Senior drivers

[Double7s]

I believe that when I practice all summer and ski an event, that I want to ski my best and all competitors to do the same. With ZO, it has taken part of the human factor out but still leaves how to manage the wheel. I would expect if I had a senior driver, I have the eliminated one reason for me not to preform at my best.

To be a good driver , like skiing you need to practice. If you have not been practicing pulling a skier short line than how can you expect to be a good driver? Just because you have been a senior driver since before perfect pass and you pulled Dick Pope Jr. doesn't make you a good driver today.

I appreciate all the years of dedication and current involvement, but some drivers before they offer to get in the boat they need to ask themselves am I prepared to give every skier an opportunity to ski a PB?

This does not apply to all seniors!

[jRoe]

I totally agree. Would be nice if there was a way to rate drivers...... say if we could track the best driver's based on their driving bouy count! That's the guy I want to ski behind

[jdarwin]

@jRoe - actually, there is a review procedure in place. As a senior (and, I believe regular), we have to submit boat path video to our regional driver's rep each year. It's up to the regional rep to "police" the quality of drivers. If you have an issue with the driving you receive, I would encourage you to voice those concerns to your regional representative.

[Double7s]

For state, regionals, and nationals, a driver should qualify basted on tournaments they have driven that year. It should be a privilege to drive the higher level events.

I have had assistant drivers steer better that a senior.

[gjohnson]

I think most skiers know who the good drivers are in their own region. But I know the best drivers don't necessarily pull Regionals. Last year one of the best drivers, @BradB - slalom only, sat on his dock and watched while a few less skilled drivers pulled skiers in his backyard. Since he only has a slalom rating, he can't drive in the Regional Tournament. What a bunch of bureaucratic BS that rule is.

[Mrs_MS]

@gjohnson......Agreed!!!!!

[clemsondave]

@jdarwin I have been a senior for a few years and have never heard of that. Great idea though.

 

I know several Senior drivers that NEVER pull anyone shorter than -22 except at 2-3 tournaments a year. Doesn't mean they can't do it, but it sure doesn't provide a lot of confidence!

 

At the tournaments where I am the Chief, I choose the drivers based on how good they are, not their rating.

[Double7s]

It's hard to tell someone that there skills are not good enough. That's why there should be a ranking for drivers. As a skier, I can judge how good I am by looking at my ranking. I don't need anyone to tell me. If a senior driver never gets a chance to pull short line there are enough around to get the opportunity.

 

[The_MS]

New boat path video program to be used a MW regionals this year. I have seen it and it looks like it will be a good tool. You can look at your boat path from your I phone after each pass.

[T8skier]

I have been to class c tourneys and know the level of driving might not be the best. If I can go short behind them, I can do it from anyone. When it gets to regionals/nationals I don't care if they are an assistant driver, I just want a good pull!

[ForrestGump]

At our tournaments, we put the most capable drivers pulling the groups who need the most capable drivers. We've had a Sr driver show up needing to get a credit and we put him pulling kids becauce our feeling is that if you can't put yourself behind the wheel enough to easily keep your rating, then we don't want you behind the wheel for our shortline skiers who are paying us to provide them a good pull. Driving isn't a right, it's something you have to practice.

[Double7s]

It's hard to do, but the way to weed out bad drivers is don't let the drive a tourney. No credits no rating.

[jRoe]

Real sad when we are having SR drivers pulling kids and LL skiers just to keep their rating ...yea Sr. have to send a video in each year to stay current but driving is a skill developed by driving short liners...not by a fuzzy video sent in. Again it would be nice to have rating for drivers based on results.

[ForrestGump]

@jRoe It absolutely is sad. I'm a regular now and I drove 16 tournaments in ski year 2011 as an asst. So why are seniors struggling to get credits? I would have gladly let someone take a few of those rounds had they shown up at the lake.

[MrJones]

By far I think the biggest mistake is not allowing single event drivers to pull Regionals/Nationals. I understand that it is nice to reward drivers who give the time and effort to travel to and pull 3 event tournaments to get their ratings, but it is definitely cutting a lot of the really high end drivers out of slalom.

 

A senior driver (slalom only) at Cedar Ridge pulled more 39s/41s in two days than a lot of guys will see in a year. Even so between rounds he was talking with the open and MM skiers about what they feel and need from him to make very short line feel better. That guy should be behind the wheel for the divisions (at Reg/Nats) that have skiers going into those line lengths.

[ForrestGump]

Also, the problem with requiring 3 event at Reg/Nats is that there are just not very many 3 event tournaments any longer. It's one thing to keep your sr rating in slalom. Keeping it in jump is tough in some regions.

[6balls]

The term senior made me think AARP. I only ski 12 or so tourney rounds/year and most often the drivers are great. There are a few older drivers, though, with LONG history's and contributions to the sport that are deserving of respect who jump in the driver's seat and eat the right hand or left hand gate balls.

Considering all they have given in terms of time/effort/driving/coaching over many, many years how do you deal with them when they want in the seat and some serious slalom skiing is about to happen? An entire round went disaster last year when the rope went purple due to the fact that one buoy was 36.5 off and the two was 39.5.

[ForrestGump]

@6balls Our chief driver handles that. He's taken drivers aside who wanted to drive, have asked them who they've been driving in practice and such, and then politely told them he needs them to get some good shortline practice before he puts them into a tournament situation with deep shortline skiers. A tournament is not the place for a driver to get 38 and shorter practice. Most understand that when presented in that way.

[6balls]

@shaneH it just takes the guts to address it. I'm not one to criticize anyone putting on a tourney as I'm very grateful for the effort and I realize it's not me. It's probably a tough conversation to have if these drivers have a long history and have pulled short-line for most of their lives. I'm sure it can be done with respect and I admire all who can pull it off for the betterment of the skiers.

[Horton]

3 event? I was once that guy. It is a bummer but it is not where we are in 2012.

[webbdawg99]

At our state tourney a couple years ago, I watched the Chief Driver jump in the boat between skiers to monitor this driver that was consistently getting bad times with Zero Off. 1 skier later, he pulled him out of the driver's seat and got behind the wheel himself. Long story short, the guy had never driven a Zero Off boat. I dont know if he wasn't engaging the system or wasn't setting the speed correctly.....but I was glad to see the Chief Driver take such swift action to correct the problem!

[liquid d]

gotta love skiing in Southern Region MM...great drivers every time I go to a tourney! Really gives you a positive attitude knowing you could pb every set out

[Double7s]

Of course they are going to put a good driver behind the wheel for MM.

[jdarwin]

Check out the front page of BOS - this guy makes or breaks drivers.

[sunperch]

I don't want a poor driver for the kids either. Driving with 75 ft of rope behind you at the ends of the lake and around turn islands is not as easy as driving with 40 of rope. Not to mention the impulsivity and forgetfulness of 5-6 y.o. can create a real safety concern. I have seen one of my kids being pulled into the rocks (she was the first kid being pulled following the driver pulling M4)and the other plant a fin in the mud and sommersault OTF when the driver sat him down too close to shore. The driver really has to pay attention to the kids as they are at times not as reliable as their parents wish they would be.

[thager]

I agree with comments above but It has to be pretty hard to tell a Senior he's not driving if he brought the Promo boat. Good luck there.

[Double7s]

That's why Regional/National driving should be performance based. Not a vote.

[ForrestGump]

@thager Do I expect to drive every tournament I take a boat to? Not at all. If I take a boat, I don't expect that I'm going to get to drive open and mm rated skiers(even though I do at times). Maybe it's that we have plenty of promo's around here(3 200s, 2 TXIs, 1 Carbon Pro, and 3 197s) so if someone pitched a bitch, we'd just invite someone else the next time.

[teammalibu]

When you drive for the dawg you better pay attention. He can pull you out of the course on his gate pullout.

[ForrestGump]

I needed rehab on left shoulder after driving the dawg through 39 at our lake.

[jipster43]

We're extremely blessed to have such awesome drivers in this relatively small community in Montana. But getting any type of driving credentials is nearly impossible.

[35 in the bag]

 

I'm sorry.....but correcting boat path is something that must be done. If you see a boat path tending toward one side and you do not respectfully report it ASAP, then IMO you are as much at fault as the driver. Maybe more so.

 

No driver wants to give a bad pull. Site lines are different from boat to boat. The driver cannot correct something that he/she does not know is a problem. Of course it's the boat judges’ job to direct corrections to boat path.......but they frequently don't do it. Plus it is usually much more precisely seen from end of course as the boat is coming at you. Look at it early and often to help out the drivers and skiers.

 

The key here is to be discrete. The whole world does not need to know that a boat path correct is being request and attempted. Even over a radio it can be quick and sort of in code...... " Boat you there"........"Yea" ......” Try moving towards driver side 4 to 6 inches, thanks".

 

Most often a driver has seen me at end course and asked via a hand signal how he looks (this is very discreet). I think this should be done for the first few skiers of every driver change.

 

JIII

 

[35 in the bag]

Horton,

 

FYI, I couldn't seem to make a correction.

 

JIII

[gjohnson]

Will we ever see a GPS tracking system to guide the boat down the course?

[unksskis]

Just use a 2 tower cable

[adam]

I held out as long as I could. Any driver is human and can make mistakes. Unfortunately, the skier is the ONLY one getting scored. The driver needs practice at the same rope lengths as each skier. As skiers, we have several ranking levels, but drivers only have assistant, regular, and senior. The driver ratings have absolutely no bearing on how good the drivers are. There are a lot of senior drivers that have no business behind the wheel for a 35 off and beyond skier. They need to pull skiers who actually like the pull at those rope lengths regularly. If it weren't for their own clubs tournaments, a lot of seniors would have a hard time maintaining their ratings because they aren't getting invited to other tournaments. Maybe if drivers had a ratings system similar to skiers, some of this would be solved. A driver would have to successfully pull so many skiers through 35 off to be able to drive a division where skiers are expected to run that rope lenght and so on. I know it probably won't happen, but for many years I've watched skiers that can run 35off back to back to back (I am one of them), but with certain senior drivers, they never run it in tournaments even in perfect conditions. After the tournament, I've about every excuse in the book. Oh our water is just slow and they are having trouble getting used to it, or they ran the same thing at the regionals or nationals, or they can't do it with a straight boat path, etc...

[LeonL]

@clemsondave in your response to @jdarwin you said you had "never heard of that". What are you in reference to? The submission of end course video? I really don't know how long that has been in place, but is clearly specified in the "AWSA Official's Program -- Quantitative Requirements for Advancement and Renewal". Senior slalom drivers must submit an end course video to their regional drivers' rep once a year. I agree that the rule requiring reg/nat drivers to be 3 event is asinine, but the chief drivers at these tournaments like that flexibility of knowing that they can assign any of their drivers to any lake/event w/o consideration of the drivers ratings. That could of course be remedied to some extent if the chief drivers would utilize the rule (6.02(d)) that states that "Event drivers shall be chosen by the Chief Driver from appointed drivers, or other Senior or Regular drivers, subject to the approval of the chief judge."

The prime reason that they do not do this is to cover their a**. If an appointed driver screws up the chief can say "I didn't pick him/her." On the other hand, if the CD picks someone from the crowd and then they screw up, the CD's a** is in the wringer.

[Jody_Seal]

Other then Regionals and Nationals. event drivers fall under this rule.

 

6.03:

Event drivers shall be chosen by the Chief Boat Driver from the Appointed

Drivers, or other Senior, Regular, or Assistant Drivers available, subject to the

approval of the Chief Judge. It is recommended that the Chief Boat Driver

select event drivers from the most capable drivers available.

 

so Now the chief driver is the goat!!!!

 

[Guest]

GOOD DRIVERS CAN MAKE YOUR LIFE GREAT! As Chief Driver of the 2012 Southern Regionals, my appointed drivers, (IMHO) were the "A" team of drivers.My thanks to Gordon West, Bobby Hill, Lyman Hardy and Greg Webb. Thanks to Chief Judge, Kirby Whetsel for taking the time to match up boat judges with the drivers. Thanks to Leon Leonard, Jerry Hargis, Supercharged Seal, Uncle Milty, Rudy Carder and the rest of the boat judges!

 

Ham Wallace

[webbdawg99]

@Oldskeer And thanks to YOU Ham! It's always nice to know you don't have to worry about the guy behind the wheel. Thanks for the great pulls!

[Dusty]

I heard last year that they were going to allow two, non-3 event senior slalom drivers at the Western Regionals. I don't know if it's happened or how it's worked out.

The rule Jody posted has been around a while. I'd say that mostly it works out that way. If more end course video was set up and available, I think most drivers would benefit. In the mean time, the boat judge is in charge and has the responsibility to correct boat path, and the authority to grant re-rides for out of tolerance boat paths- even in non-record tournaments... Communication between boat judge and driver is huge.

That said, giving a good pull is not just about the times and path. Two drivers with near perfect paths will rarely feel the same, or 'equal'. Steering input, drops, pull-ups, etc.- all affect the skier, and influence their confidence in the driver, and their skiing.

[pjirsa]

sorry if this offends anybody, I don't remember who it was. i watched a driver pull the #1 seed girls 3 slalom skier over the island at MW regionals last year.

[LeonL]

@pjirsa, I'm a little confused. If the boat didn't go over the island, could not the skier just followed in the boat path? @Dusty, having been a boat judge in more than a few tournament, the only time a boat judge has any reasonable opportunity to view the boat path is on a simulation pass. After that, if you're looking at the boat path you sure can't count buoys. In class C, or any time there is no end course camera, it is incumbent on the CD to find a spot and observe at least a few passes by each driver and make corrections as needed.

[gjohnson]

I didn't see the incident first hand, but was scoring at the time. The radio chatter was interesting. The turn islands are covered with rocks. The driver in question pulled the skier a little too close to a turn island. When the boat pulled her out of the water, her ski hit some of the rocks below the water surface.

[Than_Bogan]

I can't remember ever having a problem with any of the dozens of folks who have driven for me in tournaments over the years. When I ski well, I get a good score. When I don't, I don't. Can't really ask any more than that from a driver.

[E_T]

@gjohnson yes it can be done!

[Jody_Seal]

When I ski well I thank the driver! when I don't ski well The driver sucks! :)

 

 

Not really!!!

[Double7s]

I has a driver tell me after the round was over he thinks he was the reason I missed my 35.

A little late!

[ForrestGump]

All I know is that at a recent R tournament, there was a Sr 3 event driver who was bumping the boat guides on both sides and it was caught on end course video. Multiple rounds too.

[LeonL]

@ShaneH, This is a case for asking "where was the CD (or was he the offender?) when he should be watching the end course video?"