Gate setting, are the fin tweaks.

 

If it's surging at three ball, in my own experience the most likely cause is that the system locked on late at too high an rpm (making the speed fast), had to make too large an adjustment lowering the rpm to adjust speed before the entry gate making it come into the course slow or slowing down at least, then once in the course still hasn't settled properly (slow 3 ball time) so has to surge at 3 to make up the difference in the second half of the course. Making every pass potentially a frustrating circus ride. Been there. May not be your exact issue but this seems to be fairly common when the system lock-on point isn't dialed in. FWIW. Occasionally mine will just freak out and take off at 3 for no apparent reason but if/when that happens it's once in a blue moon, not every set etc.

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ctsmith Community Regular

ctsmith

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Will the zbox make the boat any easier to drive, as far as engaging the system with the throttle? If it makes it easier for wife to produce consistent pulls I would purchase one.

 

Thats my question as well, and for the exact same reason. If so, I'm all in.

 

 

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skihart Proficient

skihart

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I hope it's great, time will tell. They did email me back and say that it is pretty dialed in, but if any tweaks are needed they would be available immediately and free of charge to all who purchased the system. In other words you shouldn't have to worry about buying the first version out there. They also mentioned that they forsee another production run in the near future due to the initial response! You guys have obviously been busy buying up the first 50 units!!
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